No RPM....AGAIN!!!!

[Daddy0]

Hi again,

 

I have a 1987 Venture Royale with approx 134000 kms on it. several weeks ago I posted that I lost RPM on my bike. I ran a can of seafoam through it. Seemed to be working good...until yesterday. I had approx 1/4 tank of fuel in it. Filled up with supreme. Only run supreme through it. Made it about 5 min out of town and it started again. Bike started to chug, RPM started to fluctuate and eventually dropped to zero. It was speratic at first. Then it was full on the entire time until I limped back home. Happened in every gear. If I put her in neutral or pressed in the clutch the rpm would return to normal. If I gave it throttle while in reverse or clutch in the rpm went to zero and no power. I was able to limp home at around 60 -80 km an hour with little to no acceleration. I bought the bike in April. Was serviced regularly at local dealer which I will be calling today to see if there was any history on her. Replaced battery recently. Thats when this RPM trouble started. Not linking one to the other. Just providing some history. I am at a loss here. I googled my issue and cant find anything on any make of bike with these symptoms. Just so everyone is aware I have little mechanical knowledge of bikes. I dont mind taking it to a dealer. Just trying to get a handle on whether I bought a lemon or wasnt told the truth at time of purchase. Any info someone can provide is appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Tom

[slowrollwv]

Tom it sounds like you may have a fuel pump problem.

[Prairiehammer]

I agree that fuel delivery seems to be the issue, although I doubt it is the fuel pump. Of course it could be a bad pump, but First Gen fuel pumps rarely fail.

Several things could inhibit fuel delivery:

Crimped or partially plugged fuel supply lines.

Plugged fuel filter.

Faulty fuel pump.

Unvented fuel tank.

This last issue may be caused by a stuck closed "roll over valve". The roll over valve is a check valve in line with the fuel tank vent. Its purpose is to prevent fuel spillage out the tank vent in the event of a tip over. The check valve has been known to fail in the closed position. If closed, the tank will not vent. If the tank is not vented to atmosphere, a vacuum will form within the tank as the fuel is consumed. Fuel will not then flow unimpeded to the fuel pump or carburetors. If the problem is an unvented tank, a quick way to test for this condition is to remove the fuel filler cap. If a swoosh sound is exhibited (as if air was quickly filling the fuel tank), then the failure of the tank vent is indicated.

[Daddy0]

Is there any chance it could be the TDI box?

[Yammer Dan]

TCI Pull battery and box and clean connections. If you are lucky this will help. Pulling TCI and moving it to top of battery is a option to keep it out of the spot it is in where it gets a good bath in wet weather. There should be a thread here om opening it and baking dry. TCI's are getting hard to come by. Watch E-Bay for one that will work. I can't remember what years work on what . Got it wrote down somewhere. Somewhere. Cain't find right now. But read up on TCI. Tach dropping out is one of the 1st signs of TCI woes on a 1st Gen. Buying one from Dingy is the best cure. He was doing a package that included everything needed but not sure he is now.

[bongobobny]

For an '87, use anything from '84 to '89...

[Yammer Dan]

Thanks Bongo. Cain't never remember that.

[Prairiehammer]

Is there any chance it could be the TDI box?

 

Yes, it could be, but personally, I would suspect fuel delivery.

When you say the rpms drop to "zero", do you mean the tach quits reading any rpm or do you mean the engine actually stops rotating? If the tach drops to zero and the engine is still running, then yes, that is a tell tale of #2 cylinder (from which the TCI gets its signal) has stopped getting an ignition signal from/to the TCI.

[utadventure]

Fuel filter and fuel line are cheap. Sometimes the old fuel line will separate and collapse inside.

[Daddy0]

Hi,

info is so helpful

Yes the tach drops. The engine keeps running but has little to know throttle. Can you tell me where the tci is located? And what I need to do to get to it. If anyone has a pic of what it looks like it would really help. And to clarify...I can use one from 84 and up correct?

 

Any I

[Yammer Dan]

84 to 89 will work for yours. You must remove battery and battery box to access it. Then you can see its two connectors. Should be some pics here somewhere. Search for TCI. Removing it and moving it out of the spot it is in can protect it from a lot of water. If you remove and clean connections it could fix your problem. If you are lucky!! Another fix is baking it in the oven to dry it out at low temps for couple hours. And you can also open it very carefully to check condition of circuit boards inside. ( Not for the faint of heart.) There should be a lot of info here on getting it moved to a better location and getting it dried out. I'm sure someone will post that does pics. I don't even keep a camera.

[Daddy0]

Thanks Yammer Dan. I have a lead on two of these units. Following up today. However, when I limp the bike home today I will take it apart and do what you mentioned. Will see how it goes. Really appreciate the help folks.

[Daddy0]

What do you recommend to clean the connections with. Electrical contact cleaner? I know it comes in an aerosol can.

[bongobobny]

Yup! Also a toothbrush is very useful to scrub any corrosion off...

[Daddy0]

So...

 

I picked the old girl from the garage I had it at. As expected, it ran horribly for approx 5 min. Then all of a sudden went back to normal and ran like a top for the next 25 min until I parked her. I am not sure if thats normal when the TCI box is faulty or not. Maybe I am over thinking this too much.

 

Signed...Frustrated. lol

[Daddy0]

Great. Thanks

[bongobobny]

Uhhh, no. I don't think you are overthinking it. There may be trapped moisture in TCI unit, or corrosion on the connectors, or corrosion on the other set of connectors halfway between the TCI and the coil pack, but then again there could be other issues...

 

Now, just to confirm the likelihood of it being from the TCI, when it is running crappy is the Tach completely dead, reading zero, but when it is running right it reads correctly?? If so then it is definitely TCI related as the tach is driven by the number 2 coil command from the TCI. If the tach is reading sort of normal when it is running bad, the issue may or may not be the TCI or connectors...

[Yammer Dan]

Run Great one day like crap the next. Ya hear that Skid?? That's why my buddy always left the "Blue Beast" in the dust. And how I learned abut them. Anyway does moisture seems to make a difference?? You probally do need to replace that one or at least pull and dry. Lot of info on here about that. Pulling it is a bear. Getting to those screws can be fun. Make sure you have a screwdriver tip that fits right. Not a fun part of these things. Call me if you got questions.

[Daddy0]

Thanks Bongo,

 

Yes the Tach goes to zero. It will go back to normal when running right, engaging clutch or neutral. However, if I engage the throttle the tach drops again.

[Flyinfool]

If the tach ever drops to zero while the engine is running, even while the engine is running very badly, it does indicate an electrical problem. A fuel problem will never make the tach drop to zero with the engine still running.

 

There are a lot of things that can have an effect on the TCI. As mentioned a god place to start is the TCI connectors. Clean the contacts, dry it out and give each wire in the connectors a gentle tug to check for a good crimp. If that does not fix it we can move on to other areas to check. It takes a while to go thru everything, but we will help you find it.

 

I HATE intermittent issues, if it does not act up for the dealer at his shop, all he can do is to throw YOUR money at the problem until he happens to hit the bad part. I hate throwing money at a problem..............

[Daddy0]

I certainly dont want to be throwing money away. I am picking up a TCI on saturday anyway as the price I thought was reasonable at $250 cdn. However I will be trying the connector issue. If it was easy to get at, I would do it in the evening. However, I understand it is not so. I also understand it is located under the battery box.

 

Tom

[Daddy0]

Any suggestions on the easiest way to remove the TCI so I can dry it out and relocate it?

[KSRIDER10]

Try a jumper wire across your side-stand switch. You saying that it revs fine with the clutch pulled in, makes me suspect the switch is intermittant.

[bongobobny]

Unfortunately no real easy way to get to the TCI,ANOTHER great reason to relocate it to the top of the airbox! There is enough free play in the wiring harness to get the TCI up there, but you will find you will most likely have to cut one of the mounting ears off to get the fake tank cover back on.

 

You need to remove both upper fairings, and it is a good idea to remove the lowers as well to prevent accidentally breaking one or both. The battery and battery box have to come out. It helps, although not absolutely necessary, to remove the air box. Have fun with the breather hose, a set of VERY long needlenose pliers helps with this. Next, the coil pack comes out. Actually, you may not have to take the coil packs out if you can get to the two electrical connectors for the TCI at this point. You could just plug in your "new" TCI and hopefully you paid good money for a good one and not another troublesome one. Sometimes TCI's will start the bike ok but at higher RPM's develop a stumble or start to break up. Anyway, if the new one is good, then your problem is solved, put the TCI on the airbox top and reassemble the bike!! BTW, if at all possible do not try to run the bike with the airbox disconnected, they run like crap without it!! Your existing problem sure sounds as if it is moisture related...

 

As far as what KSrider is talking about, when the sidestand switch goes south, the usual symptom is the engine dies totally as soon as you put the bike in gear and let the clutch out. What you want to do to check is like he suggested, jumper all three wires to the switch together but this comes with this VERY IMPORTANT WARNING!!!!! When you jumper the wires, your bike is now capable of starting IN GEAR with the CLUTCH OUT!! Also you are now capable of driving WITH THE KICKSTAND DOWN, a very dangerous thing to do!! Soo, just do the jumpering thing only to find out if the switch is the problem source!!

[Yammer Dan]

I have removed them with just removing side faring covers, battery and battery box, A flex shaft screwdriver good tip and good luck. Knowing what you are looking at helps. Should be a pic of one somewhere. Cutting the ears off. Some need to some don't. Try fitting it in there to see what ya got.