GeorgeS Posted April 19, 2008 Share #26 Posted April 19, 2008 Very Interesting, as they say !! Ok, I'm just guessing, trying to come up with a possible cause. So far, nothing. Other then a couple of tires, that are or were flawed off the assembly line in some way. OR, Maby they were Damaged in shipping, to the Retail outlet, from the Mfgr. If it were me, at this Point I would pull that Tire, and put on an Elite III or Elite II. (( sorry Avon Fans )) Ok, one other thought. I have heard of several 83, 84, maby 85 models that had problems with Cracked Frames. As I recall, cracks were located Near the Swing Arm bearings. There are postings about this someplace on this web site. Squeez, do you remember this ?? Is it possible that this might be involved in this particular problem ?? Just a thought. I'm just guessing, don't anybody throw anything at me ----- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted April 19, 2008 Share #27 Posted April 19, 2008 If I'm not mistaken the '83 was the one with the majority of the frame issues. I dont believe that would be an issue...but it's a good thing to bring up. I'm sure this problem will work itself out, I really dont see the tires being the main culprit here. If there was a flaw in the workmanship I would think that the issue would rear it's head at slower speeds and progressively get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeeze Posted April 19, 2008 Share #28 Posted April 19, 2008 Yes i remember the Frame Issues, but this is mostly on '83 Bikes, maybe early '84 are made the same Way. But i don't think the Frame is an Issue here. As a Matter of Fact, on all these Bikes, be it 1Gen or Vmax all Issues tend to Disappear when a Passenger is in the back. This is caused by various Reasons and no need to speculate all these Possiblities at this Point. Let's wait what both say after riding Solo again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozark Posted April 19, 2008 Share #29 Posted April 19, 2008 I have Venoms on my '88 and I love them. Didn't like them at first though. Turned out to be tire pressure. There was a link here a year or two ago with lots of posts to it about tire pressures. I'm getting old, so I don't remember the specifics, but once I adjusted the tire pressure all the wobble went away and the bike handles like a dream. That's a cheap thing to check out. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone14S Posted April 19, 2008 Share #30 Posted April 19, 2008 I have checked all the bolts and what have you not. I have never had this problem with the Dunlop tires that where not the bike. This problem came up when I put the Avons on, both front and rear at the same time. I have been playing with the tire presure and shock setting and it seemed to help a bit. I plan on just getting some miles on them and see what happens. I also notice that when I put may feet out on the highway pegs that the bike becomes more stable. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeeze Posted April 19, 2008 Share #31 Posted April 19, 2008 ... I also notice that when I put may feet out on the highway pegs that the bike becomes more stable. Kurt That's normal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted April 19, 2008 Share #32 Posted April 19, 2008 I know that when I put the Avons on my 83 and did a 100mph run, it was scary. I was running 50psi with the tire hot and reduced it to mid 40's hot. It was also interesting that Richard had just put Avons on his later model 1st gen and when we were talking about the Avons, we were both having the same symptoms. I know there are several on here that have stated that their Avons handle great at speed, but there have also been many on here that have expressed concern with the Avons at speed. I have strengthened my frame with extra bracing. I have new front and rear wheel bearings. My swing arm bearings have been cleaned and re-greased and are snug. My rear suspension shock link has grease fittings installed and I keep them greased. I still feel there is something unique to the 1st gen and Avons. RandyA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigaWhiskey Posted April 19, 2008 Share #33 Posted April 19, 2008 Could it be a particular model Avon? I have read a few posts concerning this but do not recall what model or sizes they were. Everyone just says Avon. It would be interesting if some type of compilation can be put together to come up with some kind of factor. Bike model/year, Avon model and size, tire pressures, weights of rider(s) and baggage with location, trunk/saddlebag type, spoiler option added and type, suspension mods (progressives), spacer used and size in the front (for the progressives), bike mods (solid engine mounts) and so on. Maybe we can find a common denominator or few solutions to resolve this long standing issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted April 19, 2008 Share #34 Posted April 19, 2008 You might be right GW I know that many of the Michigan crew run the Avon Venom's, which when I refer to Avons that is what I am talking about. I have never heard any of them claim to have this problem, so it's surprising to hear that obviously others have run into this issue. Perhaps there is more of a break in period with them for some. Another thing I noticed is them saying about it subsiding with a passenger on the bike. Now I'm not a little guy at almost 300 lbs, I know I can safely say that I outweigh Carl alone and Robin and Wayne combined. Could be that it's a weight issue on the rear until it breaks in.....I dont know. This one is really turning out to be a head scratcher, I'll be interested if we can see it through and come up with a decent solution. After all....this is why this site exsists right you know besides eating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted April 19, 2008 Share #35 Posted April 19, 2008 last year at vogel i talked about the same thing it happend at about 80 on the speed-o , i do not run avons , i use kendas , when i got home and started playing with the pressure on the back tire , dropped from 40 to 37 cold and removed the front chin it stopped doing it i have run at 105 now with no woddle plus when i use the back rest and have my big size 12s on the highway pegs , the bike handles better . pulling a heavy trailer with 37 in the rear tire is great . i have tried as low as 34 in the rear , high speed was ok but low slow speed less than 55 sucked . so it is not just a avon thing , and i think Buddy had the same problem with kendas and he went back to avons ? Thom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard765 Posted April 20, 2008 Share #36 Posted April 20, 2008 Here we go with an update: I now have a little over 1100 Kms on these new tires. Was out all day today but riding 2 up and not fast enough. Loved the way the bike handled and rode. Last night had high speed runs two up but passengers were heavier than my wife (Robin) and no sign of a problem. When I got home tonight I dropped Robin off and took it out for a spin solo. The wobble is still there and very scary at 140 Kms. Sure hope we can figure this out. Still waiting to see how Carl makes out after the rebalance. Does anyone know if the amount of air in the shocks will make a difference? Maybe there is too much air in the tires. The Avons have a 100 lb higher rating than other tires so maybe when I'm solo (under 200 lbs) I should have less air in the tires?? Maybe I'll try that tomorrow after church if it's not raining. Wayne Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share #37 Posted April 20, 2008 Well finally got my solo ride in last night at 10:30. Ran out to get gas, shock pressure on low, tire at 42, tire rebalanced with only 25 gr of weight, not 80. On the way out not a good thing at all, got up to 120 and had to bring it down to stay calm. Filled up with gas, pushed shock to med. and rode home, at 120 I was ready to jump off, but held on and slowed 'er down to 90 before things were back to normal. Next visit is to the tire dealer\mechanic to have his input. Have Avons for the last two years and had no issues so I'm not blaming the manufacturer, maybe it's just a bad tire, maybe something else. The investigation continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share #38 Posted September 10, 2008 So now an update: Changed the Avons to Dunlop Elite II, no differnce Changed the steering head bearings and adjusted 2X, no change Thought to replace the front wheel bearings next, haven't done that yet. Lowered the rear shock to less than 4 and went for a ride, got up to 130 with little difficulty, the adjusted the shock damper to #1 from #4 and all seems to be pretty smooth so far. I am now the proud possessor of 3 Avon tires, 2 rear and one front with very litte to no wear. I also have not been served well by Avon and am not even a little bit impressed with their Canadian rep, who doesn't seem to be able to use a phone or email. Their American rep was most helpful but had to pass me on to the Canadian rep, so I'm not a happy camper with their service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradT Posted September 10, 2008 Share #39 Posted September 10, 2008 I also have not been served well by Avon and am not even a little bit impressed with their Canadian rep, who doesn't seem to be able to use a phone or email. Their American rep was most helpful but had to pass me on to the Canadian rep, so I'm not a happy camper with their service. You may want to contact the US person again, advise the lack of response and ask for assistance. Occasionaly the Cdns have a boss in the states, who would not be impressed. Or he/she may be advise whom to contact at a factory/head office level. Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestarmedic Posted September 10, 2008 Share #40 Posted September 10, 2008 Marcarl- If you have spotted a couple of my posts I got a death wobble last weekend. I am running Continentals. Had about 800 miles on them at the time. All new bearings front and rear. Balanced front and rear. Pressure at 35psi front and rear. Hit once but could not reproduce later. I think I got a wind shear coming around a semi. However, what contributed on the bike is my question. Going after the steer bearings next. Going to put in tapered bearings and the V-Max aluminum washer instead of the rubber. Also going to check the handlebars at the rubber bushings. My swingarm seemed good but I will recheck the adjuster. Also going to check wheel runout front and rear mounted on the bike. The only thing I can notice is a very slight single wiggle from wind buffeting near a semi. That seems to be pretty normal. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigaWhiskey Posted September 10, 2008 Share #41 Posted September 10, 2008 Dude, what is the story on your motor mounts. Lot of dude in me tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradT Posted September 10, 2008 Share #42 Posted September 10, 2008 Dude, what is the story on your motor mounts. Lot of dude in me tonight! Hey Dude, I think Carls are stock but I know the other bike with the problem is solid engine mounts from Buckeye Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigaWhiskey Posted September 10, 2008 Share #43 Posted September 10, 2008 (edited) 95% of my warble vanished with all 6 new solid mounts. Edited September 10, 2008 by GigaWhiskey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyHorse Posted September 10, 2008 Share #44 Posted September 10, 2008 I think what I was wondering is tire pressure maybe? The dealer thought I was nuts to want the pressure at max cold as noted on the sidewall. They recommended 36 lbs (yamaha specs) and I've always run the cold max pressure noted on the sidewall on any tire I've used. I run max pressure both tires (Avons) no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted September 10, 2008 Share #45 Posted September 10, 2008 Funny, the original description of the "waddle" sounds like somebody's version of how a car tire felt in the back, walking back and forth! So Carl, the problem started from scratch when changed tires in April, but has now persisted to another tire? Weird. What about the front tire? Although normally front tire problems cause the mid-speed "wobble" or shake. Reduced air in rear shock has positive effect - this makes sense because it lowers the back end. So does a passenger. This increases the rake angle and trail of the forks which contribute to stability but make handling slower. You rarely hear of weaves and wobbles (at least I've not heard of it) on cruisers because their front ends are raked out more. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigaWhiskey Posted September 10, 2008 Share #46 Posted September 10, 2008 Colored Solid Motor Mounts http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Vmax-Solid-Motor-Mounts:--Yellow,-Red,-Green-or-Purple_W0QQitemZ140265258422QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20080909?IMSfp=TL080909145r10412 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyHorse Posted September 11, 2008 Share #47 Posted September 11, 2008 Marcarl- If you have spotted a couple of my posts I got a death wobble last weekend. I am running Continentals. Had about 800 miles on them at the time. All new bearings front and rear. Balanced front and rear. Pressure at 35psi front and rear. Hit once but could not reproduce later. I think I got a wind shear coming around a semi. However, what contributed on the bike is my question. Going after the steer bearings next. Going to put in tapered bearings and the V-Max aluminum washer instead of the rubber. Also going to check the handlebars at the rubber bushings. My swingarm seemed good but I will recheck the adjuster. Also going to check wheel runout front and rear mounted on the bike. The only thing I can notice is a very slight single wiggle from wind buffeting near a semi. That seems to be pretty normal. JB Wheres this swing arm adjuster at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Posted September 11, 2008 Share #48 Posted September 11, 2008 Wheres this swing arm adjuster at? Behind the mounting plate for the passenger footpegs & mufflers. These are the swingarm bearing locations. Left side 30mm socket (1 & 3/16"), about 75 Ft Lbs, right side 14mm allen key, about 4 Ft Lbs (just barely snug). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyHorse Posted September 12, 2008 Share #49 Posted September 12, 2008 Behind the mounting plate for the passenger footpegs & mufflers. These are the swingarm bearing locations. Left side 30mm socket (1 & 3/16"), about 75 Ft Lbs, right side 14mm allen key, about 4 Ft Lbs (just barely snug). Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeeze Posted September 13, 2008 Share #50 Posted September 13, 2008 Behind the mounting plate for the passenger footpegs & mufflers. These are the swingarm bearing locations. Left side 30mm socket (1 & 3/16"), about 75 Ft Lbs, right side 14mm allen key, about 4 Ft Lbs (just barely snug). Hold the Swingram Bolt on the right Side with the Allen Head Key or Wrench in Place while thightening the Lock Nut of the Bolt with 75 FtLbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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