Upper Cowling Photos Please!??

[syscrusher]

I'm putting my 1993 VR all back together right now but I'm confused about how certain parts are supposed to be assembled. My primary points of confusion are with the lower part of the upper cowling and the mirrors. I didn't take pics of mine like I had planned to when I was taking it apart and can't seem to find any on the site that just show a VR with all the side covers removed except the upper cowling. The parts fiche isn't really easy to understand where this area is concerned.

 

The mirrors look like they should be supported better than just mounting them on top of the ABS plastic covering the metal frame in that spot. It looks like it would be easy to crack the ABS by mounting a mirror there but I don't see any spacers spelled out in the arts fiche or anything.

 

This information on body plastics is sorely lacking here on the site, there is nothing in the read-only Tech Library section for First Gen. With the loss of some of the older photos from threads I was unable to find anything promising in a search of the First Gen Tech Talk area.

 

Please help out if you can?

[Prairiehammer]

I took a bunch of photos of the fairing on the 1991 because of all the places it was broken. I'm not sure if any will help you, but they are attached. As for the fairing mount at the mirrors, both mine were broken with missing chunks. I repaired both sides by adding 1/8" ABS pieces to fit and using ABS cement and fiberglass screening scraps, was able to repair to my satisfaction. There were no spacers.

Follows is a photo "dump" of all my fairing pics. Relevance is questionable for you, as most of these pics show "before", as in broken. I don't know what was holding the plastic on the bike!

 

Follows are some pics I took from the internet of various fairing attachment points that were not broken, just so I could approximate the proper shape and hole location for rebuilding mine. I also made cardboard templates to facilitate fabricating missing plastic. Hope some of this helps. But very possibly it does not.

[syscrusher]

Thanks! I think that did help, if only to make me feel better about the condition of my pieces. Egads!

So ABS must stand for Aged Brittle Stuff or something like that.

 

I see that it's next to impossible to find ABS black pipe at the big box hardware stores and Oatey sells a glue for joining ABS to PVC.

It appears that for plumbing anyway ABS just no longer has any application.

 

I'll come back here later and post a few pictures of what I ended up doing with the parts I was questioning about.

I have some vacuum hose that just fit the holes in the plastic for the mirrors and so I cut it just slightly taller than flush and I'm using these washer/spacers to protect the ABS, I hope. It does look like just having a screw in there has chewed those holes larger on mine and in some of your pics. I spent some time trying to repair and bolster my plastics this time using the Oatey black glue for ABS and scraps and then I needed to make pieces fit together again. I had also forgotten what the spacers and things were used for since I would have used more of them if I had them. I did buy small bags of stainless M5 & M6 that I replaced a lot of the existing hardware with and I added some SS washers here and there too.

 

Thanks Again!

[bongobobny]

I like using the 2 part ABS plastic epoxy that comes in the double barrel syringe myself, bonds perfect, and fills in missing areas and can be sanded and/or filed. Perfect for filling in where small pieces of the ABS has gone AWOL! I have also used cut up pieces from scrap fairing pieces to make up missing tabs, corners, etc. For cracks, take a dremel tool to the back side of the crack and make a "V" channel along the crack and fill with the epoxy. As long as you do not cut through to the other side with the "V" cut the crack will virtually disappear!

[syscrusher]

I like using the 2 part ABS plastic epoxy that comes in the double barrel syringe myself, bonds perfect, and fills in missing areas and can be sanded and/or filed. Perfect for filling in where small pieces of the ABS has gone AWOL! I have also used cut up pieces from scrap fairing pieces to make up missing tabs, corners, etc. For cracks, take a dremel tool to the back side of the crack and make a "V" channel along the crack and fill with the epoxy. As long as you do not cut through to the other side with the "V" cut the crack will virtually disappear!

 

I did see some of the cracks like you mention and I think that I wish I had prepared them the way you suggest. I exposed mine to acetone (on a rag) and tried to rub the cracked pieces back and forth to work acetone into the joint. I then put the Oatey's on the back of it and worked it a little more before leaving it to set up. I don't have full faith in my repairs and I'll bet yours are better. So far mine worked though.

 

One thing I did do is add ABS shavings to the Oatey's as I worked on things in order to thicken it. The downside of this of course is that it becomes less solvent and more filler, making it even more appropriate for your repair method on cracked pieces and much less so for my method.

 

I wish I could justify the $80 for a hot air plastics welding torch, what I've read and posted here tell me it's the best of all methods for bonding many types of plastics:

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?122809-An-Interesting-Read-on-Joining-Plastic-Parts

[Prairiehammer]

The preferred solvent for ABS is MEK. I've used it to fix cracks in which the parts are tightly closed. Just let the MEK wick into the crack. It is a chemical bond when done. Usually I follow up the MEK with an application of ABS cement.

 

Adding a little methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) to an opened ABS cement can will return it to it's original consistency. The added MEK replaces the evaporated solvent.

Dissolve ABS shards and shavings in MEK to make your own ABS cement.

One may purchase ABS sheets (I used 1/8" thick) on eBay. ABS rods are also available on eBay.

BTW: ABS cement will not adhere to polyethylene. This characteristic is useful when one is trying to solvent weld pieces of ABS in a jig and does not want the pieces adhering to the work surface. Aluminum foil self-adhesive tape is also useful for holding pieces in place until the solvent weld is complete. After the ABS is cured, the aluminum tape peels right off, leaving a smooth surface.

[camos]

The preferred solvent for ABS is MEK. I've used it to fix cracks in which the parts are tightly closed. Just let the MEK wick into the crack. It is a chemical bond when done. Usually I follow up the MEK with an application of ABS cement.Adding a little methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) to an opened ABS cement can will return it to it's original consistency. The added MEK replaces the evaporated solvent. Dissolve ABS shards and shavings in MEK to make your own ABS cement.

Along with the MEK mentioned, this is my basic repair kit. The only special part needed is the solvent applicator needle which makes wicking MEK directly into a crack very easy.

 

 

I did see some of the cracks like you mention and I think that I wish I had prepared them the way you suggest. I exposed mine to acetone (on a rag) and tried to rub the cracked pieces back and forth to work acetone into the joint. I then put the Oatey's on the back of it and worked it a little more before leaving it to set up. I don't have full faith in my repairs and I'll bet yours are better. So far mine worked though.

MEK is a far better solvent for ABS than acetone and far safer too. Acetone will dissolve most paints whereas MEK does not, at least the paint on our Ventures. It will of course dissolve the plastic behind the paint so it is wise to not be too sloppy.

 

One thing I did do is add ABS shavings to the Oatey's as I worked on things in order to thicken it. The downside of this of course is that it becomes less solvent and more filler

I don't use Oatey's, whatever it is, just MEK and add ABS scraps to make an appropriate paste or putty. The trick when using a fairly firm and relatively dry mix is to apply MEK to the surface to be bonded for a few (20-30) seconds then apply some MEK to the putty surface to be bonded then press into place.

[syscrusher]

Oatey's is plumbing glue for ABS black pipe. You can't buy the ABS pipe anymore but you can buy the glue.

I think it does contain some MEK, actually it's mostly MEK:

 

3. Composition/information on ingredients

Mixtures [TABLE=width: 500]

[TR]

[TD]Chemical Name[/TD]

[TD]CAS Number[/TD]

[TD]%

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Methyl ethyl ketone

[/TD]

[TD]78-93-3[/TD]

[TD]40-60[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]ABS Resin

[/TD]

[TD]9003-56-9[/TD]

[TD]30-40[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Acetone[/TD]

[TD]67-64-1[/TD]

[TD]10-20[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

2.41% Other components below reportable levels

*Designates that a specific chemical identity and/or percentage of composition has been withheld as a trade secret

[videoarizona]

The mirrors look like they should be supported better than just mounting them on top of the ABS plastic covering the metal frame in that spot. It looks like it would be easy to crack the ABS by mounting a mirror there but I don't see any spacers spelled out in the arts fiche or anything.

 

This information on body plastics is sorely lacking here on the site, there is nothing in the read-only Tech Library section for First Gen. With the loss of some of the older photos from threads I was unable to find anything promising in a search of the First Gen Tech Talk area.

 

Please help out if you can?

 

 

The mirrors mount through the plastic into a metal frame piece that has two holes with nuts welded on underside. It's a very strong mount. You can see the two holes and metal frame on Kevin's first couple of pics.

If you find old threads with missing pics, please let our Boss know. He will find the pics and restore the links.

[camos]

You can't buy the ABS pipe anymore but you can buy the glue.

When did that happen and what has replaced it for drain pipe? Black ABS plumbing pipes and fittings are still available in the outback of Canada.

 

I think it does contain some MEK, actually it's mostly MEK:

Including acetone in the mix might be a negative when it comes to paint degradation and since MEK is all that is necessary it would come down to availability and cost.

[syscrusher]

When did that happen and what has replaced it for drain pipe? Black ABS plumbing pipes and fittings are still available in the outback of Canada.

 

Including acetone in the mix might be a negative when it comes to paint degradation and since MEK is all that is necessary it would come down to availability and cost.

 

I'm not a plumbing expert at all but I think one is just expected to use PVC for all plastic applications other than PEX. The black ABS pipe can't be used for pressure carrying applications and really has no advantages over PVC as I understand it and so it just doesn't have a spot on the shelves.

[camos]

I'm not a plumbing expert at all but I think one is just expected to use PVC for all plastic applications other than PEX. The black ABS pipe can't be used for pressure carrying applications and really has no advantages over PVC as I understand it and so it just doesn't have a spot on the shelves.

ABS plumbing is used for drainage systems, not pressure systems. For example, the drain from sinks and toilets as well as the perimeter drains around a house. ABS is quite a bit less expensive than PVC and it is rigid so it will maintain the necessary flow characteristics that flexible tubing does not do naturally.

 

I have a couple 12" x 2" scraps of ABS pipe and a few used elbows left over from a renovation that get chopped up and added to my MEK putty jar whenever there is a repair needed on the VR. Even buying ABS pipe new is very inexpensive.

[van avery]

I've use some stuff called "Rapid Fix". It a two component mix, one bottle is a liquid like super glue and the second bottle is a powder. When you mix the two the powder set up immediately and is hard as a rock and can be machined , sanded ,etc. I used it on my 87 to fix many cracks and even secure a wooden dowel in place of one of the side cover posts.

Costs between 20 and 30 dollars on the internet and some auto parts and some ACE hardware store carry it.

I had a cracked cover on a 83 Goldwing saddlebag that I could not get to hold together, ( internal stress) until a friend let me try the rapid fix on it. Worked like a charm. I have found a few things it would not adhere to but generally its great stuff. I even fixed the broken off outlet nozzle on the gas pump on the 85 Royale I working on now.

I have not tried the newer "Rapid fix" UV light hardening glue yet. Just ordered some yesterday.

 

 

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