The Saga - how to trike your Fathers Venture! (Long Story - to be continued)

[VanRiver]

As many know from my past posts, I picked up a pair of 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale’s back in October of 2014 to have an excuse to spend time with my Father turning wrenches and restoring these wonder pieces of Yamaha engineering with the intention of getting him back in the saddle again after a long hiatus of him riding. My father has ridden motorcycles all his life and was the reason I too have the bike bug. He taught me everything I know. My Dad and I had a great time restoring our matching Venture’s and spent some really memorable times on the road during the summer of 2015.

 

 

As you can see, he started me young (picture of me in my knitted "helmet" circa early 1970's on one of his bikes)

 

 

But I need to clarify one thing….My Dad is 75 years old this year and getting him back in the saddle of a large and heavy bike like the MKII Venture Royale caused a bit of stress for him. He was once a big burly police officer that road Police Harley’s on the street, in high speed pursuits, rode dirt bikes on the many trails we have here in the mountains of Alberta Canada…..but unfortunately he is not the big, strong man, with razor reflexes like he once was. Although he is in great shape and could probably still kick my butt, age catches up with all of us unfortunately. The point of riding is to have a pleasurable, relaxing, and fun time. But if you are constantly worrying about dropping your bike or avoiding roads with traffic lights that make you stop and balance your bike then that is not a good thing, and that is where my father is unfortunately coming to this 2016 riding season.

 

So I saw this as a challenge and quest to find a way to keep my Dad riding with me, but to hopefully take the stress out of it for him. So I set out to trike his bike. Being that we only paid $500 each for our lovely Venture’s I could not justifying spending thousands of dollars on the many trike kits and conversions out there. Nor did my Dad want to shell out the money for a already triked machine since he doesn’t know how many years of riding he has left. So I thought about alternatives, did a lot of research, checked Craig’s List every day, and even bought some DYI trike plans off the internet to see if I could build my own.

 

Well, one lovely day in June 2015 I was sitting in my office in Calgary Alberta Canada and was checking Craig’s list for Phoenix Arizona and found an ad for “Motorcycle trailer Insta-trike”. I reached out the the very nice fellow in Casa Grande Arizona who said that he had bought a property and in one of the sheds there was some assorted metal and a trailer for a motorcycle which had a sticker on it calling it an “Insta-trike” and he would sell it to me and the scrap for $100. Well from my research I know this was not trailer at all, but a trike kit for a motorcycle….Eureka I found a solution for my Dad and for only $100!!!!! Yippie.

 

Now the problem, the Insta-Trike was located in Arizona but my Dad's Bike is located 2550km away. Plus the trike had been modified to fit a mystery bike that was definitely not a 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale.

 

Being that I sometimes overestimate my mechanical, fabrication, and transportation abilities, I purchased the Insta-trike and scrap metal over the phone and told him I would pick it up the next time I was in Arizona. We were schedule to head down to our house in Phoenix for a Summer vacation in July so the seller was kind enough to store the “scrap metal” for me for an additional month.

 

Well July rolled around and this is what greeted me when I picked it up.

 

 

Well I then proceeded to spend many hours cleaning it, repainting, and upgrading the bald tires and larger rims so my Dad wouldn’t think I was putting a set of used “training wheels” on his nicely restored Venture. Got that all done and was very proud of myself and the project……but then it dawned on me “how the heck do I get this home to Canada” as it weighs a ton! Plus “How the heck do I connect this trike to my Dad’s bike since it clearly was meant for a different bike and was missing brackets!”

 

 

I proceed to tackle the “How do I connect it to my Dad’s Bike” first. I contacted Tow-Pac the makers of the “insta-trike kit” asking if I could purchase parts and possibly a bracket kit for the Yamaha Venture. They instantly refused me saying they only sell the brackets for a specific bike with a full trike kit. I then asked if I could purchase a few replacement parts…they asked me to send them a picture of my insta-trike for reference before they would sell me parts. Once I sent them pictures of my “$100” find then proceed to send me a refusal email saying that my trike appeared to have been modified and they would NOT sell me anything related to parts or accessories. Plus they were rather rude in the process like I had violated a cardinal rule of purchasing a “used” and “Butchered” product of theirs. That total Pissed me off! I have never been refused by a vendor to sell me parts for their product! Well, that was the last I will ever try to work with Tow-Pac ever again. So it is up to me to fabricate brackets….I can do that….right? I own lots of big scary tools that can cut, grind, weld, and drill metal…it is only my Father’s safety going down the road at 110km per hour….how hard could it be?

 

Next challenge….”how the heck do it transport this 200lb metal contraption to Canada from Arizona?” I checked into all kinds of transport options and they were all Very Expensive!!!! My Shipping options ranged from $1200 to $600 to get it across the border and moved 2550km away. Kind of defeats the purpose of going cheap if shipping it would cost that much. Plus I didn’t feel like driving, nor do I have the time to drive 48 hour and travel 5000km round trip in my truck to pick it up personally. So I decided to see if I could take it on the airplane with me! How do you eat an elephant….well one bite at a time…so I decide to use the same approach with getting this thing home on the airplane. I stripped the trike down to it’s smallest parts possible and took a part or two in my suite case or box every time I went down to Arizona. Both my wife and the airlines thought I was crazy, but if I kept the size and weight down to their maximum levels then each item would only cost me $20 to take on the plane…..AND if I could fit it in my carry on bag it was free! I like FREE!!!

 

 

Have you ever went through Airport security with a full torsion axel and hub in your carry on bag? Well I have, and had to do some sweet talking with a supervisor at the Security check point to prove it was not hazardous, or could be used as a weapon on board the airplane. Luckily Airport security supervisor was a motorcycle guy too and let me pass after some very detailed questions about my Yamaha Venture’s and my personal intentions with the part on board. Plus I made him chuckle with my story of how I was transporting my Dad’s trike kit one piece at a time. Unfortunately, my wife did not find it humors waiting for me to clear security and thinking I was getting strip searched in the interrogation room!

 

After 4 trips to Arizona and $100 in extra baggage fees I finally got the elephant eaten and the kit made it home to my shop in Canada! Yippie!!!!

 

Now time to fabricate the Brackets to attach it to my Dad’s Bike.

 

To be Continued!

[VanRiver]

After a lot of staring, planning, measuring, and thinking.....Brackets are all done…..not too bad for a hack like me….If I do say so myself.

 

Time to install.....rather time to go to bed!

 

[VanRiver]

Brackets installed..... doesn't look too bad!

 

 

Well, as all other Insta-Trike owners know…..they don’t have springs or shocks from the factory…..this was a hack job addition the previous owner did, most likely due to the original torsion axels wearing out.

 

Once I got her all hooked up to the Venture, that heavey old bike flattened those puny shocks right to the ground. This thing must have been on a much lighter weight scoot!

 

 

A quick run to my spare motorcycle parts bin and found a set of beefier shocks from a Kawasaki 750 and they did the trick. Perfect size and heavier springs….appears to be working like a charm!

 

Sorry, forgot to take pictures of the new shocks installed.....I'll update the post tomorrow.....if people are interested of course.

[bongobobny]

You bet your bippy we are interested!!

 

Great story!

[Yammer Dan]

Tow-Pac on the list of not to deal with now!! Waiting for next chapter!!

[Trader]

Your old man drugged you up rightly!

He must be very proud to have a son like you!

[cowpuc]

What an absolutely AMAZING story Riv - FANTASTIC brother!!:clap2::clap2::dancefool::dancefool: That pic of you on your Dads Honda SL125 (maybe a 100?) Motosport is PRICELESS my friend, just PRICELESS!! What a Dad you have and what a very very special bond the two of you have developed - wayyyyyy cool!!

Your story of Triking your Dads Venture now has me on the edge of my seat and I cannot WAIT till your next installment - WHAT IN THE WILD WORLD OF ICONIC FATHER AND SON BONDING WHILE MAKING MOTORCYCLING HISTORY IS THIS "IF WE ARE INTERESTED" NONSENSE :doh::doh:

 

You best get typing and uploading pictures brother or this Venturerider.org Motorcycle Club may just become 3 part patch color wearing 1 percenters and you dont want no part of that!!! :stirthepot::stirthepot:

 

AMAZING STORY RIV - THANK YOU FOR SHARING!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[videoarizona]

Love it! Awaiting the next installment, James! And thanks for sharing...

[Venture n Dixie]

- WHAT IN THE WILD WORLD OF ICONIC FATHER AND SON BONDING WHILE MAKING MOTORCYCLING HISTORY IS THIS "IF WE ARE INTERESTED?

Calm down Puc! In the TV business this is called "The Tease" Keeps you from changing the channel.

[VanRiver]

Thanks everyone for your kind words and interest in my "Project"!!! My Dad says "Hello" to you all as well!

 

More pictures and progress coming.....My darn job sure cramps my style and takes away from the time that I could be working on the bike!

 

Wish I was retired like my buddy @videoarizona and so many other well deserving retired guys and gals on this forum. Hope to be like you guys some day!

 

(I'm writing this longingly looking out the window of the 16th floor of an office building at another beautiful day here in Calgary... but I'm trapped in the office on a conference call with no opportunity of feeling the wind blow through my beautiful golden locks and to feel the sun on my face while hearing that MKII water cooled 4 cylinder purr down the road.....or in the case of AZZI my bike in Arizona 3 cylinders and a pop and a fart now and then)

 

to be continued....

[VanRiver]

Well I finally got some time to put things back together as my Dad's bike "Ol Brownie" was feeling rather naked without her rear bags and assorted rear plastic pieces. The Saga Continues!

 

Things I got done:

 

1. Finished the install of the stronger shocks that can handle the weight of this lovely bike (thank you to that donor Kawasaki 750 wherever you are)!

2. Fabricated and welded some brackets on that I can bolt fenders to.

3. Installed the plastic fenders that I got off of Ebay and installed them on the new brackets.

4. Painted anything that was exposed and could rust!

5. Dressed her up again and bolted all the plastic dressing back on.

 

Things still to do:

 

1. Need to spend more time aligning the wheels so she tracks perfectly straight going down the road. If anyone has some insight or suggestions of ways to measure proper wheel alignment on a contraption like this, I'm all ears! I'm thinking about using laser pointers attached to the wheels to help find perfect centre.....but I might be over thinking the process if you guys have some better ideas.

 

2. Need to install some additional LED lights on the fenders so my Dad is lit up like a Christmas tree rolling down the road. Thinking I might add Brake and running lights on the back of the Fenders and Amber signals on the front of the fenders so people see him better coming and going.

 

3. The front forks seem to be pretty compressed now that it is always upright in the trike format, I think the old fork springs are tired and worn. I have ordered a set of progressive springs and new seals to do a fork rebuild.

 

4. Get my Dad on the bike for some test rides so he gets used to the VERY DIFFERENT FEEL of riding a trike compared to being on 2 wheels. I'm just amazed how different this bike handles in this new trike format....I've never ridden a trike before, and it is a big learning curve to teach your brain that you don't put your feet down and you can't lean the in corners.

 

5. I'm not really happy with the fenders I bought for it, might try to find a nicer set....plus they will be painted brown to match the bike eventually.

 

6. Install the nice chrome lug nuts and centre wheel caps which I bought and put away for "safe keep in my garage"....which now I can not find!!! Yes, I lost the centre caps and lug nuts in my messy unorganized shop. I've looked everywhere....I think.....I'm getting old and forgetful!

 

Almost done....can't wait to get my Dad on it once I've worked out all the bugs!!! Here is the latest batch of pictures of the project.

 

[VanRiver]

No test rides this weekend.....supposed to rain.

[cowpuc]

Sorry about the rain Riv but I gotta say - WOW ZZZZZ WOW WOW WOW DID THAT COME OUT BEAUTIFUL - NICE JOB THERE MY FRIEND!!!!!!:dancefool::dancefool::clap2:

HERE'S HOPING YOU AND YOUR FATHER HAVE MANY YEARS OF SHARING THE PRECIOUSNESS OF TIME TOGETHER!! WAYYYY COOL!!!!!

[Flyinfool]

Just a thought from an engineering perspective.

 

Just going by the fact that the original design was a solid suspension with no springs.

With the heavier springs that you installed they are now able to hold the bike upright sitting still, but are they strong enough to keep the bike upright in a hard turn at speed? The bike suddenly leaning the wrong way in a turn would be extremely dangerous.

 

Try some static tests, Get on the bike and hang your body weight as far off to each side as you can, does it still stay straight up? If not you will have issues on the road. Even if it does. work up to the fast turns very slowly, if the bike starts to lean the wrong way it will be trying to throw you off and the shift in Center Of Gravity to the outside of the turn, coupled with the centripetal force, could allow the bike to easily flip.

 

Yes wear lots of safety gear while testing.

 

I sure hope it all works out just great.

[VanRiver]

Thanks Jeff for the engineering perspective! One point of clarification is that the instal-trike has "torsion axels" in it's original design from the factory (rubber in the axel to allow it to twist and provide vertical movement and suspension), therefore it is not solid suspension. But to your point, I'm not sure what the compression weight rating was on those original torsion axels (Insta-trike would not share that top secret information with me) compared to the springs that are now installed. The key would be to match the ratings up exactly to avoid the lean deviation that you are referring too. Safety is the key and I appreciate you reinforcing that! I plan on testing the heck out of this before I get my Dad on the scoot!!!

 

I have already put around 100km on the bike testing with as many curves, twists, potholes, and speed bumps as possible, and so far it has been performing well and feels very stable and consistent. The unfortunate part is that I have nothing to compare it too as I have no experience with trikes or opportunities to test a different trike setup to contrast with. Oh well, my Dad is old and has had a very full life with no regrets so far....opportunity to get my inheritance early I guess! Just Kidding of course!!!!!!

 

 

@Flyinfool I do have an engineering question for you though and would love to get your professional opinion.....It is related to wheel alignment. Do you have any suggestions on the best way to measure for proper wheel alignment on the rig? I'm still scratching my head if I need to worry about precise Caster, Camber, and Toe. I believe the Caster is irrelevant for this setup. I believe I should have 0 Camber (not positive or negative) and I can measure that with a simple level on the tire while there is load on the trike. Now the hard one (for me anyways) is Toe....what should my Toe be and how the heck can I precisely measure that on this rig?

 

Any insight would be welcome!

 

Just a thought from an engineering perspective.

 

Just going by the fact that the original design was a solid suspension with no springs.

With the heavier springs that you installed they are now able to hold the bike upright sitting still, but are they strong enough to keep the bike upright in a hard turn at speed? The bike suddenly leaning the wrong way in a turn would be extremely dangerous.

 

Try some static tests, Get on the bike and hang your body weight as far off to each side as you can, does it still stay straight up? If not you will have issues on the road. Even if it does. work up to the fast turns very slowly, if the bike starts to lean the wrong way it will be trying to throw you off and the shift in Center Of Gravity to the outside of the turn, coupled with the centripetal force, could allow the bike to easily flip.

 

Yes wear lots of safety gear while testing.

 

I sure hope it all works out just great.

[Flyinfool]

I do not know for sure on the alignment, I never messed with a setup like that.

I agree that caster does not apply.

Camber I would think should be either 0 or with the tops of the tires tilted slightly to the center, Tops tilted out would be bad. You can measure with a level.

As for Toe, I would think it should be like a trailer axle. Either 0 or slightly toed in, toed out would give handling issues. To measure toe use 2 straight 2x4s clamped to the tires and measure the distance across the front and the back of the 2x4s to see which way the tires are pointed. Also lay out the center of the bike and measure out to each 2x4 to be sure that both tires are pointed straight ahead.

 

As I said there are just my best guess for a good starting point.

[VanRiver]

Thanks @Flyinfool for the confirmation and insight on the alignment! Great simple solution using the 2x4's! I was totally over thinking and trying to come up with a more elaborate solution of home made jigs and laser beams....which was not needed if you got a nice straight piece a wood on each side. Simple is always best.

 

You da man Jeff! Will be interesting to see how off kilter the settings are.

 

I do not know for sure on the alignment, I never messed with a setup like that.

I agree that caster does not apply.

Camber I would think should be either 0 or with the tops of the tires tilted slightly to the center, Tops tilted out would be bad. You can measure with a level.

As for Toe, I would think it should be like a trailer axle. Either 0 or slightly toed in, toed out would give handling issues. To measure toe use 2 straight 2x4s clamped to the tires and measure the distance across the front and the back of the 2x4s to see which way the tires are pointed. Also lay out the center of the bike and measure out to each 2x4 to be sure that both tires are pointed straight ahead.

 

As I said there are just my best guess for a good starting point.

[VanRiver]

Well the weather finally was nice enough to get my Dad aka "Test Pilot #2 " to try out the trike! We went for a short ride for him to get used to riding this contraption that does everything opposite to what a motorcycle usually feels like. I was worried that after 60 years of riding bikes, leaning into corners, and putting your feet down at stops signs he was going to hate it......but He really liked it! I was very relieved! He says it makes him feel much more secure and stress free while riding, which is exactly what I was shooting for.

 

But, I have a couple of bugs still to work out and some final tasks to finish:

 

- Need to finish the wiring for the trike fender lights

- Need to weld some additional supports for the fender towers (I tested the sucker for almost 150km before my Dad got on it, and one fender decided to come loose as soon as he hit the road for his test....just my luck!)

- Need to install the new progressive fork springs, replace the seals, and change fork oil.....front is almost laying on the ground....the old springs are so tired.

- Need to fix/adjust brakes, seems the R6 rear brakes have too much play for my Dad's liking....plus the forks leaked and contaminated the front brake pads, so they are "well lubricated" and not stopping worth a darn.

 

Here is a pic of my Dad with his new "Trike" after his first ride.

 

 

P.S......A shout out to all my fellow Albertans, and our hearts, support, and prayers go out to those who are unfortunately suffering the effects of the devastating forest fires up North.

[slowrollwv]

Glad your dad likes the trike. He sure looks happy.

[bongobobny]

Try a R1/R6 master cylinder with those R6 calipers, it may make the difference. Then again, stainless steel brake lines will also reduce some of the travel...

[cowpuc]

Absolutely BEAUTIFUL Riv:clap2::thumbsup:!!! Thank you for sharing this AMAZING story with us!! Your Father is a very fortunate man to have a side kick such as yourself!!

 

PS - THAT IS A FANTASTIC PIC OF YOUR DAD AND HIS NEW TRIKE - IT'S LOP EARED VARMINTS LIKE YOU WHO WILL BE THE DEMISE OF THE !

[mirider]

Well the weather finally was nice enough to get my Dad aka "Test Pilot #2 " to try out the trike! We went for a short ride for him to get used to riding this contraption that does everything opposite to what a motorcycle usually feels like. I was worried that after 60 years of riding bikes, leaning into corners, and putting your feet down at stops signs he was going to hate it......but He really liked it! I was very relieved! He says it makes him feel much more secure and stress free while riding, which is exactly what I was shooting for.

 

Nice job on the outrigger set-up. At 73 years old myself, I can fully relate to your dad's sense of security and stress free riding as I added a Voyager kit to my 09' RSV last August. In my case, health issues with the wife led to the conversion but I now feel much safer when we ride and she loves it too. Wishing you and your dad many happy travels.

[Condor]

Here's a place that might have some useful information that might answer some of the questions you have about setup and installation. It's a hodge..podge of videos. Just scroll down to find the subject that might help. http://www.mtcvoyager.com/videos/

 

Nice Job!! BTW....

[Yammer Dan]

Nice!!! Dad must be Proud!!!