I need to change out my bad Stator

[Geobob]

Ok this thread seams to be close to my question.  I am thinking of replacing my R/R and stator.  I am going to guess the Shindengen Mosfet FH012AA is what guys have found to work best and a High Output Stator from Rick's Electornics.

Fist question is I have done the typical search for the R/R and seen one for $22.99 and one for $129.95 (it is listed as FH020AA and says it Genuine).  So the obvious question is are we looking at two identical parts or not.

The second question is the stator cost.  Again on Ebay you can find one listed for $50.85 or $56.24 with the gasket.  The one on Parts Giant sells for $147.95.  Earl tells me they stopped making the High Outputs units due to heat build up but I did just see a post on Racing Moto's page under the Ricks unit suggesting it will put out 480 watts or 40-45 amps calling the unit "a higher output stator"

Has anyone tried these lower cost items and if so how did they work out.

[WIZ]

I tried the high output stator several years ago and will never use it again. I pull the cover off after only about 12,000 miles on it and it was already burnt half way up the stator from the heat. I got a shindengen rectifier from http://roadstercycle.com/ and matched it with a stock stator, been running this set-up for about 45,000 miles with no issues. I have an volt meter installed and with this set-up I run with 14.2 volts consistently. I ordered the  The Super Mosfet Kit FH020AA this kit only uses the three stator wires coming to the rectifier and includes a harness that goes directly to the battery, make sure if you order it you get a good measurement of the length needed to reach your battery once you route the wires. To answer your question about whether they are the same units or not, they are not. The ones for $22.99 is a cheap knockoff unit.

 

Ron

[Geobob]

Thank Wiz, so you found a used or new stock stator or did you have your old one to put back in.  Speaking of putting stock parts back in.  I am about to put my stock clutch back into my Victory Vision because it was working fine but had 85k on it.  I had to get into the cover so I thought why not put the barnett pack it.  Well the dam thing in slipping.  Turns out that others have experienced the same issue.

I just read about R/R on roadstercycle site and feel convinced the FH020AA is the way to go and his kit is looks like a good idea. 

Now what about that stator?

 

 

[WIZ]

I was swapping out motors when I found the high output stator was burned. The motor that I was installing in the bike had a stator that looked new when I pulled the cover so I just stuck with it.

 

Ron

[Geobob]

Anyone know if you need the adapter plate that Jack sells with the Mosfet Rgulator for the early model Ventures

 

[Squidley]

On 10/23/2020 at 2:09 PM, Geobob said:

Ok this thread seams to be close to my question.  I am thinking of replacing my R/R and stator.  I am going to guess the Shindengen Mosfet FH012AA is what guys have found to work best and a High Output Stator from Rick's Electornics.

Fist question is I have done the typical search for the R/R and seen one for $22.99 and one for $129.95 (it is listed as FH020AA and says it Genuine).  So the obvious question is are we looking at two identical parts or not.

The second question is the stator cost.  Again on Ebay you can find one listed for $50.85 or $56.24 with the gasket.  The one on Parts Giant sells for $147.95.  Neither suggests High Output and Earl tells me they stopped making the High Outputs units due to heat build up.

Has anyone tried these lower cost items and if so how did they work out.

As a general rule of thumb, you get what you pay for. Ricks performance sells a decent performance stator, slightly higher output. There's not enough room in the case to put a HO stator as you need more windings to accomplish that. Personally I would go with the factory Yamaha reg/rec as it does just fine. One of the main culprits of the reg/rec failing is a dirty connector where it plugs into the wire harness. If the ground wire is dirty it wont shunt properly and builds up heat snd melts the connecter causing the unit to fail. I always use dielectric grease in those types of connections to help seal them keeping the corrosion away. Hope this helps you out a bit.

[Geobob]

I did  ended up ordering both the stator and the regulator.  I put the stator in first since it looks like less work than getting to the regulator.  I can probable test run the new regulator with out actually installing where it belongs.  Might be hanging off the bike or on the back seat but it should make for some interesting data.  I have tired cleanup the contacts from the stator to the regulator and I tested the regulator.  I can't say I remember testing the ground wire or even if there is one to be honest.  I will have to look into that.  i suppose before I put on the stator I should try taking the connector out all together the stator did show a low voltage while running when I tested each of the leads by pairs so I do think the stator is seen its better days

[Geobob]

I dug into my stater replacement tonight and learned a few things.  The link to the old tech post http://www.venturers.org/Tech_Library/index.php?action=article&cat_id=001007&id=415 was helpful but need a few notes attached.  First off the wires are now so hard that casing just cracked and were really difficult to get out from behind the middle gear cover.  It is also a mess back there so I am now waiting for a gasket since I think the cover needs to come off just to get the two lead routed properly and the area cleaned and inspected.  My oil leak could be coming from someplace back there or one of the rubber grommets that the wires leave the stater cover through.

Getting the stater cover off after all the bolts are removed was no simple task.  I ended up wedging a screw driver behind the engine stay that leads from the front to the back.  That put it right up against the block.  I then took a tire iron and pried out on the upper rear both housing that has a small tab on it.  It is the only place you can do this.  I took a hair drier to it because my heat gun probably burned out years ago and the torch seemed like a bad idea. 

With the middle gear cover off the wires will be free and the stater cover should come off easier.  I had all the gears fall out into the oil pan along with one of the pins.  I also found the gear shift lever just floating around so putting it back in place should be easier with the middle gear cover removed

So what ever the other wires are coming out of the cover they are pretty stiff.  I think the six pin plug goes to the Pickup Unit.  The plug looked like it should be replaced (any suggestions where to buy good gang plugs.  There seem to be a bunch out there.

So any suggestions on where to order a gasket.  I think I have used "Cheap Cycle Parts"  Any better ideas.  

Last thing is that if you free up the wires by taking the middle gear cover off first it will make pulling the stater cover off easier and maybe some of the gears will stay in place.  I am pretty sure I got them back where they belong.

Forgot the most important point was the stater looked burnt if you ask me.

Stay tuned

 

[Geobob]

Really, three weeks for delivery of a gasket and a washer.  Give me a break.  Cheap Cycle Parts should change the name to slow cycle parts.  Anyone know of a better place to order parts.  I will go to my local shop or make my own before willing waiting for delivery between 12/1 and 12/9.  That is just ridiculous.  And on top of that the shipping was more than the cost of the parts. 

[RDawson]

Do they have them in stock? Reason I ask I stopped in at the local Kawi shop this week and their showroom is empty. He told me they can’t get new units because the Covid crap has so much shut down they can’t get parts to finish building new units. They are more an off-road business with a few road bikes, but they’re almost dead in the water without new equipment coming in. 

[Flyinfool]

Yes that stator looks pretty well toasted.

It is a very common oil leak point where the 3 stator wires go thru the rubber grommet. I did not even think it was possible to get the stator cover off without removing the middle gear cover first.

The stator cover is a bit hard to pull off, the magnets in the flywheel are working real hard to hold it on. Careful putting it back on, those same magnets will try to slam it home, even if your finger is still in the way.

Watch which way you put the shift linkage back together, Many do it wrong and then you have to take it all apart again to do it right.

Make sure to use the copper washer on the bottom bolt of the middle gear cover or it WILL leak oil from that bolt.

Check with @skydoc_17 for parts and advice.

 

[Geobob]

Well as far as putting the shift linkage back together I assume you are talking about the shift shaft down at the bottom left.  Once the case cover is off it is just flopping around and it is not really apparent how it is supposed to sit.  I am hoping with the middle gear cover off it will be more obvious how that part goes back together.   As far as the little gears go.  Again that is a guess since there is little in the shop manual that I can see.  I looked at the gears and the shafts and the shafts can only go in their respective holes as well as the gears.  The one looks like it can go one either way while the other two are machined and the small one has a lip on one side.  If you don't have it on right it will not line up with the gear next to it.  The larger one that shaft also looks the same on both sides.  

I did a little looking on line and it does appear simple enough to make my own gasket for that middle gear.

I watched a video on replacing the primary cover on a victory vision and the recommendation was to get some threaded stock, cut 3 inch lengths and thread them into the block.  Then slide the cover on to them and when the magnet sucks it down it will be centered on the threaded stock.  Take the threaded stock out and put the bolts in.  Worked great.  I know because I had to do it three times.  First time was when I put the new clutch in.  The clutch slipped and had to take the Barnett out and put the stock back in.  The third was because I did not have the rubber grommet from the stater wire seated properly.   

So anyone have a recommended source for block connectors.  The connector for the pickup coils looks questionable. 

[Flyinfool]

I can not help with a a source for the connectors.

With the rubber block for the wires, there is a process for getting a leak free install.

Use lots of black RTV on the rubber block where it meets the metal AND where it meets the wires. The wires have a cloth insulation on them, that cloth will wick oil out of the engine.

Rum the RTV into the cloth for about an inch and then pull the wires thru the rummer for about an inch, now rub RTV into the wires on the other side and pull the wires back to their original position, this will saturate the fibers and pull some into the hole in the rubber block.

[Geobob]

I was thinking about how to goop them up.  I like the plan and the recommendation of black RTV.  I pulled the middle gear cover off tonight and it is rather messy behind it or under it.  It could be from the lower drain bolt or the wires coming out of the Stater cover.  The area is enclosed so oil could make a big mess in there regardless of where it is coming from.  There is the gear position sensor in there and it looks to be covered with oil and grim along with everything else under there.

I also started polishing up the covers.  I assume there is a clear coat of paint on them that needs to be sanded off or chemically pealed.  Any experience with this other than 220 grit sand paper.

[Geobob]

Latest issue:  All the dam screws came out with the impact driver and heat gun.  Not sure if the heat gun is helping.  I know there was discussion regarding how hot you need to get the parts to get locktight to melt.  Will a heat gun do it or do I need to break out the oxy acetylene torch.  I attached some photos.  The one shows the last screw all boogered up.  It is actually out about three turns.  I tried heating it on the back side (see second photo) but I am now worried about twisting it off.  Maybe that would not be so bad since then I could removed the old stater and get heat right on the bolt and hole it is stuck in.  Humm something to think about.  At this point I can try drilling but I don't think that will help much.  So how hot can I get the aluminum case with the torch.  I can get some long nose vice grips on the screw head but it still feels very very tight.  Any ideas.

[RDawson]

In That situation I’d lay a nut on top of that bolt and using a mig weld inside the nut to the bolt. Let it cool just long enough for the weld to harden, maybe 5-10 seconds and back it out with a socket. 

[cowpuc]

4 hours ago, RDawson said:

In That situation I’d lay a nut on top of that bolt and using a mig weld inside the nut to the bolt. Let it cool just long enough for the weld to harden, maybe 5-10 seconds and back it out with a socket. 

Yeah,, I would definitely not focus the heat from a torch of any sort on directly on the aluminum if it were mine.. Aluminum is funny stuff as it likes to go fluid instantly at very low temps IMHO.  Instead, I would either use Corporal Newkirks approach or, if you did not have the room to weld it because of the lip of the oil splash tin being supported by that screw and/or a mig gun to work with I would probably try a hand held impact.. I would take a dremel tool or even a hacksaw blade and cut a flat blade screw driver slot to fit the screw driver bit for my hand held impact. Then I would take my oxy/ace torch, swap on a small brazing tip, get a nice cone flame on er, carefully heat the head of the screw in the center till I just started seeing cherry. Remove the flame, watch the screw lose cherry and insert the hand held bit.. I would start with light/sharp tapping on the screw while I held a good lefty loosy on the impact as it probably would not take much to back it out from there. I would also try tightening in back up some if it is backed out a few turns if it was stubborn. Sometimes running it back in a little will help loosen the threads.   I cant help but wonder if somone might have used Red locktight on a rebuild.. I have used Blue in that very spot for many many years and never really had an issue as long as I used my handheld impact to snap em loose when doing another swap.  

[Flyinfool]

Loctite lets go at around 400°F, A heat gun is more than hot enough A torch can easily destroy the cover if you are not super careful. Steel will start to glow long before it melts or even softens. Aluminum gives no such warning, it will go from fine to a liquid silvery puddle on the floor in a split second, no warning whatsoever. Unless you really know what you are doing and have a way to monitor the aluminum temperature keep all torches away from it. Even a good head gun CAN melt aluminum it you get real aggressive with it. But you almost have to try to melt AL with a heat gun.

As @cowpuc mentioned sometimes you have to go back in a bit before you can come out any further.

Soak it in penetrating oil for a while and then heat it up.

Worst case cut the head off the screw and that will let you remove the old stator, at this point it is easier to heat the screw boss to get the loctite to release and there will be a nice long screw to get a grip on with vice grips.

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Flyinfool

[Geobob]

The more I think about it, cutting off the head and pulling the old stater off is the way to go.  I can see the problem is the threads are well below the screw head so heating from above is probably doing very little to heat the area of the case where the bolt is threaded into.  Probably a big air gap.  Those screws are like 2 inches.  Ever other one came out tight but they did get better as they came out.  Not this one.  I think getting a couple of nuts on the remaining threads will give me something to turn once I get it warmed up.  I will keep you all updated.  

By the way I do think both covers will polish up nice once I get what ever clear coat is on there.  I worked on middle gear cover last night and it is ready for the buffing wheel.  I really wanted to get that stater off so I could get started on that cover.  Never expected to hit this road block.  I find myself telling the wife things like "so far so good, at least everything came apart"  Now I remember why I say that.  All it takes is one 30 year old fastener.  I am sure this part has never been apart since I bought the bike with only 1200 miles on in 1990.  It is an 88.

[Geobob]

Got to work tonight on those pesky bolts.  Cut the heads off and pulled the stater.  Took the heat gun to them for a good long time before they loosened up enough to turn out.  Simple job gone sideways.  Then spent an hour with the heat gun working the gasket off.  I have not had to do that in 30 years.  Nothing like a 30 year old gasket.

[Geobob]

Just thought I would post some before and after photos.  Sure wish I cleaned up this good.

[Geobob]

On 11/15/2020 at 12:00 PM, Flyinfool said:

I can not help with a a source for the connectors.

With the rubber block for the wires, there is a process for getting a leak free install.

Use lots of black RTV on the rubber block where it meets the metal AND where it meets the wires. The wires have a cloth insulation on them, that cloth will wick oil out of the engine.

Rum the RTV into the cloth for about an inch and then pull the wires thru the rummer for about an inch, now rub RTV into the wires on the other side and pull the wires back to their original position, this will saturate the fibers and pull some into the hole in the rubber block.

I have been cleaning up surfaces which was no easy task.  I suspect that a little remnant material on either surface is not going to result in a leak but I scraped and scrubbed down to as smooth and clean as I can get.  So the question is do I really need any gasket sealer on these to covers.  I put the primary cover back on my Vision without gasket sealer and it seem fine.   Anyone have experience with this that can chime in.  I am close to re-assembly.  I also pulled the two retaining screws and the voltage regulator/rectifier dropped right out, sort of.  Not sure if the new Mosfet will slide up in there without pulling the muffler.

I ordered a kit of electrical connectors off Ebay (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CDNTSLF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) if anyone is interested.  I also picked up a criping tool and removal tool.

Pulled the kickstand switch while I was in there today and cleaned it up.  I cannot see anything wrong with it and have no idea why it stopped working.  I think I will put a connector on the wires and plug it back it.  Right now they are cut and twisted together.  And yes I have ridden away from a stop several times with the kickstand down.  Not fun.   

[KayBur]

Yes, this is a very painstaking job. I purchased the DEWALT Mechanics Tools Kit and Socket Set especially for repairs. It helps a lot, and this set is much more convenient than buying everything one by one. Everything is there at once and it is convenient to store. Who is interested in such sets, just in case, I will leave a link with a review https://homemakerguide.com/best-socket-set/. I think this is a very useful article for those who have not yet acquired their own set of tools, but are planning to do so.

[Geobob]

Making progress.  I looked for a place for the new voltage regulate (Mosfet).  Won't go where the old one was and really did not look like under trunk was great.  I pulled both front fairing panels off (some plastic repairs were needed anyways) and I could not find any room there either.  Did not like the nose cowling either so I went looking around believe I found a good place for it.  I also am curious what the two holes with rubber plugs in them are for on the inside rear fender.  It worked out perfectly for the plate that came with the Mosfet and from what I can tell the whole thing will close back up with out any problems.  Not a great deal of air flow back there but neither would there have been inside the fairing.  We will have to see.  I also posted some photos of the refinishing of the passenger floor boards.  They had looked bad like the engine covers for years with the clear coat making impossible to refinish.  I got the paint remover out and cleaned them off and started sanding with the 220 girt.  What a pain.  Went to Harbor Freight and finally purchased a sand blasting box.  In 5 min I had the one cleaned up and took it to the buffer.  The other I had sanded with the 220 for maybe an hour or it seemed that way and it did not look great.  Polished both on the monster buffing arbor they both came out looking way better.  I am working on the plates.  I am going to try sand blasting followed by sand paper down to 600 grit.  I think it will be easier after sand blasting and they should shine up nicely.  

I don't plan on taking this bike apart every winter to clean it up but minor or major repairs seem to be making this an annual job.

By the way.  I have been waiting a long time for a gasket and wonder if there is not a better source.  I gave up on waiting for the middle gear cover gasket and used the one I made.  It was not pretty but I think it will work.  Don't let anyone tell you it is easy to make your own gaskets.  If you have to it can be done but I am going to order a clutch cover gasket and water pump gasket now.  Those covers are coming off sometime in the future when I get around to shining up that side.  You don't see much this motor but those are the parts that you do see.  I think cleaning them up will make a big ascetic impact.   

[Geobob]

I love and hate this bike.  I figured I do some winter maintenance since I had the bike up on the stand.  Pulled the rear wheel to see how my molly paste was holding up on the differential and this is what I found.  I don't think there was more than a few thousand miles on the grease since you can see from the tire with the screw in it (dam it) that I had it off recently to put the tire on.  Middle of last summer I think I put the new differential on since the old one was toast.  Greased it up with some of Honda's ridiculously expensive molly paste and this is what I get maybe 5 thousand mile later.  Something causing more heat build up than it should or something.  Both of these parts looked good when I put it back together.  I have cleaned them up and they don't look bad enough to need replacing.  Curious what others are finding.  Could this grease be the problem.  It was highly recommended.