130 Tire Handling Problems

[WIZ]

I don't normally post on here much, but after my findings I wanted to share.

 

Earlier this year I installed a 130 front tire on my 99 Venture. The first trip was on back roads and loved the slow speed handling. My first trip on the highway had me reconsidering. It seemed very unstable so I started researching posts to find the problem. I started with the steering head quick check and it seemed to be OK. I was riding with my brother and we got our speed up to around 100 mph and I got into a death wobble. It about 1/8 mile to get it under control. (I don't typically drive like this speed) I then ordered steering head bearings and replaced them. They were bad. I checked the swing arm bearing next and they were also bad so I replaced them. Both helped a lot. But since I wasn't sure about the service history of the bike, I went ahead and replaced both wheel bearings.

 

I didn't notice any of these problems with the 150 tire but they were magnified by the 130 tire. So for some of you that have tried the 130 tire and changed it because of the handling, you may want to check your bearings closer. I did the quick check on the steering head and swing arm and both checked out but when I tore it down both sets of bearings still had grease on them but when I cleaned the races both showed significant wear. And after replacing, bike handling was much improved.

 

Wiz

[gggGary]

Just a note IF you get a steering wobble going (a very scary thing at speed) there is a way to stop it. You need to push forward hard on both hand grips. You must PUSH forward not PULL back, pulling back on the grips will make the oscillation WORSE. Google PIO (Pilot induced oscillation) for more info. The difference has to do with how human nerve / muscle reaction works. I discovered this technique under very trying circumstances when I was a lad, at speed on an old XS650. It was truly do or die that day.

Thanks for the write up! I am considering a different size front tire at next change. I kinda think I can feel the sidewall flex of that fat old 150 affecting turn in/out at most speeds. It feels like I make an input, wait for the tire to "load up/move" in reaction to the applied force then the bike moves the way I intend. My 99 has 10K miles and I just adjusted the steering bearing tension.

[Beau-Kat]

Just a note IF you get a steering wobble going (a very scary thing at speed) there is a way to stop it. You need to push forward hard on both hand grips. You must PUSH forward not PULL back, pulling back on the grips will make the oscillation WORSE. Google PIO (Pilot induced oscillation) for more info. The difference has to do with how human nerve / muscle reaction works. I discovered this technique under very trying circumstances when I was a lad, at speed on an old XS650. It was truly do or die that day.

Thanks for the write up! I am considering a different size front tire at next change. I kinda think I can feel the sidewall flex of that fat old 150 affecting turn in/out at most speeds. It feels like I make an input, wait for the tire to "load up/move" in reaction to the applied force then the bike moves the way I intend. My 99 has 10K miles and I just adjusted the steering bearing tension.

 

Thanks for the info, since I have a '98 VMax. Those bikes are prone to the death wobble.

[rbig1]

I really like the improved handling with the 130 tire. much straighter at slow speed. Can even come to a complete stop with out putting feet down and sit there for a short time. But the back is lowered also don't know if that makes a difference or not. Bought the bike like this. have also been at the upper end with no problems.

[gggGary]

what 130's yah guys running? Any issue with load ratings on these "husky" sized bikes?

[Bert2006]

For me its a Commander II, did notice a front end wobble last year before I replaced it due to wear. Once new one got on it disapeared. Asside from that handling is much improved and weight rating of the tire meets specs for the bike.

[gggGary]

Found this;

 

[h=2]Specs for Kenda Rear K671 Cruiser 140/70-16 Blackwall Tire - 046711620C1[/h][TABLE=class: zebra-table padding-fix, width: 540]

[TR=bgcolor: #F2F2F2]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Aspect Ratio[/TH]

[TD]70[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Diameter - Rim - Motorcycle & Dirt Bike[/TH]

[TD]16 in.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: #F2F2F2]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Load Rating[/TH]

[TD]65(639 LBS)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Position - Tire/Wheel[/TH]

[TD]Rear[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: #F2F2F2]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Sidewall[/TH]

[TD]Blackwall[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Speed Rating[/TH]

[TD]H(130 MPH)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: #F2F2F2]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Tire Classification[/TH]

[TD]Cruiser/Touring[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Tire Construction[/TH]

[TD]Bias[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: #F2F2F2]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Type - Tube[/TH]

[TD]Tube or Tubeless[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Units[/TH]

[TD]Each[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: #F2F2F2]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Weight[/TH]

[TD]13.43 lbs[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Width - Tire - Motorcycle & Dirt Bike[/TH]

[TD]140[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: #F2F2F2]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Width - Tire - Motorcycle & Dirt Bike[/TH]

[TD]5.50[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH=class: large-4 small-4 narrow text-left]Width - Tire - Motorcycle & Dirt Bike[/TH]

[TD]MU

 

 

 

 

 

 

about $80 would mount it on the front hmmmmm[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[bongobobny]

ggg if you plan on using it on the front remember to mount it backwards. The belt design of front tires vs rear tires is exactly opposite, rear tires have an exerted force when accelerating, whereas front tires have the exerted force when braking...

[garyS-NJ]

So it was swinger bearing and neck bearing accounting for the instability at speed?? With the neck bearing, did it feel lumpy/grindy when you turn the forks left and right with the wheel off ground? And for the swing arm bearing do you have a link for the quick check and also for bearing replacement?? On my 1984, I've been feeling instability described as road snaking which got better when I installed progressive springs and snugged neck bearing. But the snaking isn't gone enough. Before this work, I tried different setups for the front and rear shock air pressure and didn't find a set up which improved stability. However, with the Progressive front springs I've been running sure low pressure but today keeping the rear set to medium, when I raised the front pressure to LOW, the snaking instability got worse. This is opposite my intuition which says pressurized front means longer forks, more rake, and more trail which should improve high speed stability. Thoughts?

 

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[WIZ]

When I did the quick check on the steering and swing arm bearings they both appeared to be ok with no rough or grinding feeling to them. But when I tore it down to replace them, both showed significant wear. After replacement the handling was greatly improved. Since this post my rear shock went out, I only noticed a small puddle under my bike one time but the next ride I could feel the pogo feeling from the shock. I ordered and installed a hagon shock, the bike now handles better than it has since I have owned it. The quick checks are good checks but if you are having issues don't rule out the possibility that the bearings are worn enough to cause your issues. Wiz

[Marcarl]

So it was swinger bearing and neck bearing accounting for the instability at speed?? With the neck bearing, did it feel lumpy/grindy when you turn the forks left and right with the wheel off ground? And for the swing arm bearing do you have a link for the quick check and also for bearing replacement?? On my 1984, I've been feeling instability described as road snaking which got better when I installed progressive springs and snugged neck bearing. But the snaking isn't gone enough. Before this work, I tried different setups for the front and rear shock air pressure and didn't find a set up which improved stability. However, with the Progressive front springs I've been running sure low pressure but today keeping the rear set to medium, when I raised the front pressure to LOW, the snaking instability got worse. This is opposite my intuition which says pressurized front means longer forks, more rake, and more trail which should improve high speed stability. Thoughts?

 

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It would be almost guaranteed that your swing arm bearings are rusted and need replacement, you may even need a new bolt made up for the lower end of the shock, seeing as I would expect significant wear there, unless of course that someone has installed grease zerks previously and they have been used. Steering head bearings are also something that need to be changed because of time, not necessarily mileage. Yammi didn't do a great job in the lube dept in either area.

[garyS-NJ]

It would be almost guaranteed that your swing arm bearings are rusted and need replacement, you may even need a new bolt made up for the lower end of the shock, seeing as I would expect significant wear there, unless of course that someone has installed grease zerks previously and they have been used. Steering head bearings are also something that need to be changed because of time, not necessarily mileage. Yammi didn't do a great job in the lube dept in either area.

Time not miles? I was just going to ask Wiz how many miles.. I have about 30k mi on my 1984. And so every one of these old bikes needs neck and swingarm bearings replaced due to age? And is adding zerks the logical thing to do? Another thing Wiz, did you get a test ride after replacing just the neck or swingwarm bearings?(& how many miles do you have). & can you describe what you mean by " instabiity at speed" (besides the death wobble). & marcarl, any links for procedure to check the swing arm bearing? & is the shock bolt obvious and can it cause road snaking? & who makes a replacement bolt if it can't be had from Yamaha or aftermarket? & I was really hoping to get some comment as to why increased front end air pressure makes my road snaking worse (that couldn't affect load at the bearings very much).

 

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[Flyinfool]

Time not miles? I was just going to ask Wiz how many miles.. I have about 30k mi on my 1984. And so every one of these old bikes needs neck and swingarm bearings replaced due to age? And is adding zerks the logical thing to do? Another thing Wiz, did you get a test ride after replacing just the neck or swingwarm bearings?(& how many miles do you have). & can you describe what you mean by " instabiity at speed" (besides the death wobble). & marcarl, any links for procedure to check the swing arm bearing? & is the shock bolt obvious and can it cause road snaking? & who makes a replacement bolt if it can't be had from Yamaha or aftermarket? & I was really hoping to get some comment as to why increased front end air pressure makes my road snaking worse (that couldn't affect load at the bearings very much).

 

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First thought what length spacers did you install with the progressives?

Did you install the OEM aluminum spacer with the O-rings that goes right under the threaded nut?

Did you change the weight or amount of your fork oil?

[WIZ]

I had 130,000 miles on my bike when I changed the bearings. I did get to ride it after the steering head bearing change, it helped quite a bit. The instability I had was the bike not wanting to track straight especially around trucks and other traffic at higher speeds above 70. If the bearings were dry or not loaded properly they will wear much quicker. Wiz

[Marcarl]

Time not miles? I was just going to ask Wiz how many miles.. I have about 30k mi on my 1984. And so every one of these old bikes needs neck and swingarm bearings replaced due to age? And is adding zerks the logical thing to do? Another thing Wiz, did you get a test ride after replacing just the neck or swingwarm bearings?(& how many miles do you have). & can you describe what you mean by " instabiity at speed" (besides the death wobble). & marcarl, any links for procedure to check the swing arm bearing? & is the shock bolt obvious and can it cause road snaking? & who makes a replacement bolt if it can't be had from Yamaha or aftermarket? & I was really hoping to get some comment as to why increased front end air pressure makes my road snaking worse (that couldn't affect load at the bearings very much).

 

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Moisture will get into the swing arm bearings, they are a type of plastic, and one drop of moisture is all it needs to do damage over time. I took the wheel off of my 85 and checked for play in the swing arm,and found nothing. Then later I decided to take things apart and low and behold, all bearings had rust and were more or less ceased. Replaced all the bearings and installed grease zerks so I could grease the joints and remove any moisture that had found it way in there. Also found that the shock bolt had wear so bought a bolt that was close to the right size and had a friend with a lathe fix it so that it replaced the original for shoulder length and thread length.

Neck bearings will also depreciate with age and moisture. Like I said, Yammi didn't over grease these items and the neck bearings need to work easy and smooth. They need to be tightened enough to provide some sort of dampening, not much, but some. If you find the bike has a mind of it's own on the road and needs constant correction, then it's mostly likely too tight and it needs to be loosened a bit. By a bit I mean about as much turn as it would take to say that the nut moved. It doesn't take a lot to make a difference.

Road snaking can also be caused by the tire. I had Bridgestones on when I bought it, and hated any road snakes.I then bought Avon Venoms and never worried about road snakes again, but that was before Avon had issues. Later used Elite III and was very happy.

[garyS-NJ]

First thought what length spacers did you install with the progressives?

Did you install the OEM aluminum spacer with the O-rings that goes right under the threaded nut?

Did you change the weight or amount of your fork oil?

The white pvc looking spacers I pulled out were the same size as the ones which came with the progressives and they were about 1.25". The spacers provided about 1" compression with the new springs so I used them as is with the metal washer between spring and spacer. On my 1984 I didn't have any aluminum spacer with o ring. And no threaded nut but rather the fork tube cap was more a threaded plug with a 17mm hex key drive.

 

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[garyS-NJ]

I had 130,000 miles on my bike when I changed the bearings. I did get to ride it after the steering head bearing change, it helped quite a bit. The instability I had was the bike not wanting to track straight especially around trucks and other traffic at higher speeds above 70. If the bearings were dry or not loaded properly they will wear much quicker. Wiz

So the neck bearing helped quite a bit and the swing arm bearing improved it for a confident ride at speed? I get how a crosswind from a tractor tailer can push a bike a little sideways but what I have is a feeling of a very light front end which is prone to weave snaking and once in this oscillation, slow to dampen out.. I don't need to provide too much steering inputs to keep her on track which might be more wandering from an over tight or damaged neck bearing.

 

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[garyS-NJ]

Moisture will get into the swing arm bearings, they are a type of plastic, and one drop of moisture is all it needs to do damage over time. I took the wheel off of my 85 and checked for play in the swing arm,and found nothing. Then later I decided to take things apart and low and behold, all bearings had rust and were more or less ceased. Replaced all the bearings and installed grease zerks so I could grease the joints and remove any moisture that had found it way in there. Also found that the shock bolt had wear so bought a bolt that was close to the right size and had a friend with a lathe fix it so that it replaced the original for shoulder length and thread length.

Neck bearings will also depreciate with age and moisture. Like I said, Yammi didn't over grease these items and the neck bearings need to work easy and smooth. They need to be tightened enough to provide some sort of dampening, not much, but some. If you find the bike has a mind of it's own on the road and needs constant correction, then it's mostly likely too tight and it needs to be loosened a bit. By a bit I mean about as much turn as it would take to say that the nut moved. It doesn't take a lot to make a difference.

Road snaking can also be caused by the tire. I had Bridgestones on when I bought it, and hated any road snakes.I then bought Avon Venoms and never worried about road snakes again, but that was before Avon had issues. Later used Elite III and was very happy.

No my bike doesn't wander and require corrections. It just feels very light in the steering (like I have a big fat chick hanging off the back making my front wheel come off the ground). So at higher speeds it snake weaves a lot. A snake weave can be introduced but hitting a bump and more so by a bump in a turn at speed. Its noticibly worse with more weight packed on the bike like gear and two up riding. Especially with any weight up high in or on the trunk.

 

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[garyS-NJ]

I didn't get to noticing high speed snaking with the original dry rotted tires from th PO. Because I wasn't confident to ride fast or much on them. But bumps or grooves would make the bike change course with those tires and that much better now with my new shinko 777's. But think ill try the elites (or avons' next time... Did you say Avon has issues?)

 

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[garyS-NJ]

First thought what length spacers did you install with the progressives?

Did you install the OEM aluminum spacer with the O-rings that goes right under the threaded nut?

Did you change the weight or amount of your fork oil?

And I don't know what weight or amount of fork oil was in there (should have checked volume ). But I put in 400cc of 15w fork oil

 

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[gggGary]

I ended up installing a Shinko 777HD 130/90/16 front tire. Put on a few thousand miles, seemed to improve handling, alas I ran the rear down to bald during a trip, my tapered steering bearings were also SHOT. I may have accelerated their demise, thinking the bike had ball bearings I attempted a "kludge in place snug up". Anyways new tapered are in, and I'm doing fork oil before I reinstall the tubes. Bike had 10K miles last August 16K miles now ( It spent over a decade sitting in Arizona.)

There needs to be a choice between the 99 RSV and an 05 FJR I bought last fall. Guess I will have to knuckle down and ride them both a lot to help decide.........

Edited March 17, 2017 by gggGary

[djh3]

I really liked the attributes of the 130 in front. Never did I fell it make the bike squirmy or ill handling.

[videoarizona]

I ended up installing a Shinko 777HD 130/90/16 front tire. Put on a few thousand miles, seemed to improve handling, alas I ran the rear down to bald during a trip, my tapered steering bearings were also SHOT. I may have accelerated their demise, thinking the bike had ball bearings I attempted a "kludge in place snug up". Anyways new tapered are in, and I'm doing fork oil before I reinstall the tubes. Bike had 10K miles last August 16K miles now ( It spent over a decade sitting in Arizona.)

There needs to be a choice between the 99 RSV and an 05 FJR I bought last fall. Guess I will have to knuckle down and ride them both a lot to help decide.........

 

 

Hmm..JPCycles says the 90 aspect ratio won't fit our RSV's.

Since you installed one on the front, Their site is wrong....correct?

 

P.S. Thanks for LED write up. I'm waiting for the H4's to come back in stock!

[gggGary]

Hmm..JPCycles says the 90 aspect ratio won't fit our RSV's.

Since you installed one on the front, Their site is wrong....correct?

 

P.S. Thanks for LED write up. I'm waiting for the H4's to come back in stock!

 

You made me go double check the size, but yes that tire fits and works great. Steering is a major improvement over that too wide stock tire. The new steering bearings and fresh fork oil don't hurt either. If I get a chance I'll try the raise the rear, linkage mod.

Just got the big projects wrapped up and took r out.

Loving the FJR calipers I put on it. I won't confuse it with a sport bike but it will WOAH now, not just kinda think about stopping while I death grip the lever, like the stock calipers. Some generic pads from fleabay seem good, only took a couple good pulls to bed them in. Hope I don't need to pull the outer fairing (again) it's not responding to cruise control inputs, lights go on then end up in a double flash pattern.

The new to me Bakup drivers back rest is a winner. Needs few more adjustments but will be super. Now gotta do some back to back comparo's with the FJR. But headed down to an XS650 rally in Mountain View Arkansas next weekend. C'mon Spring!

Anyone else smell exhaust on their RSV? I've got the big stock windshield on it and can smell my own pipes.

And and still gotta take care of a clutch gasket weep, no doubt will do the plate mod at the same time.

[videoarizona]

 

You made me go double check the size, but yes that tire fits and works great. Steering is a major improvement over that too wide stock tire. The new steering bearings and fresh fork oil don't hurt either. If I get a chance I'll try the raise the rear, linkage mod.

Just got the big projects wrapped up and took r out.

Loving the FJR calipers I put on it. I won't confuse it with a sport bike but it will WOAH now, not just kinda think about stopping while I death grip the lever, like the stock calipers. Some generic pads from fleabay seem good, only took a couple good pulls to bed them in. Hope I don't need to pull the outer fairing (again) it's not responding to cruise control inputs, lights go on then end up in a double flash pattern.

The new to me Bakup drivers back rest is a winner. Needs few more adjustments but will be super. Now gotta do some back to back comparo's with the FJR. But headed down to an XS650 rally in Mountain View Arkansas next weekend. C'mon Spring!

Anyone else smell exhaust on their RSV? I've got the big stock windshield on it and can smell my own pipes.

And and still gotta take care of a clutch gasket weep, no doubt will do the plate mod at the same time.

 

 

Thanks!

 

Regarding windshield...sounds like the large screen is causing a bit of a vacuum in the pocket where you sit...sucking fumes back at you. Venting the windscreen "should" take care of that....

 

FJR calipers are on my list as well. And the LED headlight, and LED accent lights for the bottom of the fairing, and LED flood lights for night visibility, and....!!

 

But for now, the Admiral has me on sailboat detail. She wants to get back on the water...so these next couple of weeks are cleaning and building "stuff" for the boat. Always something!