Tuning the progressive springs.

[Flyinfool]

Still not to bad.

The only plastic I had to pull to do neck bearings was the same as for springs plus the front fender. I do not have the lower fairings on the bike or you might have to pull those to.

[camos]

That sounds very straight forward. Of course I will have to replace the seals and bushings so it all has to come apart. Oh yea, and the steering neck bearings, so dern. I'm not going to get off that easy. I think I'm in for pulling a bunch of plastic just to get to it all.

Last week I pulled the forks to re-pack the head bearings and install some gaiters and did not find it necessary to remove any of the fairing. The pinch bolts for the lower triple tree clamp are just clear when the steering is hard over. The upper clamp bolts are a little bit painful to get at with a 1/4" ratchet and 12 mm socket. As FF said, removing the little grills is all that is necessary. Smaller hands would be useful here but I managed with my mudhooks.

 

I have a question for those who have recently pulled the forks from the air lines. There is a pin on the right collar that must be aligned with a "groove" on the triple clamp but I could not find one on the left collar. Did I miss it somehow? Doesn't make sense to me for there to be only one.

[Flyinfool]

It may not make any sense, but there is only one.

[camos]

It may not make any sense, but there is only one.

Mama Yamaha does it again.

Thanks Jeff.

[CaseyJ955]

Last week I pulled the forks to re-pack the head bearings and install some gaiters and did not find it necessary to remove any of the fairing. The pinch bolts for the lower triple tree clamp are just clear when the steering is hard over. The upper clamp bolts are a little bit painful to get at with a 1/4" ratchet and 12 mm socket. As FF said, removing the little grills is all that is necessary. Smaller hands would be useful here but I managed with my mudhooks.

 

I have a question for those who have recently pulled the forks from the air lines. There is a pin on the right collar that must be aligned with a "groove" on the triple clamp but I could not find one on the left collar. Did I miss it somehow? Doesn't make sense to me for there to be only one.

 

Thats good to know, I thought I was going to be stripping off ALL that plastic. I feel better about doing it now. Still waiting on my order from boats.com, then I have everything I need. I guess I better get the tires ordered now.

 

Thank you!

[syscrusher]

I have a question for those who have recently pulled the forks from the air lines. There is a pin on the right collar that must be aligned with a "groove" on the triple clamp but I could not find one on the left collar. Did I miss it somehow? Doesn't make sense to me for there to be only one.

 

What? I replaced my fork tubes last year and I don't remember seeing any pin and groove?? There are retaining RINGs that go around the fork tubes in a groove to position the air collars, but where is this PIN again? I have a 1993, is this a Gen 1.1 thing?

 

BTW, I looked at the spacer with the Progressives and I looked at the one with the o-ring and they were so close that I went with the OEM metal one. The way I read the instructions they didn't say use both and I thought the metal one was better being more wear resistant and fitted to the ID of the tube. Then again the fork on my VN2K pogos around through residential intersections with the rain channels and stuff and I still ride it like a madman so I probably wouldn't know good suspension if I sat on some of it sometime. I thought my old buddie's PE400 was like riding a damn cloud and it's been reviled for having the worst suspension of any dirt machine (ever?) My DR650 is amazing and the Venture is good, nice even, better than I expected. My LazyBoy recliner has good suspension but I doubt if it corners all that well. I have Progressives and RaceTech Gold Valves ready to do to the VN2K sometime, but right now the Venture is at the head of the queue for a number of repairs, tweaks, and improvements that won't be noticed by anyone but me.

[camos]

What? I replaced my fork tubes last year and I don't remember seeing any pin and groove?? There are retaining RINGs that go around the fork tubes in a groove to position the air collars, but where is this PIN again? I have a 1993, is this a Gen 1.1 thing?

The pin is on the right air collar located just below the top triple clamp. The "groove" is on the top triple clamp. The pin acts as a locator for the right collar which otherwise would float on the right fork. The weird thing is the left collar does not have a locator pin. The only justification I can think of to have a locator on the collar is to align the air hole but since the collar is a larger diameter than the fork tube, the air holes don't need to be lined up. If there is a reason for this I can't think of it.

[Flyinfool]

Its not really a pin, it is a squarish bump on the triple tree that goes into a squarish notch in the collar. (Or was it the other way around?) The only reason I can see for its existence is to align the two air hoses that connect to it. The collar on the left side only has one air hose and the length of that air hose pretty much determines where that collar must be. If the length of the air hose changes slightly (manufacturing tolerances,) that left collar will need to rotate slightly to accommodate the length difference.

 

When you assembled yours not knowing that the bump and notch were there, you might have just got lucky and they landed in place. If the bump is not in the notch the fork tube will not go all the way into the triple tree, it will be sitting about 1/4 inch low. That was how I found out about the bump and notch.

[camos]

Its not really a pin, it is a squarish bump on the triple tree that goes into a squarish notch in the collar. (Or was it the other way around?) The only reason I can see for its existence is to align the two air hoses that connect to it. The collar on the left side only has one air hose and the length of that air hose pretty much determines where that collar must be. If the length of the air hose changes slightly (manufacturing tolerances,) that left collar will need to rotate slightly to accommodate the length difference.

OK so it is a square pin that goes into a square notch. Your assessment does make sense though.

 

When you assembled yours not knowing that the bump and notch were there, you might have just got lucky and they landed in place. If the bump is not in the notch the fork tube will not go all the way into the triple tree, it will be sitting about 1/4 inch low. That was how I found out about the bump and notch.

Not so lucky, I assembled the forks and then discovered the locator pin so had to re-do it. Spent some time trying to find a matching one on the left collar but to no avail so just carried on. As for the forks not going all the way into the clamp, that did not happen. Probably depends on whether the pin is clear of the clamp or poking into it. The Devil is always in the details.

[syscrusher]

Its not really a pin, it is a squarish bump on the triple tree that goes into a squarish notch in the collar. (Or was it the other way around?) The only reason I can see for its existence is to align the two air hoses that connect to it. The collar on the left side only has one air hose and the length of that air hose pretty much determines where that collar must be. If the length of the air hose changes slightly (manufacturing tolerances,) that left collar will need to rotate slightly to accommodate the length difference.

 

When you assembled yours not knowing that the bump and notch were there, you might have just got lucky and they landed in place. If the bump is not in the notch the fork tube will not go all the way into the triple tree, it will be sitting about 1/4 inch low. That was how I found out about the bump and notch.

 

Oh, now that you describe it that way there was a plastic ring that fit the TT a certain way as I recall and corresponding shapes on the right side air collar. I decided to go and have a look just now though. Now I see the "pin" and the plastic ring on the right side but on the left side I see a gap between the air collar and the TT - uh oh.

 

I was very happy to hear about there only being one odd thing on the right side because when I was taking off the front fairing parts I discovered another one of those plastic rings and started thinking that I had leftover parts from my fork tube replacement last year. Now I'm pretty sure that other plastic piece had been stuck on the TT until I wasn't looking and then bailed. At any rate the CLASS is working well and I don't see anything that would make me want to try fixing something that works right now. That is unless someone knows of a reason to put that piece in there that I don't know?

 

I suppose it's part 75 on the "Front Fork" fiche?

 

75 GASKET

 

26H-23163-00-00

 

 

 

[Flyinfool]

IF the air collars are tight against the snap ring that is under them then you now have unequal length forks by the thickness of the plastic ring. You could be bending the front axle or the front wheel may not be square in the forks. I do now that if the front axle were to break it would be really bad. I do not know what handling issues there may be from the front wheel not being straight up and down.

 

Check the tops of the fork tubes to see if they are both the same height above the triple tree. If they are different then I would fix it. If they are the same then maybe just put a hose clamp or something similar under the air collar to be sure that it does not drop with a bump in the road suddenly letting all of the air out of the front.

 

Yes it will be a PITA to put that back in there.

[syscrusher]

IF the air collars are tight against the snap ring that is under them then you now have unequal length forks by the thickness of the plastic ring. You could be bending the front axle or the front wheel may not be square in the forks. I do now that if the front axle were to break it would be really bad. I do not know what handling issues there may be from the front wheel not being straight up and down.

 

Check the tops of the fork tubes to see if they are both the same height above the triple tree. If they are different then I would fix it. If they are the same then maybe just put a hose clamp or something similar under the air collar to be sure that it does not drop with a bump in the road suddenly letting all of the air out of the front.

 

Yes it will be a PITA to put that back in there.

 

Thanks Jeff, but the tops of the fork tubes are flush with their triple trees and I went through the alignment procedure so that's all good. It's just that there's nothing but air pressure and stichion to prevent the air collar on the left side from moving and letting out the air. I was just now thinking the right width zip-tie might just fill that gap though and save me the hassle of re-doing things on the left until other stuff needs to be done too. It just requires slipping the left fork tube out of the top TT but that means R&R front wheel, fender, fender guard, fork brace, etc. It's the fork brace that'll be a PITA more than anything else. There was a lot of fuzting around involved in installing it the way I did.

[CaseyJ955]

Thanks Jeff, but the tops of the fork tubes are flush with their triple trees and I went through the alignment procedure so that's all good. It's just that there's nothing but air pressure and stichion to prevent the air collar on the left side from moving and letting out the air. I was just now thinking the right width zip-tie might just fill that gap though and save me the hassle of re-doing things on the left until other stuff needs to be done too. It just requires slipping the left fork tube out of the top TT but that means R&R front wheel, fender, fender guard, fork brace, etc. It's the fork brace that'll be a PITA more than anything else. There was a lot of fuzting around involved in installing it the way I did.

 

Nice pic of the correct color bike . I like the fork bellows but mine has some sort of corny looking chrome shields in front of the fork tubes, I spose I'll leave them alone for now. Off topic but I'm getting ready to mount the exact same horns you have there on yours, did you need to upgrade the relay and all to make it work correctly or is it just a plug and play, I always do the relay with the air horns but with these, not sure if it's needed.

 

I found a puddle under the chin of my bike today, the fork oil is actually leaking from the seal, onto and down the back of the fender and dripping to the ground. All the parts are here and ordering the tires now to get her all done. Thanks for all the ideas on how to set them up for low speed precision.

[bongobobny]

There is NO horn relay on any Venture 1st gen or 2nd. However, the stock horn wires work PERFECT to trigger the relay. Use at least a 30A relay, 12 or 14 gauge wire, and an inline fuse from the battery directly to the relay...

 

PS instead, buy WOLO "Bad Boy" air horns or Steibel ones, same horn, they are REALLY loud!!

[yamagrl]

Nice pic of the correct color bike . I like the fork bellows but mine has some sort of corny looking chrome shields in front of the fork tubes, I spose I'll leave them alone for now. Off topic but I'm getting ready to mount the exact same horns you have there on yours, did you need to upgrade the relay and all to make it work correctly or is it just a plug and play, I always do the relay with the air horns but with these, not sure if it's needed.

 

I found a puddle under the chin of my bike today, the fork oil is actually leaking from the seal, onto and down the back of the fender and dripping to the ground. All the parts are here and ordering the tires now to get her all done. Thanks for all the ideas on how to set them up for low speed precision.

Try to prevent the fork oil from getting on the brake pads. It will ruin the pads and most people feel it's best to replace them because it is nearly impossible to get oil out of the pads. Someone on here may have a method.

 

Better safe than sorry.

 

Turn the front wheel one way or the other might help

[camos]

It's just that there's nothing but air pressure and stichion to prevent the air collar on the left side from moving and letting out the air. I was just now thinking the right width zip-tie might just fill that gap though and save me the hassle of re-doing things on the left until other stuff needs to be done too.

When I re-did the forks on my 89 VR I pushed both of the forks into the triple-tree until they were stopped by the air collars which were stopped by the spring clip below them. The top of the forks were very slightly proud at the top of the triple-tree. There was no plastic ring involved. I have not looked at the parts fiche to see if the 89 is missing something because it went together so naturally that it never occurred to me that something was missing.

 

I'm not understanding references to spaces in this area. The left collar cannot move up or down but it can rotate as FF described. The two o-rings in the collar should seal the air even if the collar does rotate.

[syscrusher]

When I re-did the forks on my 89 VR I pushed both of the forks into the triple-tree until they were stopped by the air collars which were stopped by the spring clip below them. The top of the forks were very slightly proud at the top of the triple-tree. There was no plastic ring involved. I have not looked at the parts fiche to see if the 89 is missing something because it went together so naturally that it never occurred to me that something was missing.

 

I'm not understanding references to spaces in this area. The left collar cannot move up or down but it can rotate as FF described. The two o-rings in the collar should seal the air even if the collar does rotate.

 

I posted a photo of either side with the left side showing a gap that the air collar could slide up to and release air on MY VR.

Is that not visible to others?

 

Anyway, I put a tie-wrap in the gap that will stop casual riding up until theres time to fix it all nicely (correctly).

[Flyinfool]

When I re-did the forks on my 89 VR I pushed both of the forks into the triple-tree until they were stopped by the air collars which were stopped by the spring clip below them. The top of the forks were very slightly proud at the top of the triple-tree. There was no plastic ring involved. I have not looked at the parts fiche to see if the 89 is missing something because it went together so naturally that it never occurred to me that something was missing.

 

I'm not understanding references to spaces in this area. The left collar cannot move up or down but it can rotate as FF described. The two o-rings in the collar should seal the air even if the collar does rotate.

 

Not that there is an interesting idea.

There is supposed to be a plastic collar between the triple tree and the air collar. BUT by leaving that out it will lower the front end by about 1/4 inch and will leave the fork tubes slightly proud of the triple tree. My fork tubes with the plastic collar are slightly recessed into the triple tree. This should help to improve the low speed handling. which is exactly what I was trying to do by shortening the spring spacers.

 

Now I wonder if I can get those plastic collars out by sliding both forks down enough to get it out without having to remove the calipers, front wheel, fender and brace. If I was sure that removal is what I want I could just cut them off fairly easy and then just push the fork tubes up till the air color hits the TT. Many people with 2nd gens raise the forks in the TT for better low speed handling.

 

HHhmmmmmmmmmmmm...........................

[camos]

Not that there is an interesting idea.

There is supposed to be a plastic collar between the triple tree and the air collar. BUT by leaving that out it will lower the front end by about 1/4 inch and will leave the fork tubes slightly proud of the triple tree. My fork tubes with the plastic collar are slightly recessed into the triple tree. This should help to improve the low speed handling. which is exactly what I was trying to do by shortening the spring spacers.

When I removed the forks the air collars were left to hang where they were. When re-installing the forks were pushed through the collars before being inserted into the top triple-tree. This all happened pretty much in the dark under the fairing. Ignorance is bliss so it is quite possible there either was or was not a separate part between the collar and the upper triple-clamp. The parts fiche does show part number 74 identified as a gasket but I don't know if it was there or not. The forks are proud from the top of the forks by less than 1/16", as I recall. Unfortunately my recall is rather suspect at times.

 

I would have looked at it closer before writing this response but the bike is at the fabricators getting some new enhanced crash guards. I will hopefully be getting it back today or early tomorrow as I have to work tomorrow afternoon. In any case, when I get it back I'll try to get a pic of each fork in that area so we can see what parts are actually there.

[syscrusher]

Not that there is an interesting idea.

There is supposed to be a plastic collar between the triple tree and the air collar. BUT by leaving that out it will lower the front end by about 1/4 inch and will leave the fork tubes slightly proud of the triple tree. My fork tubes with the plastic collar are slightly recessed into the triple tree. This should help to improve the low speed handling. which is exactly what I was trying to do by shortening the spring spacers.

 

Now I wonder if I can get those plastic collars out by sliding both forks down enough to get it out without having to remove the calipers, front wheel, fender and brace. If I was sure that removal is what I want I could just cut them off fairly easy and then just push the fork tubes up till the air color hits the TT. Many people with 2nd gens raise the forks in the TT for better low speed handling.

 

HHhmmmmmmmmmmmm...........................

 

It seems like that could work. As I remember the spacing collar has a blocky surface that fit with the top of the air collar in some way as can be seen in my right side photo. I wonder what they (spacers) are really there for?

[camos]

When I removed the forks the air collars were left to hang where they were. When re-installing the forks were pushed through the collars before being inserted into the top triple-tree. This all happened pretty much in the dark under the fairing. Ignorance is bliss so it is quite possible there either was or was not a separate part between the collar and the upper triple-clamp. The parts fiche does show part number 74 identified as a gasket but I don't know if it was there or not. The forks are proud from the top of the forks by less than 1/16", as I recall. Unfortunately my recall is rather suspect at times.

Here are some pix of the fork air collar. I could not get a good angle without removing the fairing so I'm not sure they will be helpful. It looks to me that there is a spacer piece on each side though.

 

 

 

The collar is sitting on the spring clip and the fork cap appears to be properly positioned at the top so there isn't any way to get it wrong.

[garyS-NJ]

oddly enough, I replaced a pair of progressives springs with progressive springs.. Got the bike last year, didn't know what was up front but did know she dives when I hit the front brakes and I had a lot of snake weave at high speeds.. so I bought the progressives and went to install and found a white PVC spacer same as that provided with the progressives (about 1.5" long) and springs same length as my progressives.. the springs were also the same length and have the dense coiling on one end like my new progressives, but I'd swear the coiling spirals were opposite my new progressives (maybe the beers had something to do with this). So I installed my new progressives and the 1.5" PVC spacers provided with the springs. Note that the long spacers for stock springs were obviously not installed, and the stock 1 " aluminum spacer also not there...just springs, the 1.5" PVC spacer, and the 17mm hex plug cap. this provided me the Progressive recommended preload (one inch) but now I'm fuzzy and wondering, is there an o-ring on the 17mm hex plug cap, or is the sealing o-ring on that oem aluminum spacer (not clear on the parts fische). CAN ANYONE VERIFY THE SEALING O-RING

 

oh, and as for low speed ride, I didn't notice a difference (not that good but OK) but that's because I had the same ride height springs/spacers in there.. I did notice however, that I get a lot of high speed snake weave as I increase air in the front forks (this is what I'm battling). fork dive got better with the progressives but, I think I need to adjust the antidives..

[camos]

Note that the long spacers for stock springs were obviously not installed, and the stock 1 " aluminum spacer also not there...just springs, the 1.5" PVC spacer, and the 17mm hex plug cap. this provided me the Progressive recommended preload (one inch) but now I'm fuzzy and wondering, is there an o-ring on the 17mm hex plug cap, or is the sealing o-ring on that oem aluminum spacer (not clear on the parts fische). CAN ANYONE VERIFY THE SEALING O-RING

The aluminum spacer thing is called a cap in the parts fiche and it definitely does have an o-ring on it. The 17 mm hex plug is called a Bolt, cap in the parts fiche and also has an o-ring on it. If your bolt cap does not have an o-ring does it have a recess where an o-ring might logically fit?

 

At least that is how I remember it however, I'm also getting fuzzy on it even though it was only two weeks ago that I had my forks apart. sigh....

 

oh, and as for low speed ride, I didn't notice a difference (not that good but OK) but that's because I had the same ride height springs/spacers in there.. I did notice however, that I get a lot of high speed snake weave as I increase air in the front forks (this is what I'm battling). fork dive got better with the progressives but, I think I need to adjust the antidives..

Weaving on the tar snakes can be caused by an under inflated tire and loose head bearings. Although I can't say as a fact but if the forks were acting differently from each other it would seem likely that also might cause weaving. There are the anti-dives which need to act in unison. If one was plugged up then there would be a difference in pressure from one side to the other.

 

There is also the amount of air pressure from one side to the other which should be compensated by the equalizer hose between the forks. If one side was leaking only under pressure during normal riding then it might possibly cause a weave before equalizing could take place.

[CaseyJ955]

I didnt quite know where to slip this in, but I finally got back and am doing the forks, head bearings and progressives. I'm stuck on removing the forks, or the lowers. I had to use an impact to run out the cartridge bolts (?) from the ends of the forks and I know I have to use the lower as a slide hammer to remove itself. I've been out there banging on those darn things for quite a while and they will NOT budge.

 

I know not to hammer them upward, only downward, but it's having no effect. What could I be missing?

 

EDIT, they finally came off, took quite a bit of fudging. Oddly enough I do believe it already has progressive springs, aside from being around 0.25" shorter they are virtually identical to the new progressives. Oh well, in they go anyway, I'm assuming these that came out have all the value of used dental floss, also I believe when they put them in they ignored any other fork service.

Edited September 18, 2016 by CaseyJ955

[luvmy40]

Late to the game as usual---

 

My '83 handles like a dream at low speeds and is as stable as can be at highway speed. The problem is there is only about 2" travel on the fork tubes and she bottoms out if I look at a bump in the road.

 

My local Venture guru told me to install progressive springs and ad an extra 50cc of 10w oil, no air.

 

So, who make st the best progressive springs? Is the 12.5w oil recommended for the newer bikes or is it a general "upgrade" I should consider?

 

Thanks!