Any trick of the trade?

[Rob Swallows]

I'm getting ready to pull my first full service on my bike and not opposed to really getting into it as we are looking at a 3K+ trip in September to celebrate my retirement. I will change all fluids and grease anything needing attention.

 

If you would please suggest what to address through experience so I can get it covered. We plan to visit Mt. Rushmore, Yellowstone, the Smokey Mountains, and ride the Blue Ridge Parkway so quite a bit of seat time on the bike with about 50% camping, 50% percent hotel, with some old Navy buddy's on the trip. The parkway is beautiful and last we were there was in 87 during my Navy stint.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

[videoarizona]

As you said...replace all fluids...so...

 

1: Pull rear end and check splines and drive line for proper grease.

2: Replace rear end oil.

3: Oil change and filter

4: Consider flushing cooling system if not done in past two years. Test thermostadt.

5: Front wheel bearings - grease.

6: Lube all shift points, levers and such.

7: Check steering bearings for looseness and proper torque.

8: Check and replace all brake pads if needed

9: Tires. Might as well get new ones as if you have some miles on current tires, they will be worn by the time you get home with two up and a load.

10: Spark plugs if they are older.

11: Plan spare parts kit and tool kit.

12: Change clutch and brake fluids

13: Snug up all screws and bolts. Replace any stripped.

14: Check brake calipers for proper torque. Use locktite as instructed in various areas.

15: Check front fender bolts for tightness.

 

and so on...

 

Oh...test pack about a gazillion times until you and your honey are both satisfied what goes where...and what stays home...

 

Invest in a case of your favorite beverage to enjoy while working on the scoot...and don't forget to keep grinning about your upcoming retirement!

 

Congrats!

david

[cowpuc]

OUTSTANDING BROTHER!!:clap2::dancefool: Congrats on your upcoming retirement ride celebration and a HUGE THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE FOR FREEDOM'S SAKE!!:clap2::clap2:

 

IMHO, VZ's expertise has got cha headed in the right direction. Having never owned a 2nd Gen but having been around them a little bit now I might add a couple things to his list.. I would do a little digging and find out how much gas line I would need to carry to temporarily connect the fuel tank directly to the carbs in the event that the fuel pump points decided to let me down and I would pack a piece in my maintenance department..

Your gonna be hitting the mountains of Yellow Stone a little later in the season so it might not be a bad idea to pack a few xtra sweat shirts..

 

Ride safe and HAVE FUN out there Rob!!! PLEASE take a bunch of 's to share with us,,, WE LOVE PICTURES!!

[Rob Swallows]

Certainly appreciate the tips and advice. I will be hauling a new pull behind trailer and plan to have about 200 pounds of cargo in that trailer for the trip. My wife and I are not big folks and together we weigh about 300 pounds so should be pretty good to go. It's going to be a long trip and now with empty nest we have the time available.

 

I've ordered all new filters, and have all new fluids for the bike. I was planning to change the clutch hydraulic fluid as it's darker in the sight glass than the front brake but they'll both be changed with DOT III fluid. I don't have any leaks or drips and have looked at all the rubber hoses closely and don't see anything amiss with the tank on other than the current fueling problem. I'm assuming this has never been apart other than routine oil changes so wanting to change everything out and will address the splines too. I assume synthetic wheel bearing grease is up to this task? Brake pads, (F&R) look to have plenty of meat left to them and the tires are new Metzler brand 880's. I actually have a spare set of brake pads for when they are needed. A small roadside tool kit will be carried in the trailer as there will be room including tire changing tools. I've borrowed my son's lift and will weld up a jig to lift the bike. It has "Bubb" exhaust and one of the baffles has broken free so need to find it and weld it back in place. Only rattles occasionally but it's annoying.....

 

What would be thoughts on going with synthetic engine oil and rear gear lube? Having a wet clutch I'm kind of at a loss due to experience.

[Flyinfool]

You can use any kind of engine oil and be safe as long as it specifically states for use with a wet clutch. Many automotive oils with friction reducers will cause the clutch to slip. May people have a favorite oil that is not motorcycle specific and have found that it works. Experiment at your own risk, to me the motorcycle specific oils are not that much more expensive to justify the risk of experimenting to save $5 or even $10 on an oil change.

 

Synthetic oil is better than dino oil, but if you have any weak seals, synthetic is much better at escaping through any weak seals and making a mess.

[Rob Swallows]

I'm not certain what oil is installed now but when the bike is hot, I really have a difficult time shifting to neutral when setting stopped. Shifting up or down on the roll is easy but much easier when the oil is cold. Also when hot, the clutch drags a bit which doesn't exist when cold. When I purchased it the owner gave me a partial quart of "YamaLube" which I still have. I read someplace on here where a gent preferred Honda branded oil but I always ran Mobil Lubricants and never had problems in my older bikes which has asbestos in the facings. On a side note my clutches were always Barnett due to the extreme usage they'd receive..... I've not tried to stand this one up, (and probably won't) but the crazy days of front wheel up standing on the pegs looking over the front tire and shifting in the air are still fresh. Kids kinda put the kabosh to that type of lifestyle and probably prolonged my existence as a sideline.

[Condor]

One last thing. If you've never replaced your battery, or the one you have is pushing 5 years in age, replace it... I'm in the 'If it ain't broke... don't fix it' camp. Check the tires. Change the oils, plugs... sync the carbs and go for it.....

 

 

One more thing. Every morning while on the trip check those Metzlers. With their history of throwing caps it would be the prudent thing to do.

[Rob Swallows]

One last thing. If you've never replaced your battery, or the one you have is pushing 5 years in age, replace it... I'm in the 'If it ain't broke... don't fix it' camp. Check the tires. Change the oils, plugs... sync the carbs and go for it.....

 

 

One more thing. Every morning while on the trip check those Metzlers. With their history of throwing caps it would be the prudent thing to do.

 

Good points and I caught a Deka battery on sale early this spring but did not take possession. I purchase several batteries a year for my antique semi trucks there and they'll keep it till needed. Prior to the trip I'll rotate it through. I'm thinking the installed battery was new when I purchased the bike in 2010 but knowing it's five years old, no kick starter, and the inherent possibility of once again being able to hear my wife's "I told you so" voice as she offers constructive criticism made purchasing a replacement battery quite easy.

 

The Metzler tires were highly recommended by a buddy with a Gold Wing so went with them. I've always ran Dunlop Elite tires but haven't purchased one in many years. I'll keep an eye on these for sure but they seem to be very smooth in operation.

[Du-Rron]

Please use DOT 4 Brake fluid... not 3.

[Rob Swallows]

Please use DOT 4 Brake fluid... not 3.

 

Please clarify the preference. I've never used DOT 4 and have never had problems with DOT 3. Not being smart azz, just don't know the difference.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

[Flyinfool]

A sticky or dragging clutch when hot is often moisture in the clutch fluid. The engine heat causes the moisture to form air bubbles that will make the clutch not fully disengage. Another good reason to flush and change the clutch fluid and both the front and rear brake fluids.

 

When you check your brake pads, you have to check both the inner and outer pads, they often wear unevenly one can look great and the other can be gone.

 

As far as to whether you use DOT 3 or DOT4, use whichever works best for you. They each have pros and cons.

[Rob Swallows]

A sticky or dragging clutch when hot is often moisture in the clutch fluid. The engine heat causes the moisture to form air bubbles that will make the clutch not fully disengage. Another good reason to flush and change the clutch fluid and both the front and rear brake fluids.

 

When you check your brake pads, you have to check both the inner and outer pads, they often wear unevenly one can look great and the other can be gone.

 

As far as to whether you use DOT 3 or DOT4, use whichever works best for you. They each have pros and cons.

 

Good reasoning as the clutch master is definitely darker than the front brake master through the window. I've not looked at the rear brake master. Brake pads on mine are really quite even in wear. The void between the pad segments is still prominent on inner and outer pads. In reality they are probably about 50% worn, but I'll carry the replacements with me on the trip as they're part of the tool and spare parts kit.

[Flyinfool]

Please clarify the preference. I've never used DOT 4 and have never had problems with DOT 3. Not being smart azz, just don't know the difference.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

 

DOT 4 has a higher boiling point when fresh out of the bottle.

 

Dot 4 also absorbs water faster than DOT 3 and the water will cause either to have a lower boiling point. It does not take long for the DOT 4 boiling point to drop below the boiling point of DOT 3. So IF you are super religious about changing your brake and clutch fluid very regularly then DOT 4 may be a better choice. IF you wait a few years between changes then DOT 3 is probably a better choice. The listed boiling points for DOT 3 and 4 are MINIMUMs, there are DOT 3 fluids with higher boiling points than some DOT 4 fluids.

[Du-Rron]

Please clarify the preference. I've never used DOT 4 and have never had problems with DOT 3. Not being smart azz, just don't know the difference.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

 

DOT4 has better heat handling ability, is recommended by Yamaha, and just plain tastes better!

 

 

Check out why your clutch fluid is darker on page 2 of the following thread by the Yamaha bulliten enclosed.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?97279-Baking-Clutch-Fluid-Exhaust-Heat-Shield

Ignore the DOT3 usage in the bulliten as it was an old bulliten explaining clutch fluid color. DOT4 has supersceded 3.

[BlueSky]

The highest point in Yellowstone Park is about 11k ft. above sea level which lowers the boiling point of any fluid. With riding in the hills and using the brakes more often adding heat, there could be a little more risk of DOT 3 boiling.

 

My wife and I are discussing going to Yellowstone this summer (in a cage unfortunately) and I checked the average temps last night. In July, the average day time high is 72 and low is 40. So, it never gets very warm at that elevation.

[Freebird]

I'm not certain what oil is installed now but when the bike is hot, I really have a difficult time shifting to neutral when setting stopped. Shifting up or down on the roll is easy but much easier when the oil is cold. Also when hot, the clutch drags a bit which doesn't exist when cold. When I purchased it the owner gave me a partial quart of "YamaLube" which I still have. I read someplace on here where a gent preferred Honda branded oil but I always ran Mobil Lubricants and never had problems in my older bikes which has asbestos in the facings. On a side note my clutches were always Barnett due to the extreme usage they'd receive..... I've not tried to stand this one up, (and probably won't) but the crazy days of front wheel up standing on the pegs looking over the front tire and shifting in the air are still fresh. Kids kinda put the kabosh to that type of lifestyle and probably prolonged my existence as a sideline.

 

I agree with the Mobil 1. It's all that I use in my bikes and other vehicles. Do NOT use regular Mobil one for cars though unless it's a weight that is NOT marked energy conserving. That will eventually cause your clutch to slip and probably very soon. All I use in my RSV is Mobil 1 Racing 4T. Specifically made for motorcycles. I am not a fan of YamaLube at all and have seen it cause exactly what you are describing with making it hard to find neutral.

[Rob Swallows]

I don't mind the routine of changing out brake fluid at all. Years ago when it was cheap to rebuild wheel cylinders brake fluid was like rear end lubricant being assumed to last the life of the vehicle. I know better now with some age behind me. I do like the added boiling point of the DOT 4 fluid so very well may go with it as I'll be pulling the trailer w/cargo. I know September still is pretty warm around parts of the country and the added "cushion" or safety factor of the later fluid shouldn't be negated. I always run "low silicate" formulation and distilled water in the coolant and am switching all my lubrication fluids on the trucks to synthetic. The bike can go the same route. My bike has aftermarket "Star" chromed reservoir covers without writing. I've got to download the service manual on the site here for reference soon to clear up some brewing questions.

 

Really appreciate you guy's insight. I'll post up my itinerary once finalized and maybe we can meet up along the way. I don't drink except coffee and water so a small family type restaurant works great for us.

 

Thanks to all.

 

Rob

[videoarizona]

 

Either is fine. I use 20-50 wt dino Yamalube on all 3 of my scoots and they run quieter and shift better. Hard shifting on 2nd gen is either caused by dry shift point linkages (grease them) or water /old fluid in hydraulic system and/or old oil in engine. I can always tell when it's time to change my clutch fluid, gets harder to shift at low speeds...

 

I do run synthetic 80-90 wt in rear end. But that's not an issue either since that is so easy to change...and when you get back from the trip, you should change out the engine oil and rear end oil anyway...

 

I use DOT3 on the 89 VR and DOT4 on my 05 RSV.

 

HOWEVER, I'm not sure that going to a totally different type of engine oil, like synthetic, just before a trip is a good idea. As was mention a few posts up, synthetic could cause some seals to show their wear...and you don't want any issues to show up you weren't expecting. Stay dino if you think it's currently running dino oil. And going from synthetic to dino should not be an issue at all, if what you have in there is synthetic. But since you don't know, I'd stick with dino for the trip. When you get back, then you can change over to synthetic if you wish....

 

[/color]The only issue any of us have had with Metzlers is they tend to lose chunks of tire once in a while. I know one thing, I ALWAYS run my rear tire at or within 2 pounds of the max load pressure on the tire. I had over 10K on Metzler rear before mine chunked a small chunk. That's pretty good for a really heavy scoot like the RSV. I really think keeping the tire pressure up there is the most important thing we can do for our safety as well as maximize tire wear and mpg's.

 

Last, if your brake pads are good and everything else looks good in brake system, I doubt you will have any brake issues then. A good flushing "out the old and in with the new"

is the most important thing anyway with brakes. Keeps most of the other problems at bay...

 

Sounds like you have it all under control!

[Rob Swallows]

Thanks for the tip. I agree on staying with the conventional oil although I've never had a problem with seepage or leakage when switching over. I debated hard on staying with the original Dunlop series tires but my friend was certain the Metzler was a better tire so went with that. I always run them 2lbs below max inflation pressure cold too as I don't like tire "woller" around curves. I'll be changing out those fluids early next week as we are traveling in the car to see family for the holiday weekend.

 

Looks like you were at Incirlik, (sp)? I was there several times in the late 80's working with the air force with data linking between aircraft of the navy and air force. I'm quite familiar with Istanbul as been all over the city remembering the 56 Chevrolet taxi cabs fondly.

[Freebird]

There are many reports here about the Metzler tires chunking. I would never run them but if you do, do NOT run them two pounds below the pressure marked on the sidewalls. Metzler has claimed that is what causes the problem with their tires.

 

Many here will never agree on oil but my experience with YamaLube has been opposite of what was posted above. I hate it. First time I had the oil changed on my brand new, at the time, '99 RSV it was done by the dealer as the first service was included in the deal. I left for a trip and actually stopped and changed it out midway at around 1500 miles. Finding neutral had become difficult and the engine was noisier. I went with Mobil 1 for motorcycles and have never been happier. My bikes shift better and seem to have less engine noise than with other oils that I've tried. Plus, if I go over the miles a bit I don't worry about it. I've talked to many others who experienced the same thing with the Yamalube. Not trying to talk anybody out of it that is happy with it but just relaying my own experience. I will never use it again.

 

The old information about synthetics causing older bikes and cars to leak is no longer true from all the research that I have done. I've personally never had that experience and have read research stating that if it ever was truly an issue, it is no longer the case.

 

One last note about the brake pads. If you haven't done so, pull the caliper and check the inner pad on the rear. These bikes have a tendency to wear out the rear inner pad quicker than the outer pad. More than one person have ruined rotors because they looked only at the outer pad and it was good while the inner pad was almost down to metal.

[vzuden]

We plan to visit Mt. Rushmore, Yellowstone, the Smokey Mountains, and ride the Blue Ridge Parkway

Our International Rally is mid September in West VA. If it works into your schedule it would be great opportunity for you to meet many of our members.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=456&day=2016-9-12&c=1

[videoarizona]

Thanks for the tip. I agree on staying with the conventional oil although I've never had a problem with seepage or leakage when switching over. I debated hard on staying with the original Dunlop series tires but my friend was certain the Metzler was a better tire so went with that. I always run them 2lbs below max inflation pressure cold too as I don't like tire "woller" around curves. I'll be changing out those fluids early next week as we are traveling in the car to see family for the holiday weekend.

 

Looks like you were at Incirlik, (sp)? I was there several times in the late 80's working with the air force with data linking between aircraft of the navy and air force. I'm quite familiar with Istanbul as been all over the city remembering the 56 Chevrolet taxi cabs fondly.

 

Yep..sure was...back in the early 70's. Spent two years in Turkey as a radio announcer/tv director both at Incirlik and Diyarbikir. Fun time.

Found this...may be of help...

 

http://micapeak.com/checklists/mclist.html

 

You can customize the checklist then print it out...at bottom is "make a checklist".

 

@Freebird, didn't know about synthetic no longer causing problems, guess I'm still thinking old school. As for Metzler, well...I've heard about and read responses from them, but the common denominator for chunking from riders seems to be a heavy load, high speed and tire pressure to low. Who really knows since Metzler doesn't seem to respond like a tire manufacturer would with all the issues they have had with chunking. The first indicator of a tire going bad from them is cupping. A few thousand miles later the tire loses pieces. I don't have the answer...but that seems to be the way Metzlers act...

[Freebird]

I'm going to take a step back on my comment that Synthetic oil will NOT cause leaks. I just did some research to refresh my memory and though that it is technically true, it isn't that simple. They say that they early synthetic oils had high contents of esters that could be hard on and deteriorate some types of seals and indeed cause leaks. New synthetics are much different and that is no longer an issue.

 

BUT....while it is claimed that the newer synthetics will not CAUSE leaks, they have been known to FIND leaks. If an older vehicle has some cracked or dried out seals, switching to a synthetic can cause them to start leaking. Many times those old and cracked seals will be clogged by various contaminates from years of use. When you switch to synthetic, the superior cleaning properties can flush that old trash out of the cracks and cause those seals to start leaking. They say that the leaks will usually stop again as more contaminates make their way into the cracks but not always.

 

So, to me that means that yes, switching to synthetics could cause leaks. I don't care what the terminology is. Causing leaks or finding leaks. If it is an old leak that has sealed itself off and synthetics cause it to start leaking again, in my mind, it has caused a leak.

 

That being said, I have never had it happen to me.

[Rob Swallows]

Well, I ran to the Yamaha dealer and picked up a gallon of Honda GN4 oil and a fresh Yamaha oil filter for the bike as per their recommendations also. They have the Yamalube but suggested the Honda oil over it. Also picked up a quart of DOT 4 brake fluid and have at the shop synthetic gear lube, and synthetic wheel bearing grease. I will get a good look at those brake pads to ensure I don't destroy a rotor for sure. They also market carburetor kits which are only the gaskets and seals for $27.00 each kit so I'm going to take the carbs off, break them down and probably replace all the gaskets and seals along with the parts already ordered. I want it right so no waste here.

 

I'd like to get it broken into prior to leaving for our family get together so if I fine additional needed parts they can be ordered by Friday to arrive on Tuesday, or Wednesday with the holiday in there.

[M61A1MECH]

Good choice on the Honda GN4 oil, I ran that for years in my 98 Royal Star and then one day for who knows what reason I switched to Yamalube, with in 1oo miles the clutch started slipping, changed it out back to the gN4 and it was better, but still required that I change out the clutch pack to fix it so it would not slip and never did slip again for the next 60,000 + miles I had the bike. Like Freebird I do not like it and will not use it.

 

On the Metzlers, check the Metzler web site for their fitment guide , they will give you their recommended pressure, which is higher than the factory recommendations from Yamaha for the stock Bridgestones that come on the Venture. I ran Dunlop E-3s on my Venture and really liked them and got great mileage out of them.

 

Good luck on your trip.