Possible final drive failure.. I think :(

[stereomind]

Hey folks.

 

So I'm still having some issues with this high mileage '03 RSV. Got the oil leaks under control, it seems, but now I got the call from the owner as he was loading the poor thing on the trailer on the side of the road.

 

It seems something in the final drive gave up the ghost. It shifts into gear just fine, and at first, feels like it's gonna pull ok, but then all power to the rear wheel goes away and gears start grinding.. I'm pretty sure it's coming from the final and (crossing fingers) not the middle gear. U-joint appears OK, from what I can see past the dust boot.

 

I'm ready to order another used final assembly off ebay, but wanted to hear if anyone had similar symptoms. The bike is not in my garage so I can't easily take a look at it right now, but I'll probably go load it up and haul it back tonight.

Are these finals prone to issues? Granted, this one has 122K on it.

 

Also, what years are compatible? According to part numbers, it seems '99 and up is the same.. Is this correct?

 

 

Thanks!

 

Vlad

[Du-Rron]

take a look at the driveshaft splines and the hub splines

[Flyinfool]

For starters 122k is not really considered high mileage on these bikes.

 

While it is not common I have read of cases where the input end of the pinion gear has snapped off. But this failure is much more common on the V-Max with its higher torque and horse power.

 

Many people have chosen to change their Venture rear ends (3.33 rear ratio) to a V-max rear end (3.67 gear ratio) to get the slightly different gearing. And on the other end the V-max guys seem to like to swap to Venture rear ends for the slower gearing.

 

Before I would start ordering expensive parts I would take it apart for a look see. There are a few things it could be. None of which are common failures.

[RedRider]

Yes, '99 and newer are compatible.

 

Mine went out at about 80k miles although it didn't leave me stranded. One of the pinion bearings was going out and the additional noise made me know to change it out. Replaced it with a left over from a trike conversion. Going strong at 140k.

 

I do, however, have a spare for when/if the current final drive goes out at 200k miles or so.

 

RR

[stereomind]

Thanks for the input, guys. I think we're gonna go get the bike tonight and I'll be able to properly diagnose it then.

 

Peace,

 

Vlad

[Carbon_One]

I have a carrier assembly taken from my 09. 10k on it when pulled for the trike conversion. PM me if interested or for more info. Larry

[MiCarl]

take a look at the driveshaft splines and the hub splines

 

Yep!

 

Neglect of proper lube in those places are the most common failures. Particularly the splines between the rear hub and wheel.

[stereomind]

Oh hi Carl! I still have my XJ...

 

I'll check the splines tonight. Waiting on truck and trailer so we can bring the bike back to my house.

 

peace

 

Vlad

 

Yep!

 

Neglect of proper lube in those places are the most common failures. Particularly the splines between the rear hub and wheel.

[stereomind]

Three guesses what's wrong with this driveshaft... :D:D

 

 

peace

 

Vlad

[stereomind]

And a follow-up question.. Would a '96-97 driveshaft and final fit on an '03?

 

Thanks!

 

Vlad

 

edit: nevermind, looking at ebay, and seller is um... misinformed about year models

Edited June 4, 2016 by stereomind

[MiCarl]

That looks like the final drive end of the shaft to me. Do I have that right?

 

Those splines should be picking up lubrication from the final drive. If the final has been run without oil you might want to look at swapping the whole thing.

[Flyinfool]

 

AND you have to think that all of those metal savings are now inside of the rear end and rear bearings. I agree with MiCarl if the rear was run with no oil I would not trust anything inside of it.

 

I would also be looking over everything on the bike real close to check for other areas of never getting any maintenance.

[stereomind]

I ordered a complete final assembly, drive shaft and all. Not gonna take any chances. The receiving splines in the final look marginally better than the driveshaft.. time to chunk this one in the trash.

 

Peace

 

Vlad

[Flyinfool]

Just curious.

Is there any oil in the old rear end?

Was it a case of someone did an oil change and forgot to refill it? If it was a dealer then they owe you some parts.

Now I wana see the inside of the rear end. Just morbid curiosity.

[MiCarl]

I'm curious if the oil seal got destroyed during disassembly or if it was like that when it came out.

 

I'd think you'd have to tear up the seal then throw it in a lake for ten years to get it to look like that.

[stereomind]

I couldn't find the o-ring. The driveshaft basically fell out of the final drive.. I'll take some more pics in the next day or two.. the gear lube looked like Coke syrup.. doubt it's been touched in a long time...

 

 

Vlad

[MiCarl]

There isn't an o-ring. There was a boot between the drive shaft and the coupler in the final drive. The band around the shaft against the splines and that ring rattling around were molded into it.

[stereomind]

Ah well.. this is all that's left of the boot then. Perhaps there's a piece of it still in the receiving end, but it certainly didn't come out with the drive shaft. I'll know more when I get some garage time.

 

 

Vlad

 

There isn't an o-ring. There was a boot between the drive shaft and the coupler in the final drive. The band around the shaft against the splines and that ring rattling around were molded into it.

[videoarizona]

Vlad... Don't know if this would help you. I had a rare broken pinion on my first gen last year. I had excellent help figuring out the issue... With pics. I only bring it up in case there is info in old post that may help.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?91454-Rear-End-Questions&highlight=Drive+shaft

[stereomind]

Some more pics of the carnage...

Looks pretty dry. Don't think it's ever been serviced. There's a bit of grease on the forward end of the driveshaft, and the hub side of the final.. Splines on the hub don't look bad. These, however, are toast. There's no sign of anything rubber in there, either. Wonder what happened to it?

 

Peace

 

Vlad

 

http://imgur.com/HkxA9Vyl.jpg

http://imgur.com/YqnSoF8l.jpg

http://imgur.com/vboxADFl.jpg

[videoarizona]

I'm confused (which isn't hard at this point in life)...

Granted my experience has been with 1st gen rear ends... But my 1st gen v 1.2 driveshaft rear is lubed by final drive oil from pumpkin. Did the 2ndgen rear go back in time like the original 1st gen... Lubed by grease only??? Is this what I'm seeing in Vlad's last set of pics?

[stereomind]

I'm wondering the same thing. This is an '03. I see no signs of spline lubrication from the final.

 

 

Vlad

 

 

I'm confused (which isn't hard at this point in life)...

Granted my experience has been with 1st gen rear ends... But my 1st gen v 1.2 driveshaft rear is lubed by final drive oil from pumpkin. Did the 2ndgen rear go back in time like the original 1st gen... Lubed by grease only??? Is this what I'm seeing in Vlad's last set of pics?

[bongobobny]

Ewwwwww!!!

[MiCarl]

I don't know if I've ever been in there on a 2nd gen but I did look into parts compatibility when I broke the pinion gear on my '89. As I recall they used the same coupler.

 

I think there should be a couple small holes in the back of the coupler to let gear oil splash in there and I don't see them. I wonder if they're plugged with debris.

[videoarizona]

I'm wondering the same thing. This is an '03. I see no signs of spline lubrication from the final.

Vlad

 

I think Carl is onto something. I just read my old post referenced above and noticed the info does agree that your pinion should be lubricated by final drive oil. So I bet the holes are plugged in your pinion area or someone swapped out the wrong drive shaft assembly and didn't grease it..... Wonder if a Mk 1 drive shaft and pinion would even fit on a 2nd gen?