89 has an oil leak

[frankd]

A couple of weeks ago, I started to notice that my 89 had started to mark it's territory with engine oil on the garage floor, and it looked like it was under the middle gear cover (the usual spot). Yesterday Barb and I went for a ride, and when we got home, I put it on the center stand with newspaper under it. I pulled the left side cover off and ran it for a few minutes, and it left a spot on the paper, but I really couldn't see any fresh oil anywhere. I pulled the rubber cover over the clutch slave cylinder and looked down, the stator and the ignition pickup coil wires looked dry. I looked up from the bottom, and couldn't see anything wet. I pulled the left rider's foot peg and looked inside the universal joint rubber cover, and everything looked dry inside ( I replaced the seal here a couple of years ago when I had to replace the universal joint).

 

This morning I took the next step. I've got a middle gear cover that has all the 'uneeded' material removed so only the middle gear bearing is covered. I located it and installed it. I also checked the clutch slave cylinder (dry), the screws that hold the neutral light/gear indicator switch to the case (snug) the shift shaft (dry) and the stator and ignition pickup coil wiring (dry). I started the bike and ran it until it warmed up. I know that the engine oil wasn't hot yet, but it should have been warm enough to leak. I held the RPMs up for a bit, and also put it in gear and turned over the rear wheel. NOTHING. I looked at the gasket that was on the middle gear cover. It split when I pulled the original cover, but I could see no evidence of fresh oil. Yesterday I did see some fresh oil in the frame under the middle gear, but couldn't tell where it came from. Also I looked over the rear valve cover for leaks. I've got some seepage, but no fresh oil.

 

What am I missing? I suppose I could put the shifter/foot peg back on and take it for a ride.

 

On the 2nd picture, you can see the marks on the exhaust pipe that show evidence of the dripping oil.

[MiCarl]

You've got some cleaning to do before you have a hope of tracing it. Get all that oily grime off the top of the engine and in the area of the clutch slave. Looks like the cylinders might be coated too.

 

It could be leaking at the stator cover (wires won't necessarily look wet). It's also possible (likely even) that the rear valve cover is leaking and running down the heads and cylinder then finding its way around to the bottom of the engine.

[Flyinfool]

Silly question time.

Do you have a GOOD soft copper crush washer on the bottom middle gear cover bolt?

 

My first step in tracking an oil leak is always to start with a good cleaning. I use Gunk Engine Degreaser, Original, unless it is really bad then I use the Heavy Duty or the Gel. Use a chip brush or old paint brush to work the degreaser in good and loosen the thicker dirt.

[frankd]

I'm pretty sure that my copper washer is fine. I hadn't disturbed the bottom bolt for several years and I had no leaks from there. I've got the same washer on the down sized middle gear cover now and it's not leaking. Besides the leak is towards the center of the bike a couple of inches from the bottom bolt and also a little foward, or just in front of where the center stand hits the ground when it's used. Actually the leaked oil hit the ground just in front of the center stand left foot.

 

But I agree, it's pretty crudded up, so I gave the area a de-greasing. Then I put on the front left foot peg and shifter and took it for a 10 mile trip mostly at 65mph. I got home and put it in the shop of the center stand, and when I looked things over, everything was dry and I had no drips on the floor. For a little bit I thought I had the ignition pickup coil leads leaking, but I cleaned that area a little better and ran it for a while at 3500 rpm.......it was only trapped old oil, not fresh. The rear valve cover isn't dripping down the cylinders. The only thing I can think of to do is to leave the cut middle gear cover on the bike and just ride it for a bit. The bike will be down for a few days this week because I'm getting the seat recovered by a local guy.

 

If I really don't still have a leak, it sure points to the middle gear cover gasket. I've got the temporary cover on with an used old gasket, and things look dry after my ride. If anybody has any ideas, I'd like to hear them.

 

Frank

[frankd]

Saturday Barb and I went for a 50 mile ride and when we got home I had a couple of drips on the paper under the bike, and also fresh oil on the frame rail, but everything under the middle gear cover appears dry. So I took another look into the shaft drive boot, and on the very bottom it appears to be wet with fresh oil. I also see a small puddle of fresh oil sitting on a frame support underneath the boot. I intended to install a new rear tire while my upholstery was being renewed, so I'll also pull the swing arm and get a better look at the shaft that supports the universal joint. It looks like there is a good chance that I'll find that the seal is leaking. I had to replace my u-joint 3 years and 22,000 miles ago, and I replaced the seal then. I thought it would last longer than this so if it is the seal, I'll have to inspect everything carefully.

[KIC]

Not to hijack the thread but I have been battling oil leaks too and just changed the oil. For the first time I used the diesel Rotella. I now have more of a burned oil smell. Is that normal ? Does the diesel leak more for some reason? Does it just smell more than regular Rotella ?

[frankd]

My oil leak is coming from the middle gear unit, right from the output shaft. This seal is only 3 years and 20,000 miles old. My universal joint fell apart 3 years ago, and when I replaced it I also replaced both yokes and the seal. I've got the new seal and O ring ordered, so when they come, I'll take the output shaft unit off the bike and tear it down. I'll inspect the yoke for any defects that'd effect the seal. Yesterday I got my new rear Avon mounted on the wheel and to keep me busy until the parts come in I'll check the rear cyclinder's valves clearance (I recently check the front cyclinders' valve clearance) and also replace the brake fluid in the clutch and brakes.

 

Bill,

 

Rotella shouldn't leak any faster than gas engine oil, in fact it should leak slightly less because it hold's it's viscosity better. The smell should be about the same also. If you have a burnt oil smell, it's probably hitting the exhaust system somewhere, either from the valve covers, or from somewhere under the middle gear cover which could leak onto the exhaust chamber.

 

Frank

[frankd]

I received an email from the place I ordered the parts from that said that the seal was on back order and had an ETA or 6/3. Sounds like there are none here and it has to come from Japan.

[BlueSky]

I'd check more places on line, partzilla, bike bandit, etc.

[Trader]

Might be a stupid idea...but have you guys checked that the vent tubes are not your issue?

I'm thinking that if you over filled the oil...or if you have blow by or something like that that the vent tubes could be leaking oil....and if not routed correctly perhaps ending up on top of the collector?????

 

Just an uneducated flyer

[frankd]

Steve, I don't have too much oil in it, and the crankcase vent is not plugged.

 

Friday I pulled the rear valve cover and checked the valves and when the mail man came by the house Friday afternoon, he had a package that have the valve cover gasket in it (also the O ring for the middle gear output assy.) so Saturday I installed the valve cover. Today I flushed and changed the brake fluid for the clutch and both brakes. When the mail came today, there was an envelope that had the seal that I've been waiting for in it. Tomorrow, I'll pull the output assy. and install the new seal. My seats should be ready in a day or two, so I should be riding soon. I'm also thinking that because I've got all the Tupperware off the sides that it'd be a good time to check the carb. synchronization, especially if I'm waiting on the seat. I haven't checked that for several years and it feels like it needs a touch up.

[frankd]

My seal arrived last Wednesday. I guess they found one over here and I didn't have to wait quite as long.....no complaints. I pulled the middle gear and replaced the seal. After that was together, I flushed the brake and clutch fluid and on Friday afternoon the guy doing my seats and arm rests finished them. The new covering looks good and the lady that re=did the foam in the seat knew what she was doing. Both my seat and Barb's are very comfortable. Between Saturday and Monday we've put about 270 miles on it, and everything looks dry......no oil leak. I didn't install the new Avon on the front. The old one probably has a good 4,000 miles left on it so I can wait a little while.

 

 

I hope that this new seal lasts longer than 3 years and 20,000 miles. I wish I could have found a reason for the quicker than expected failure, but everything looked great. The yoke that goes into the seal was replaced when I did the u-joint 3 years ago. In cas it had a sharp spot thatI couldn't feel I polished the surface with 600 grit paper.

Edited May 25, 2016 by frankd
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