Tuning the progressive springs.

[Flyinfool]

OK, So I got my progressives installed and they are way better than the worn out stock springs.

I used the full 1 inch plastic spacers, and the the OEM aluminum spacer with the O-ring on it. The front of the bike is now about 1.5 inches higher than it was before with zero air in the front.

The biggest issue I have now is low speed handling, trying to ride at a walking speed is almost impossible for me now, With the old saggy springs I could ride to a stop and go and not have to put my feet down. I cave tried every combination of how much rear brake and clutch feathering to try to stabilize but to no avail. The bike just now feels really top heavy. I have almost dropped it twice coming to a stop.

 

I am wondering if I take out some or most of the spacer, will that lower the front end and give me back some of my low speed handling. Kind of like many seem to do with the 2nd gens by going with a smaller front tire or sliding the forks up in the tree.

 

I just have never played with bike suspension so I do not know what changes will have what effect. I don't want to fix the low and create a high speed issue.

[Wizard765]

I know I cut the plastic spacer in half that came with those springs and the bike handled great.. I think with the whole thing in Plus the original it is way too much preload..

[BlueSky]

I'm doing this soon. Sounds like taking 1 1/2" of spacers would bring it to the pre-existing height and it should be stiffer than before. Or maybe move the fork legs up in the clamps to lower the bike. Let us (me) know what you do because I'm very interested. The bike is too heavy to raise the COG.

[Flyinfool]

I know I cut the plastic spacer in half that came with those springs and the bike handled great.. I think with the whole thing in Plus the original it is way too much preload..

 

I do not have the 4 inch long OEM spacer The spacer I am referring to is item 28,60 and its O-ring

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately you can not easily raise the tubes in the clamps.

To do that you would have to permanently get rid of the CLASS or air system for the front and seal (weld?) the air holes in the tubes closed. Then you could remove the air collars (item 68, 69 and 74 in above pic) and be able to slide the tubes up in the clamps, and i don't remember if there is even room to do that before the tubes would hit the hit the handle bars.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Flyinfool

[GaryZ]

I recommend removing the plastic spacer and only using the aluminum one with the o-ring. This will lower the front end around 3/4" and should get your feet on the ground. If the front is too soft, you can add a little air.

 

Setting up a motorcycle suspension is dependent on the rider and his/her needs/wants. My starting point is to adjust the spring pre-load for for at least 1" of sag when you sit down on the seat. I also will "bounce" on the seat and adjust so both the front and back move together and about the same distance. I then ride around at a low damping rate and add damping until I like the ride.

 

Adjusting the sag is easy with the air suspension on the VR. Damping takes a bit more effort. The VR back has a damping adjust, the front requires changing the fork oil weight or the amount of oil.

[Wizard765]

I didn't use the oem spacer either but the aluminum piece with the "O" ring and half the spacer that came with the kit.. worked perfect. the new spring is longer than the OEM

[KIC]

I don't remember the exact size I used, but I think I cut mine in half. I can't believe you were able to screw the top back on with the whole 1-inch. I remember mine being tight with 1/2-inch.

[bongobobny]

Try a smaller diameter tire like the 2nd gen people do for low speed handling!

 

Yes, from what I remember 6 years ago I cut the progressive spacers in half...

[yamagrl]

Jeff,

 

Squidley and I did mine last fall at his house during SETexas Fall MD.

 

I used only the top washer (I think it's item 14 in your picture above) and 1 inch of preload only. We did not reinstall the aluminum spacer with the Oring. No air.

 

Even with this small amount of preload it was IMPOSSIBLE TO CONTROL at low/creeping speeds. When I got back home I immediately replaced the 1 inch preload with 1/2 inch preload that I cut from the same diameter pvc pipe. I found it easier to cut the pvc on a chop/miter saw than to fool around trying to cut an already small piece in half.

 

I was not worried about having too little preload because Venturous Randy had stated that he used Zero preload with his progressives because of some condition he referred to as being "inseam challenged". Big Red rides perfectly and has never bottomed out.

 

I'm about 5-10 and approaching 180. (Don't ever tell anyone I said that...I'll deny every word of it!).

 

As we speak, Big Red is in my shop for fork seals, Mk2 lower fork tubes, blue-dots, de-link, SS lines. I have all of the parts, etc., just awaiting freetime.

 

Get rid of the aluminum spacer and shorten the preload. You'll be just fine and you'll love the ride. Another benefit to going to the opposite extreme is that you will have a high and a low standard of comparison.

Edited June 22, 2016 by yamagrl

[Venturous Randy]

As Yamagirl noted, I did not use any preload and no air and I have not had any bottoming with Progressives. I also sealed the air holes in the fork tubes and raised the tubes as much as I could without hitting the grills above them. This is with MKII forks and I have not hooked up the electric anti dives. I do have some timer relays I am considering that can be adjusted up to ten seconds and that would allow me to have anti dives during quick braking, but would not have the constant drain on the electrical system if having to hold the front brake for a longer time.

This is the earlier post on the timers, but I have yet to install them. Even with the anti dives not currently hooked up, I have yet to have the bike bottom out.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?96144-Electronic-guru-s-relay-with-a-timer

 

Randy

Edited June 23, 2016 by Venturous Randy

[Flyinfool]

I don't remember the exact size I used, but I think I cut mine in half. I can't believe you were able to screw the top back on with the whole 1-inch. I remember mine being tight with 1/2-inch.

 

I never said it was easy to get it back in there with that much preload. Good thing I am an old grey fat man............... Tonnage rules............

 

 

 

OK, so from the combination of all the advice above I will start by removing the plastic spacer and leave in the factory aluminum one with the O-ring. I will try this configuration for a while to see how it works. This should drop the front end to almost the height that it was before. this way I can always add more spacer back in if needed.

I do have the anti dive still hooked up and will keep it for now. If I like the handling I will dig back in and try with the AD disconnected. I may compromise and try the 10 second relay idea.

[cowpuc]

I found 3/4 inch preload, 12.5wt Bell Ray and no air on my progressives to be PERFECT but I am taller and better looking then Fool, Randy and Bongo... The End

[yamagrl]

I found 3/4 inch preload, 12.5wt Bell Ray and no air on my progressives to be PERFECT but I am taller and better looking then Fool, Randy and Bongo... The End

 

 

​Okay then...

[Marcarl]

I found 3/4 inch preload, 12.5wt Bell Ray and no air on my progressives to be PERFECT but I am taller and better looking then Fool, Randy and Bongo... The End

When I had my 85 I did a no pre-load, nothing! worked fantastic. I also Fooled around with some, and a lot of pre-load, liked neither,,, the fooled, the lot or the some. And I'm glad Puc stopped when he did, but I do feel a bit of being outside the club type thing.

[Flyinfool]

I found 3/4 inch preload, 12.5wt Bell Ray and no air on my progressives to be PERFECT but I am taller and better looking then Fool, Randy and Bongo... The End

 

Well Puc at least you are hitting 50% in your delusional state. I will give you that you are taller than me.....

 

I do have the 12.5W oil in there.

[bongobobny]

I found 3/4 inch preload, 12.5wt Bell Ray and no air on my progressives to be PERFECT but I am taller and better looking then Fool, Randy and Bongo... The End

A legend in his own mind...

[cowpuc]

I found 3/4 inch preload, 12.5wt Bell Ray and no air on my progressives to be PERFECT but I am taller and better looking then Fool, Randy, Bongo and Marcarl - my always winning the hugging contests proves the better looking part... The End

 

When I had my 85 I did a no pre-load, nothing! worked fantastic. I also Fooled around with some, and a lot of pre-load, liked neither,,, the fooled, the lot or the some. And I'm glad Puc stopped when he did, but I do feel a bit of being outside the club type thing.

 

Feel better now?

[Flyinfool]

Well better late than never.

Today I finally got around to adjusting the preload.

I measured the spacers as is at 1.094 long.

So I cut one in half with an 093 cutter I ended up wit new spacers at exactly .500 long. I put these in and went for a ride.

The first thing I noticed was that the windshield now clears the door of the shed by about a quarter inch. It was rubbing before.

The slow speed handling is much improved, but not quite what I am after. I did not get a chance to hit any curves at more than 30 MPH so I will have to wait till tomorrows trip into work to try out handling at higher speeds. I will likely leave it like this for a month just to get used to it and see if I want to take the spacers out all together.

 

I really never thought that a half inch would make this much of a difference in handling.

[CaseyJ955]

This is interesting as I'm getting ready to do mine. Last time I installed Progressives on similar forks I measured the factory preload and matched it by cutting the plastic spacers and the results are great. Not sure if thats a solid plan for a Venture but I guess we'll find out.

[Flyinfool]

I don't know it it would work to try to measure the factory preload. The factory springs are a bout 6 inches shorter than the progressives and wound from much thinner wire.

[CaseyJ955]

I don't know it it would work to try to measure the factory preload. The factory springs are a bout 6 inches shorter than the progressives and wound from much thinner wire.

 

6" is a pretty huge variance. I just opened the box and riffled through the papers and the only note in there specific to the Royale was "needed spacers are provided". So if it's that much longer is the idea not to use the OEM metal one, just the PVC spacers included with the springs? With the Vmax I had to cut those PVC spacers, before pulling the forks apart the idea was to measure how far the springs were over the top of the tree with the top of the forks opened up and no weight on them. I cut the PVC spacers to match that and it worked very well.

 

This is only my 2nd set of Progressives so I'm a little green at this fudging with preload thing. I would like to soften it up, its very harsh now but I want ride height to remain stock, I'm so unbelievably statuesque I can totally flatfoot a stock Venture .

 

This is the video I followed when I did my Vmax, Morley did it here, same guy that suggested synth import atf as the juice.

 

Is the Venture really so different other than the anti-dive solenoids?

[Flyinfool]

Based on that video the venture forks are a lot different than the V-Max forks.

[CaseyJ955]

Based on that video the venture forks are a lot different than the V-Max forks.

 

I was afraid they would be. The venture is considerably heavier, has antidives and is for a whole different style of riding. I'm pretty good with tools but I wont lie, that video made it a heck of a lot easier to do the Vmax forks in a reasonable amount of time.

[Flyinfool]

The venture is easy to do springs, It literally took longer to get all of the tools jacks and stuff out and put away than it did to do the job. Changing the springs is an easy half hour job if you take your time and down a few wet ones while working on it.

 

Once the bike is jacked up off the ground.

Let all the air out of the front suspension.

Pull the drain plugs on each fork.

2 screws to remove the plastic ignition switch cover and one connector for the cruise control lights.

2 big nuts to get off the plate that the Ignition cover was attached to.

1 screw each to remove the fill pieces from the fairing.

1 clamp bolt on each handlebar.

Pull off the rubber cap on the top of each fork.

17mm hex driver to remove the fork cap.

Pull out old spring and spacers.

Put drain plugs back in.

Fill with oil to proper level.

Drop in new spring and spacers.

Reassemble in reverse order of how it came apart.

Go for ride.

 

Literally the longest part of the job is waiting for the old oil to drain out. But you can be working on a cold one during that time.

[CaseyJ955]

The venture is easy to do springs, It literally took longer to get all of the tools jacks and stuff out and put away than it did to do the job. Changing the springs is an easy half hour job if you take your time and down a few wet ones while working on it.

 

Once the bike is jacked up off the ground.

Let all the air out of the front suspension.

Pull the drain plugs on each fork.

2 screws to remove the plastic ignition switch cover and one connector for the cruise control lights.

2 big nuts to get off the plate that the Ignition cover was attached to.

1 screw each to remove the fill pieces from the fairing.

1 clamp bolt on each handlebar.

Pull off the rubber cap on the top of each fork.

17mm hex driver to remove the fork cap.

Pull out old spring and spacers.

Put drain plugs back in.

Fill with oil to proper level.

Drop in new spring and spacers.

Reassemble in reverse order of how it came apart.

Go for ride.

 

Literally the longest part of the job is waiting for the old oil to drain out. But you can be working on a cold one during that time.

 

That sounds very straight forward. Of course I will have to replace the seals and bushings so it all has to come apart. Oh yea, and the steering neck bearings, so dern. I'm not going to get off that easy. I think I'm in for pulling a bunch of plastic just to get to it all.