Howdy! Shift shaft bearing and seal question

[stereomind]

Hey folks. I'm helping a friend out with his high mileage '03 Venture and its several oil leaks. The bike has over 120K on the odometer.

 

The rear valve cover gasket was toast, which wasn't too big of a deal to replace. But now I noticed that the shift shaft seal is leaking pretty bad, and the bearing (or is it a bushing?) for the shift shaft is also wore out, and the shift shaft has quite a bit of sideways play.

 

It looks like the seal is easy enough to replace.. But what about the bearing? Can it be done with the engine still in the frame?

 

Thanks!

 

Vlad

[cowpuc]

Hi Vlad, I am pretty much sure that the shift shaft is supported by a reamed hole in the stator cover (speaking from experience with a 1st Gen here - never worked on a 2nd Gen) and I dont believe there is a replaceable bushing or bearing that supports it.. Help me help you and answer this for me - if you are looking at the oil seal that needs replacing, did you have to remove the stator cover to get at it? If you did, take a peek at the passage thru the stator cover and see if you notice a bushing? Probably not.. If my hunch is correct, it will be necessary to replace the cover (big bucks) to stablize the shaft OR (and I have done this successfully) you could drill out that shaft passage, jump on a lathe and make a replacement bushing for that location OR (and I have done this successfully too) you can pick up some instant bushing making stuff (thinking the stuff I used was made by Loctite) - pick up a shoulder bolt with the same diameter as the O.D. of the shift shaft, clean the cover really well with brake cleaner and a small piece of emery cloth - wrap the bolt with wax paper - slide the wax paper covered bolt thru the shift shaft hole in the cover from the internal side so the bolt is sticking outside of the cover and the head is inside - put a smear of grease on the head of the bolt - enough to keep the Loctite bushing maker from leaking thru, lay the cover down and the bolt head and squirt the loctite in from the outer area, let it dry and pull the bolt out. That loctite is GOOD stuff - its actually not uncommon to use the stuff on actual spinning shafts in industry.

With a little effort you should be able to pull the seal without removing the shift shaft (kind of a pain cause you gotta pull it from the clutch side). Drill a couple small holes in the seal and screw in a couple self tapping screws to pull on, slide it off the shaft and slide a new one on.

All that said,,, let's let this answer set for while and see if one of these guru's comes along and corrects what I am thinking here... VERY POSSIBLE that what I am thinking is off base a little - not uncommon if that happens

[cowpuc]

By the way,, on helping your buddy with his scoot - makes playing with this stuff a whole lot more fun when done with a good buddy!!

[stereomind]

On this bike, the shift shaft sticks out quite a bit from the transmission case itself. It does not go through a sidecover at all, although I did have to pull the middle gear cover just to be able to access it. It seems like an odd design choice, but it is what it is..

 

LOL edit: see my post below. I'm a dummy.

 

 

This definitely cannot be machined in place.. But if there's no replaceable bushing behind that seal, I might still be able to use a sleeve of some sort.

Hopefully someone else will chime in with a (hopefully) simple solution

 

Vlad

Edited May 1, 2016 by stereomind

[stereomind]

Ok, I'm an idjut! The end of the shaft rests in the hole in the middle gear cover.. So the play in the shaft without that cover is probably normal. I guess I just need to replace that seal and go on.. Anyone got the size for that puppy?

 

Thanks!

 

Vlad

[crowrod]

part # Oil Seal

93102-14209-00

[stereomind]

Well, dang. I replaced the seal, but no dice. Still leaks like a sieve in the same spot, even without the engine running. There's a tiny bit of play in the shift shaft even with the outer end riding inside the middle gear cover, like it's supposed to be.. However, it leaks even when not applying any sideways force to the shift shaft.

 

I ordered the correct seal from PartZilla.. I did notice that there's a slight witness ring on the shift shaft right where the seal lip would ride. Is it possible that the shaft itself is worn to the point where the seal will not work?

 

Any suggestions welcome..... Keep in mind this bike has 120K+ miles on it..

 

 

Vlad

[crowrod]

Did you inspect the seal for any deformation before install? did you clean the shaft of any dirt or grit? does the seal have a spring load, the reason I ask is I dont think a seal would wear a shaft to the point of leakage .maybe you could try the same type seal with a springload any good bearing and seal distributer should be able to fix you up

[stereomind]

The seal looked fine, and I did clean the shaft before putting the new seal on. I don't believe it's a spring-loaded seal though.. Just a single rubber lip.

Do you happen to have the dimensions of the seal? All I have is a part number..

[crowrod]

Sorry no I dont, pull the new one, if not messed up to bad any bearing & seal distributor should be able to match it.

[stereomind]

Well, I decided to go with a undersize seal. Stock calls for 26mm OD, 6mm width and 14mm ID.

I went with a 26x7x13 (7mm width and 13mm ID) so it would snug up against the shift shaft a little better. So far, it looks promising. No leaks while sitting with engine off and full of oil (the stock replacement seal leaked right away).. I'll take the bike for a spin some time over the next couple of days, once the rain clears... Fingers crossed.. I'd like to get on with the project and fix the clunky U-joint, and get this bike out of my garage

 

 

peace

 

Vlad

[Cowboy]

Where did you get the seal? I replaced mine with the same stock seal and had the same result. LEAK LEAK

Would like to try the smaller seal you came up with!

Again where did you get the smaller seal? 26x7x13

[stereomind]

I picked the seal up at our local bearing house in Tulsa, OK. It appears to be available online from a few vendors -- SKF part# 563793.

Just went out in the garage and took a peek.. Not a drop under the bike or around the seal, so it's definitely an improvement, as with the other seal it would weep even without the engine running.

 

Will post an update once I put a few miles on it.

 

 

peace

 

Vlad

 

 

Where did you get the seal? I replaced mine with the same stock seal and had the same result. LEAK LEAK

Would like to try the smaller seal you came up with!

Again where did you get the smaller seal? 26x7x13

[stereomind]

Just a quick update.. The leak is... Gone! Took it for a spin, came back.. Seal is bone-dry on the outside.

 

So if anyone else has trouble sealing up the shift shaft, Try a 13mm ID double-lip spring seal. Mine was 7mm wide but I don't think that's crucial, that's just what the bearing house had in the catalog.

 

 

peace

 

Vlad

[Cowboy]

Vlad,

Been looking around for this Grease Seal. Cannot find anyone that can get it! Wondering if the company you got it from would send me one by the US Postal Service? Do you have a contact number and name?

Any info on this would be appreciated.

My grease seal is leaking and I am tired of looking like a Harley in the garage.

Wondering how many other people are having the same issue!! Just rolled over 120,000 and all is fine minus the oil spot on the garage floor.

 

Thanks again

Brian

[stereomind]

Hey Brian,

 

The company is Purvis Industries.. They're based out of Texas but have a store here in Tulsa. Their number is 918-622-3344. They had to order the seal for me, as they didn't have it in stock.

 

The seal is an SKF brand, part # 563793. I found a place online that appears to carry it:

https://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=03238217

 

(ninja edit: I spoke with the front desk guys briefly about the seal's application while I was waiting on the receipt.. They'll probably know what you're talking about right away )

 

peace,

 

Vlad

 

 

Vlad,

Been looking around for this Grease Seal. Cannot find anyone that can get it! Wondering if the company you got it from would send me one by the US Postal Service? Do you have a contact number and name?

Any info on this would be appreciated.

My grease seal is leaking and I am tired of looking like a Harley in the garage.

Wondering how many other people are having the same issue!! Just rolled over 120,000 and all is fine minus the oil spot on the garage floor.

 

Thanks again

Brian

[Cowboy]

Vlad,

Thanks I got part ordered today, should have by Thursday.

Motion Industries got me in touch with there distributor in Dalton, GA.

Thanks for the info.

Brian

[Ay_Dee]

is this it http://www.actionautoparts.com/store/skf-563793-grs-seal-providence-ri

 

my 'new' bike looks to have the same leak.

 

OK, never mind, just saw page 2 with the Tulsa link - I'm in Wichita.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Ay_Dee

[ragtop69gs]

with the gear cover off even a new seal will leak. Put the cover back on and the leak will stop if you installed the new seal. If I remember correctly there is no bushing in the cover, a little moly grease is all it should need. Check http://www.ronayers.com that's where I get most of my parts including the shift shaft seal last year.

[alysk1]

Hi first time post. Just replaced seal with OEM . So far 24 hrs no static or dynamic leaks. But will look into new smaller seal. Was a PITA ,but not brutal.