Metzler Marathon feathering.

[CaseyJ955]

I know Oil and Tire threads are risky, so I'll stop short of asking "whats the best tire" and go more in the direction of which tires may be most appropriate according to my priorities. This is by far the heaviest bike I have ever owned and the issue is the current tires have feathered significantly enough to cause a howl at any lean angle at all. Metzler 888 Marathon on the rear and 880 on the front.

 

I just purchased the bike so I'm not sure how these tires were run for PSI or riding habits, just that theres a lot of meat left on them and I'll have to replace them just because of how they are worn. I'm interested in what gen1 folks are generally happy with when even wear, mileage and cost are factors.

I have never ordered tires online but I think it's time to start so any suggestions on a good vendor is welcome to.

 

I apologize if this has been beat to death but my search didnt quite get me to high mileage long wear tires or where to order them from on the cheap. Tires are sort of expensive so I want to make sure that I can use them for their full life. I found info about a car tire, dont really want to go that route. A link, suggestions or anything appreciated. The bike will be used for lots of open roads and some scenic windy roads so a little grip is nice, just not if it means replacing them every 5k miles.

 

Thanks !

[Freebird]

Well, I'm not sure that there is a car tire that will work on the first gen anyway so it's good that you don't want to go that route. I haven't owned a first gen in a long time but for maximum miles and a very good tire, I would see what is available in the Dunlop E3 or E4. I know that the E4 is replacing the E3 but don't know if they are available in the correct sizes for the first gen. I would start by checking Dennis Kirk and go from there.

[Black wing]

the Michelin commander II is the best highway tire I've run, but was not real great in dirt or cold weather. the highest weight rating i could find for towing a trailer, and hard enough to get good mileage on them

[bongobobny]

There are a lot of us here on the site that will not run Metzlers even on a dare!! Several years there was a LOT of them literally throwing off chunks of rubber off and in a few instances resulting in crashes!!

 

The Avon Venoms were for many years one of the "go to" tires but a few years ago some people started having issues with them as well.

 

As far as tread wear numbers go, the Dunlop E-3 had the highest, higher than the Michelin. I believe that is also the case with the new E-4's. Don't even think of Dunlop D404's, they do not wear worth beans on the Venture even though they are rated as a "Touring Bike" tire. Maybe fine for lighter ones, but not on the almost 900 lb Venture.

 

You are going to get many varied opinions on this thread, and it all depends on driving style, your pocket book, and how much you ride in the rain...

[CaseyJ955]

Thanks gents, I almost expected to get flamed for making a tire thread!

 

I will check into that, I also noticed the Metzler failure threads and didnt plan to buy them again. On the Vmax there is no radial produced for the rear, to run them one would have to buy a modified rear rim (big $$$). I'm glad thats not the case for the Venture.

 

I really dont stop riding until there is ice on the road and my driveway is 3 miles of dirt and washboard gravel but I'm conservative when road conditions suck or I'm off the pavement. I might have mistakenly assumed that virtually any current tire would have at least some competence in adverse conditions or spirited riding, maybe I should rethink that. I do know that some last a whole lot longer than others. I have a jumping off point now, going to start getting things ordered to make her whole so I can get at least one meaningful trip this year yet.

[cowpuc]

Hey Casey - just finished reading your other thread about your new scoot - WOW ZZZZZ WOW WOW WOW - she is a DANDY = CONGRATS!! Bongo mentioned spying some add on's in that thread - I think I saw more = gotta go back sometime and add to his list .. Don mentioned somewhere about tires being the cause of the hummmm you are experiencing when your scoot is anything but straight up = now reading that you are running Metz's - I can attest to having experienced the noise your are talking about and affirm that Metz's were probably the most pronounced for that noise = my money is on new tires will alleviate the noise..

I am one who had a Metz fail. Long story short, the tire delaminated while out in California - see pic. Have tried many brands over the years, always maintain proper air pressures but do require a lot out of my tires = we load heavy, ride desert temps but ALWAYS purchase higher load level tires (74H or higher)..

Michillin has been the highest mileage tire = 6500 miles. Dunny 404 the lowest = just under 4000 miles. I carry spoons and swap my own tires so, IMHO, the 180 bucks I paid for the Mich was no where near worth the cost when considering I could have almost purchased 3 other lower end tires for that price. A good example of this is that I replaced the Metz in the pic with a 65 dollar (shipped) "Full Bore" M-66 - that cheapy Full Bore did an AWESOME job and lasted 5000 miles in 110 degree desert riding fun..

I have read and reread many many writings about folks getting really high mileage out of their rear tires - unfortunately I am not one of them. I do personally know people who have ridden on "dual compound" Dunlop tires and know for a fact that my buddy has just under 15000 miles on his and it is ready for a swap out. Last time I checked - that Dunlop he is running on his Ultra Limited was $245. Again,, IMHO - 15k for 245 bucks does not = 5k for 65 bucks BUT - again,, I dont mind swapping my own tires..

Here is Tire Poll you might be interested in:

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?118014-POLL-2-for-REAL-this-time!!!-What-kind-of-mileage-do-you-get-from-a-rear-tire&highlight=tire+poll

and here is where you can find pics of the Metz problem with had - if this link does not take you right to the proper page - you can pass thru all the nonsense in the ride article and go to page 15 and post 223 at this link to read all about it:

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?94309-Ahhhh-the-summer-of-14-ADVENTURE-SERVED-UP-GORMET-STYLE!!!!/page15&highlight=metzler+tire

 

I tried unsuccessfully (we have line problems here in my area) to post pics - sorry but you will have to follow the above link if you want to see them.. By the way,, I am still thinking that its the style of Tread that makes the Metz sing and viborate some when cornering - especially after they have worn the radius off in the center of the tire a little..

Hope this all helps - CONGRATS on the new scoot = IMHO, you did GREAT Casey!!

Puc

[Black wing]

well sounds like you ride through about as much as i do, so even though they are a bit low on mileage i have gotten 15K off one the 404's are the best all around tire in my opinion.

 

 

or if you want to go real wild put perelli scorpions on the front and a bridgestone tw40 on the rear. though i only run those in the winter when im alone and not carrying cargo as they dont have the weight rating

 

[snyper316]

After looking at @cowpuc post realizing my tire is identical to the one he has in a picture made me look at mine and I have Metzler's on front and back of my bike and getting down on the ground taken closer look after spotting the name to think the night I got my bike running again long story short I was in triple digits with a crack running all around my tire on the rear and the front is starting to develope and finding out last night more on date codes that my tires are going on 8 yrs old well um yeh I'm in market for tires but I'm funny when it comes to tires I will not buy the cheapest but rather go with known good brand... So I guess I will do a vote on ppl experience with different brands and the ones with the most recommended I will run with

 

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[djh3]

While not a 1st gen experienced guy, on my 2nd gen I did have a couple brands. When I got it had Dunlap E-3, I think the previous owner did not watch tire pressures very good. The wear was funny and they picked up the same type feathering you are mentioning and got to howling. Also in wet the no tread center made them dicey. I replaced them with Michelin Commander 2's, I got over 17K out of them, they still had OK tread but I was getting ready for about 4k+ trip and thought it smart to get new ones. I went with Shinko Tourmaster. Decent enough tire, good wet or dry and good price. I normally go thru Motorcycle Superstore. Good prices and if its over like $90 it ships free and they will price match.

[camos]

Last time I checked - that Dunlop he is running on his Ultra Limited was $245. Again,, IMHO - 15k for 245 bucks does not = 5k for 65 bucks BUT - again,,

Are you comparing apples with oranges? A set of Elite 3 tires for a gen 1 are somewhat expensive at about $140 each but they really lose out to $32 each, if that's correct.

 

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/34979/i/Dunlop-Elite-3-Touring-Bias-Ply-Rear-Tire.aspx?WT.ac=SLIsearch

 

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/16438/i/dunlop-elite-3-front-tire?suggest=1&term=Elite%20III%20front

 

Going by the many anecdotal comments regarding tire models and mileage it is difficult to assess what is actually true. In general, I have found more people getting high mileage from Elite 3's and low mileage from every other brand not counting Avons and Mettzlers which are not worth buying because they were defective for years if not still.

 

Elite 3's are the superior choice because they get excellent mileage and don't fall apart. The dual compound construction gives long wear on the highways and excellent adhesion in the corners. The tread pattern is probably not so important unless you intend to go off road. I ride in the rain a lot and have never felt the least bit apprehensive when using Elite 3's.

 

Vendors I have used that have given me good service are Motorcycle Superstore, Dennis Kirk, Rocky Mountain Power Sports and across the border, Canada's Motorcycle. I shop for the best price at a recommended vendor. It never hurts to also include independent local vendors in your shopping list. Many will match online prices to a degree. Not so much success with dealers though.

[snyper316]

I didn't mean to offend if I did I'm just saying I have tried to teach my older boy this principle You get what you pay for... IE meaning he got 40 dollar tires for his car and within a month one of them shredded and Walmart wouldnt live up to there Road Hazard Warranty... trying to say he used 30% of his tread or something anyways I just would be leary of buying a cheap tire for anything in general I know everyone will be entitled to there opinions but it seems SHINKO is a much talked about tire.. seen somewhere someone said something about putting a narrower tire on the front end of 1st Gen that they turned better etc...

[videoarizona]

Shinko is a good tire. I'm running the Tourmasters on my 89...the original tire size! Don't get a narrower tire for a 1st Gen...only need that for the 2nd Gen.

I'm very pleased with the ride,etc.. E3's are about the best for a high end tire. Good ride, traction and durability. I think Shinko is best for a cheaper brand...although that really is a misnomer. They bought Yokohama....and are making their tires better than they did!

 

The only negative seems to be wear on the rear...mine have been on for over a year and no appreciable wear so far...about 4K miles.

But that doesn't bother me. Like Cowpuc...I don't mind changing out the rear....it's a good maintenance time.

 

1st pic is of my Metzler failure. The tire split open and had a nice bulge going as I zinged down the highway at 75. Felt a thumpity thumpity start and get worse. Saw the bulge as the tire was splitting. Went home very slowly on back roads...

 

 

2nd picture was taken this morning....you can see the rear and front still look great...

 

[cowpuc]

Absolutely, positively, unequivicably NO offense taken if your aiming that "didnt mean to offend" comment in my direction Snyp - just different strokes for different folks.. I get in the same discussions when talking oils,,, i.e. I was always the one to stick with cheapy Walmart 20/50 Supertech oil when running desert temps always swapped out with I could "feel" my trannies getting sticky (usually between 3 and 3500 miles) - always had really good luck with the "junk" dino oils.. Always really liked Wally's 20/50 cause I could always find it, Wally let me use their store drain and,, instead of 8 bucks a quart = couple bucks.. Main thing was/is in my opinion = keep the oil changed but I do have a LOT of buddies who think I am crazy and wouldnt think of putting anything other 8 to 15 dollar a quart oil in their scoot...

Batteries the same = lots of folks spend the big bucks for batteries.. Same guy who has the new Harley with the expensive rear tire just went Lithium on his - thinking it was around 400 bucks - WOW is it lightweight.. Batteries are a another fun topic of discussion around here.. I happen to be a Wally battery lover,, good old fashioned lead acid battery - last I one I bought from Wally cost me 50 bucks.. CHEAP,, yes BUT it also comes with a Wally warranty and I for one have had really good luck with em.. Cant tell you how many times I been on the road thru the years, out of State, battery got finicky, pulled into Wally's, removed my battery and pulled the receipt from the Maintenance Dept (right bag) - walk in and walk out with a brand new battery..

Bottom line on tires IMHO - always double check the load rating and date stamp on tires BEFORE you order them online - Mom Yam specs our 1st Gens at 65h front and 71H rear - personally I think thats light but I pack pretty heavy.. 77h on the rear and 71h on the front is more to my liking and I try to stay newer than 2 years old. I have family in California so when I do a cross country ride now - I just order up a new rear tire and have a shipped to Sacramento, history has taught me a tire out and tire back.. Had a new Dunny 404 on when I left Michigan for Cali a few years ago, got messing around playing in Utah on the way out - keeping close eye on air pressures as always - that 404 ended up all over my rear fender and back of the bags cause of the hot tarmac with just under 4k miles on it.. Stopped at a dealership - only tire they had was another 404 and they wanted 185 bucks for the tire CASH AND CARRY!! That was in Moab,, rode to next town, all Yamaha/Honda shop there had was another 404 too BUT they only wanted 135 bucks for it - had me over the barrel, spooned on the next 404 - it was GONE by the time Tip and I got to Sacramento a couple weeks and under 5k miles later.. I am absolutely positive and have NO DOUBT that people on here have gotten 15 to 20000 miles out of the 404.. I have a hunch that my lower mileage has something to do with gross vehicle weight and tarmac tempts.. May also have something to do with tarmac type because I have noticed some really sharp rocked tarmac in some western states I have ridden.. On the same token though, I have yet to notice a significant difference in low/mid or high dollar tires when used the way I use them.. I did notice some handling differences in the high mileage Michillins I ran out a couple years ago - the rubber on those tires was noticeably stiffer and harder which produced, IMHO, some strange "feelings" of lack of hook up when really challanging mountain twisties..

Have ridden out a set of Shinko's - liked em fine. I actually think they hooked up better than the Avon Venom's I am running right now - good cornering tires and great in the rain. Second rear Shinko I ran I did have a chunk of square steel that looked like a lock for split rim go thru the brand new rear tire down near Johnson City Tennessee.. The 1/2 inch wide by 3/8 inch piece of steel made a hole thru the center of the new Shinko and was inside the tire when the guys at "Jims" in Johnson City removed the tire from the rim (long story - got a ride into town, a GREAT salesman at Jims sold me an Elite 2 (my favorite tire of all time) for 100 bucks and offered to mount it for free) the piece fell out - we were ALL amazed that the piece of steel with NO sharp edges was able to puncture the Shinko = last Shinko I have ran BUT would run another before I trusted another Metz..

 

,, ok,, I'll stop

[cowpuc]

Shinko is a good tire. I'm running the Tourmasters on my 89...the original tire size! Don't get a narrower tire for a 1st Gen...only need that for the 2nd Gen.

I'm very pleased with the ride,etc.. E3's are about the best for a high end tire. Good ride, traction and durability. I think Shinko is best for a cheaper brand...although that really is a misnomer. They bought Yokohama....and are making their tires better than they did!

 

The only negative seems to be wear on the rear...mine have been on for over a year and no appreciable wear so far...about 4K miles.

But that doesn't bother me. Like Cowpuc...I don't mind changing out the rear....it's a good maintenance time.

 

1st pic is of my Metzler failure. The tire split open and had a nice bulge going as I zinged down the highway at 75. Felt a thumpity thumpity start and get worse. Saw the bulge as the tire was splitting. Went home very slowly on back roads...

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]106893[/ATTACH]

 

2nd picture was taken this morning....you can see the rear and front still look great...

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]106894[/ATTACH]

 

Wass up Vaz? Hey,, was reading on a recent post about Fork Braces - noticed someone had something on there about having to wire up the bottom of his fork gators when he put on the new brace - remembering our discussion about the brace you got from Riv and now gotta ask,, is that GORGEOUS 89 yours one of those models that was suppose to have gators on it? Maybe those lower leg tops are a little bigger cause of it?

 

Sorry for the Casey - another flaw in my character

[snyper316]

No not you cowpuc lol by the nice singing voice in that thread I read the Apples and oranges wrong no after seeing your tire and it's the same Metzler's on mine I like the look of some shinkos but I was trying to find the venoms and pricing and was seeing more threads about shinkos I just recently got comfortable riding the big ol 1200 the biggest bike I ever road was the yamahammer 350 fast bugger with racing reeds racing clutch and smaller sprocket on the rear laid it down once trying to avoid tree lol got in a groove and made the mistake of trying to force it out

 

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[cowpuc]

No not you cowpuc lol by the nice singing voice in that thread I read the Apples and oranges wrong no after seeing your tire and it's the same Metzler's on mine I like the look of some shinkos but I was trying to find the venoms and pricing and was seeing more threads about shinkos I just recently got comfortable riding the big ol 1200 the biggest bike I ever road was the yamahammer 350 fast bugger with racing reeds racing clutch and smaller sprocket on the rear laid it down once trying to avoid tree lol got in a groove and made the mistake of trying to force it out

 

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We talking RD 350 Snyp - YAHOOOWOWZY I loved them little suckers!! Had an R5 and an RD back in the days - I could ride the RD on the back wheel thru 4 gears (not 1st - to pipey).. I also LOVED my RD in the woods - the low pipes worked like ski's in the sand LOL... Those puppies were DRAGON KILLERS brother!! Always wanted an RZ but just could never afford one,, your not talking RZ are you?????

Also had an original R1 Yam.. Lots of younger folk dont know this but in 67 Yamaha came out with the predecessor of the RD = the 350 R1... Cool bike in its on right but nothing close to the little RD..

[snyper316]

I'm not sure to be honest it was jacked high and I had to kinda hop on it to get it to set low enough to reach the ground flat footed

 

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[snyper316]

It was more like a motocross bike the only reason I can't Identify it cause who ever had it painted it all blue it only had headlight and brake light but I remember it was an 86 is what was on title

 

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[videoarizona]

Wass up Vaz? Hey,, was reading on a recent post about Fork Braces - noticed someone had something on there about having to wire up the bottom of his fork gators when he put on the new brace - remembering our discussion about the brace you got from Riv and now gotta ask,, is that GORGEOUS 89 yours one of those models that was suppose to have gators on it? Maybe those lower leg tops are a little bigger cause of it?

 

Sorry for the Casey - another flaw in my character

 

Morning Puc,

 

I don't believe my 89 had gators when new....I think that was from 90 on. Maybe I have a late model fork designed for gators that got on my scoot during manufacture...don't know. RIV sent me his other brace...but haven't had the time to try it out. If it doesn't fit...then I do have something going on with forks. I "know" I put the front end back together properly as I laid everything out as I went along?!?!

 

She sure rides well though...

 

But we shall see.....

[CaseyJ955]

Wass up Vaz? Hey,, was reading on a recent post about Fork Braces - noticed someone had something on there about having to wire up the bottom of his fork gators when he put on the new brace - remembering our discussion about the brace you got from Riv and now gotta ask,, is that GORGEOUS 89 yours one of those models that was suppose to have gators on it? Maybe those lower leg tops are a little bigger cause of it?

 

Sorry for the Casey - another flaw in my character

 

No worries, Hijack away, I got some amazing information in this thread, which is what I was after. It also got me thinking of my old RD400 in the fugliest green with white stripe. I'm a bit of a 2 cycle nut, if I ever find an H2 in any condition I'll probably cave and snag. Puc, dont worry about being a nut, I'm nuttier than a Chinese chicken salad! rock on brother, it's all good!

 

I now have information on tires, I went to some of these vendors and researched some of the mentioned tire choices and have it narrowed down considerably, really liking the E3 and a couple others. I called a local bike shop and was blown away by cost to mount and balance if I just walk in off the street, and at one of the shops it came with some attitude, presumably about not going there to pay $100 more for the tires. In the spirit of self sufficiency I'll be picking up a basic cheap balancer and some better spoons and doing it myself since my Vmax needs them to (Also 880s with feathering) I guess I'm done with Metzler and starting with doing my own mount/balancing.

 

The best money I have spent so far was the $12 to be a member here. This is worth much more than the price of admission.

[snyper316]

No worries, Hijack away, I got some amazing information in this thread, which is what I was after. It also got me thinking of my old RD400 in the fugliest green with white stripe. I'm a bit of a 2 cycle nut, if I ever find an H2 in any condition I'll probably cave and snag. Puc, dont worry about being a nut, I'm nuttier than a Chinese chicken salad! rock on brother, it's all good!

 

I now have information on tires, I went to some of these vendors and researched some of the mentioned tire choices and have it narrowed down considerably, really liking the E3 and a couple others. I called a local bike shop and was blown away by cost to mount and balance if I just walk in off the street, and at one of the shops it came with some attitude, presumably about not going there to pay $100 more for the tires. In the spirit of self sufficiency I'll be picking up a basic cheap balancer and some better spoons and doing it myself since my Vmax needs them to (Also 880s with feathering) I guess I'm done with Metzler and starting with doing my own mount/balancing.

 

The best money I have spent so far was the $12 to be a member here. This is worth much more than the price of admission.

 

Ok since we are going for nuts here I will have to disagree with the both of you I am about the nuttiest oddest person you will ever meet but gotta bring back a quote I seen a long time ago "I would rather be strange Because its the normal people you don't know" something along those lines

[videoarizona]

Wass up Vaz? Hey,, was reading on a recent post about Fork Braces - noticed someone had something on there about having to wire up the bottom of his fork gators when he put on the new brace - remembering our discussion about the brace you got from Riv and now gotta ask,, is that GORGEOUS 89 yours one of those models that was suppose to have gators on it? Maybe those lower leg tops are a little bigger cause of it?

 

Sorry for the Casey - another flaw in my character

 

@cowpuc, see thread in 2nd Gen tech area....I mentioned about the fork brace.

[snyper316]

I was told like $50 for just a scooter tire so i can Imagine how much for a motorcycle tire

[CaseyJ955]

Has anyone tried the American Elite tires? I can buy them locally and I guess they are a dual compound tire, they look and feel similar to the Dunlop E3.

 

We have a local bike shop that charges $25 a wheel to mount and balance if the wheel is off, regardless of where I purchase them.

[camos]

I was told like $50 for just a scooter tire so i can Imagine how much for a motorcycle tire

If the shop you got a quote from was a dealership then get another quote from an independent shop. I just got a front tire mounted and balanced for $28 which was up $3 from the last time they did the job. This is with just the tire and wheel. If removing the wheel is required then a higher cost would be justified.

 

Regarding the Shinko Tourmaster, I've never read any negative comments about that tire. It seems like an excellent choice. It will get fewer miles on it than the E 3 but it is less expensive. For myself, I think the E 3 is a more economical choice when factoring in the initial cost and the cost of mounting compared to getting 20,000 miles on the Venture. I'm at 25,000 miles on my Virago with E 3's and it looks to be about 2/3 done. What can I say, I'm a fan.