Question...

[cwhite123174]

I have a 2004 RSV with 24,000 miles. I bought it last fall. I had all service records and it had an oil change about 500 miles before I bought it. I probably put another 2000 miles on that same oil. Here is my question...... I pulled it out of the garage for the first time of the year last weekend.....well...I had it running and I walked it out of the garage. It was kind of a cool day and since it really had not run much lately I let it idle for a few minutes while we got things around. My wife jumped on the back, I got situated and squeezed in the clutch, hit 1st and it jumped forward and died as if I dumped the clutch. I put it back in neutral, started it, squeezed the clutch again and it did the same thing. I repeated this one more time and this time it shifted into 1st ok. Told my wife we may as well try it. I rode it kinda hard through all gears for the next 10 miles or so and it didn't skip a beat. Shifted great and grabbed hard through all gears. Didn't feel like it was slipping at all.

Any ideas?

I am known to replace parts that don't need replaced... Meaning I fix what isn't broke. Would it be worth putting Barnett clutch plates in? Do I need the spring conversion kit as well? Or am I just overeacting?

I am going to be taking a big trip in August on the bike so I just want to be prepared. I will be with ALL Harley boys so I think with that said, you all know where I am going with this! [emoji6]

I will say that after the bike is warmed up, and I put it in neutral, it seems like I can hear a very slight growling noise and I can feel it in the clutch lever and brake lever but only while it's in neutral. My wife says I am nuts about hearing the noise but she said she can feel it..... "A little" ... In the levers. Not sure if this could be related to my concern or not.

Any thoughts or insight would be greatly appreciated.

Edited April 9, 2016 by cwhite123174

[Eck]

My opinion here: Viscosity (a fluid's resistance to flow) .

Being that you stated you pulled it out of the garage for the first time this year the clutch may have lost the oils viscosity (resistance of flow) between the plates from the bike sitting all winter.

When you put the bike in gear they grabbed hard because there was a loss of oil "coating" between the clutch plates from sitting.

You then stated you started it again and rode it hard for the next ten miles or so and it didn't skip a beat. Sounds like the oil / viscosity is loosing it's resistance to flow and is now flowing between all clutch plates.

On the first time out from previous year, it will take 2 to 5 miles or so to get all parts inside the engine and clutch completely coated with oil. The more you shift it during the first mile or so will get the oil onto and between all clutch plates. Before you start out next time (after letting it sit for a length of time), try starting the bike in neutral, pull in clutch, and while holding front brake, shift through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears to help get the oil flowing around the clutch plates. Then take off.

 

I would not go through the expense of installing the Barnett clutch plates in just yet. Ride it for a month or so and see if the detect slipping. If so, then move forward on changing clutch plates.

 

That's my 2 cents worth anyway. Hope what I said above works for you.

 

Eck

[cwhite123174]

Oh yeah...It all makes sense! I hear so much about the Barnett Clutch plates and then I found that there is a member on here that sells his own kind? I will do as you suggest and ride for a month or so and see how it goes!

Thanks for taking the time to answer!

Edited April 9, 2016 by cwhite123174

[Rafterd]

Not uncommon for a clutch to stick after sitting for long periods of time.

[BlueSky]

Way back in 1973, I bought a used 1973 Honda CB750 for a great price that had 800 miles on it. After sitting and getting cold, the clutch would make a noise when released. I called the Honda dealer shop and was told the clutch was dry and I could do one of two things to cure it. Bring it to them and they would disassemble it and lube the plates or I could just ride it a lot and it would self lubricate. Of course i rode it and the noise went away.

[cwhite123174]

As I said, I tend to spend money when it's really not necessary. I'm sure you are all right. I plan to change the oil in a week or so. This bike has had Amsoil used since new according to my service records and I chose to stay with Amsoil. I know oil cones with mixed emotions but since it was the drink of choice for this bike since new, I will just stay with it.... Unless someone tells me something about Amsoil I don't know about of course.

Edited April 9, 2016 by cwhite123174

[Freebird]

I don't use Amsoil but I certainly think it is good oil.

[cowpuc]

Hey C - THANKS for a really good question!! May as well toss IMHO here too, hope it doesnt really confuse you..

 

There are two different forms of "plates" that make up the clutch on your scoot - some are "fiber" and some are steel.. Those plates are stacked inside of a "basket" in alternating sequence and are held in engagement by some fairly stout spring pressue.. There is nothing between the plate stack (other then a thin film of oil because its a wet clutch) to encourage the plates to separate when you disengage (pull the clutch lever). If not used for a period of time it is not uncommon for the fiber discs to dry out and become fairly well attached to the steel plate causing the clutch to fail in its disengagement and to remain in an engaged state.. I have seen those plate so severely stuck together that I had to actually take the clutch apart and separate the plates by hand in order to free them up - another common prodecure to do so is to put the bike in gear and rock it back and forth until they free up..

Concerning the vibration or rumble you may be feeling. As the fiber plates dry out - the oil coating and impregnation in the fibers will (because of gravity) move downward in the fibers. It is possible for the fiber plates to end up with an imbalance of oil within them - oil soaked on the bottoms and not on the tops - resulting in a vibration - make sense? I ran a centerless grinder for a while years ago and the grind wheels we used had to be soaked in oil before using - it was extremely important that operators rotated the grind wheels in oil storage to maintain their balance or those suckers would/good actually fly apart from the very type of imbalance I am speaking of.. Does any of that make sense?

All that said,, I totally agree with riding the scoot and keeping track of the vibration's your feeling and see if it gets better over time - it should.. If you notice your clutch slipping - especially under a load in higher gears you may want to consider a plate swap.

Here is a question you really need to ask yourself.. Think back carefully of when you disengaged the clutch and it didnt disengage.. Do you recall the "feel" in the clutch lever? Did it "feel" normal or did it "feel" like there was nothing there? The reason I ask is there is always a potential of a small amount of air having found its way up into the master.. What color is your clutch fluid? You might want to consider a fluid swap in the system before you do any real long distance rides..

As far as Amsoil goes (watch me hang myself with this one ),, I personally like good ol fashion Dino oils myself.. Running 15/40 Rotella around Michigan and 20/50 Super Tech out in the heat of the desert regions - both in NON ENERGY EFFICIENT -truck oil has served me well thru the years.. The problem with any of the speciality oils, high energy stuff and synthetics is (again - watch me hang myself) they arent usually "wet clutch" friendly from my perspective.. I have NO experience with Amsoil products in wet clutch applications and would be curious to know what type of Amsoil product you have been using.. I would LOVE to google the product and see if others have had similar issues with plates sticking together after sitting in storage over the winter season..

Another? Did you check your oil before starting your scoot? Also, hopefully you remembered to check air pressures in your tires before heading out....

Wow,, did this turn into an essay,, sorry bout that:missingtooth:

[Lug Nut]

I bought my RSV recently with 14k miles....flushed brake and clutch fluid out and replaced with Prestone DOT 4 synthetic....much better feel to brakes and clutch. Maybe do this since it's easy and practically free. As far as oil...any motorcycle 4T for this type V4 engine that is full synthetic should be fine.

[ragtop69gs]

Amsoil is good stuff at a premium price, way overkill for these engines, for turbo applications it's great. Most RSV's seem to run pretty good on Rotella T6 synthetic diesel oil @ $21 per gallon.

[cwhite123174]

Thanks for taking so much time to explain! It does make sense. Very good sense! My clutch felt normal when I squeezed it in. I was just confused how it died instantly... Twice. Then it was fine.

As for the clutch fluid, I have not checked it but through the little window, it's very very clear and clean. My brake fluid is a little dark but I will do the turkey baster technic for that since I don't have a brake bleeder/vacuum.

I just replaced my tires last fall so that was one of the first things I did when I walked it out of the garage was check the pressure.

Thanks again for all the explaining! I continue to learn more and more about this bike! I just DON'T want to have anything happen while on my trip because I am going with 4 other Harley riders and they give me crap about not having bought one. I just tell them mine is paid for....is yours? They each have $400+ payments. Crazy!

[Eck]

Thanks for taking so much time to explain! It does make sense. Very good sense! My clutch felt normal when I squeezed it in. I was just confused how it died instantly... Twice. Then it was fine.

As for the clutch fluid, I have not checked it but through the little window, it's very very clear and clean. ........

 

Just another precaution suggestion here @cwhite123174, if you are going to replace your brake fluid out and installing fresh brake fluid, you may want to consider replacing the clutch fluid out and refilling it with fresh fluid also even though the clutch fluid appears to be clear in the sight window. This way you know without doubt that all those lines have been maintained and are ready to go for several thousands of "smiles".

 

[cwhite123174]

Thanks for taking so much time to explain! It does make sense. Very good sense! My clutch felt normal when I squeezed it in. I was just confused how it died instantly... Twice. Then it was fine.

As for the clutch fluid, I have not checked it but through the little window, it's very very clear and clean. ........

 

Just another precaution suggestion here @cwhite123174, if you are going to replace your brake fluid out and installing fresh brake fluid, you may want to consider replacing the clutch fluid out and refilling it with fresh fluid also even though the clutch fluid appears to be clear in the sight window. This way you know without doubt that all those lines have been maintained and are ready to go for several thousands of "smiles".

 

Yeah. Not a bad idea. [emoji106]

[Eck]

@cwhite123174, you have most likely visited this site before here, but thought I would post it for you anyway just in case you have not seen it before.

This is a link here on this site, that talks about many known problems with the RSV. Since you are preparing your bike for the long haul with your Harley riding friends, there may be something mentioned in this link that you have not checked on your bike.

Hope this may bring some added security for you. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?1067-A-list-of-known-problems-on-the-Second-Gen-Venture

[bongobobny]

OK a couple of people mentioned it and I will mention it AGAIN! Flush your hydraulic clutch!! When the fluid gets old and cruddy the clutch will not completely DISENGAGE which is EXACTLY what symptoms you will experience as you described!! Try to pop your bike into gear without squeezing the clutch lever and it will act as you described! 24,000 miles is a little premature to have any of the problems you are describing, and if anything, the clutch will slip, not lock up. Clutch hydraulic fluid should be changed every 3 to 4 years...

 

Just turkey baster'ing the reservoir does NOT replace the cruddy fluid in the slave, which is where your problem most likely exists. Perhaps the cheapest way to go is replace your bleeder with a "speed bleeder" which costs less than $10, and makes bleeding a breeze! All you do is loosen the bleeder, attach a hose to it and pump the fluid through, no need to retighten the bleeder every pump as the speed bleeder has a 1 way valve installed in it and it will not draw air when you let lose of the lever. The absolute best route to go is use a Vacuum pump, which costs around $30 to $40 at Auto Zone, O'Reilys, Advance Auto, etc. Do NOT go to NAPA, you will end up spending another $20 to $30 for the exact same vacuum pump!

[Condor]

I also bought an '04RSV, with 65K on the odo, that the previous owner ran Amsoil Synthetic from day one. Just a few weeks ago while working on it I couldn't get it to go into 1st. Exact same symptoms as you had. However in my case the clutch fluid got low and I lost the hydraulics. Bled the clutch, which did look pretty black and needed it badly, and life was good again. I've also had other RSV's where a simple rocking back in forth in 3rd gear broke the plates free.

[MikeWa]

Sounds like air in the clutch hydraulic system to me.

 

Mike

[RogerRoger]

I'd like to second the suggestion of flushing the hydraulic systems. I don't think this was the problem with your clutch. (This has been well explained as a lack of lubrication after a long winter's sleep.) I simply suggest that after several years the hygroscopic nature of brake fluid causes water to build up the system and cause corrosion and changes the pressure transferring properties of the fluid.

 

I'm sure there are many threads on bleeding the system but flushing is a process of simply bleeding the brakes over and over again (while refilling the reservoir) until clear, clean fluid presents itself at the slave cylinder. Can't hurt and might certainly help.

[cwhite123174]

Here is something else. I went out for a much bigger ride today. Weather was beautiful! Anyway, I intentionally pulled hard in 3rd, 4th and 5th....just to see if it felt like it was slipping. Never did. Pulled hard every time. When we got back home and parked and did like most of us do and just sat back in the lawn chair and stared at the bike. I decided it was time to put it away for the night so I jumped on it, started it and was just about to put it in gear when I heard a slight growl coming from the clutch housing and I could feel it through the handle bars... Just like I stated before. So, I pulled in the clutch and held it and most of the vibration and sound slowly went away. Slowly. Almost to nothing. I released the clutch, still in neutral, and it started again making the sound and the slight handlbar vibration. Repeated a couple times with the same result. Thought about it for a second and put it in gear, no issues. Went relatively smooth... Like it normally does I guess. My buddies 2015 Ultra Limited sounds horrible when he puts his in gear! Big clunk.

[Du-Rron]

I change my clutch fluid twice a year or so.

 

See here

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?97279-Baking-Clutch-Fluid-Exhaust-Heat-Shield