Starter just quit

[Dragonslayer]

... know what happens when you hook the battery up backwards?

 

The horn sucks, the radio listens and the lights cast shadows...

I meant...

 

​That would suck

[yamagrl]

I'm not sure where the Starting System Cutoff Relay is located but I'm attaching a screen shot of pg 8-1 of the manual. It's number 19 and appears to be right behind the engine, pretty close to the Igniter

 

Have you gone through the tests that I posted yesterday? If so what were the results? You should determine all of this first.

 

I'm not sure about the lights dimming etc. Most of those kind of feed through or are somehow connected to the Starting System Cutoff Relay. Some of it could be normal and some of it could be a secondary symptom of the root problem in the component the root problem lies. If the faulty component is grounding out then that might also explain some of the other symptoms/dimming.

 

I'll be traveling a lot over the next few days so my responses may be delayed.

 

Edited April 28, 2016 by yamagrl

[bongobobny]

Yah Bob, it's in the center between the fake battery cover where the fuel pump and fuel filter are located. You have to take both phony covers off, and then remove that plastic piece that goes between the covers. You have to unclip the spark plug wires from the clips on that cover, and it takes a bit of wiggling and cursing to get it to finally come out! Remove the seat, and the radiator overflow tank, and unbolt the bracket that holds the fuel pump, etc.

 

First and formost, DO THE TEST Heather and I suggested before you tear into the bike any more than you have to!!! Now, it is interesting indeed that you have the indicator light issues, with my melted case it induced a ground which triggered my oil and temp light, but I don't remember the fuel gauge going out, but then again I didn't really look either! I just remember staring at the wiring schematic for hours before I thought to look at the Starting Circuit Cut Off Relay assembly for a possible pinched wire, etc. and that's when I found the assembly off of it's mount and laying half melted on the engine! A definite AHHH, that's the problem moment!!!

[crowrod]

does the main fuse 30 amp have a spare 30 amp fuse in the same block? maybe you are checking the wrong fuse. this is the block hiding inside the frame next to the battery box.

[yamagrl]

If you have done all of the above tests and everything checks out OK. And you are certain about that then about the only thing left is the Starting System Cutoff relay.

 

It certainly looks like a short in there could cause both the oil and temp lights to come on.

 

Bongobobny has me convinced that the SSCR (Starting System Cutoff Relay) is kind of tedious and involved to get to. So I'd make darn sure that all of the above stuff is in fact...OK

[bongobobny]

Ehhh, not real bad, it takes about 15 minutes give or take to get to it, but yes, sort of a mild pain in the butt...

[Dragonslayer]

We can start at the solenoid since you are already there.

For clarity, the start relay is a separate component from the start solenoid. The solenoid is the one with the big wires direct from the battery. Just so we are all using the same nomenclature for clarity.

 

If you connect +12V to the Red/White pin and ground to the Blue pin of the solenoid, it will crank if the solenoid is good.

 

On the wire harness side, if you connect your volt meter from the red white wire to ground you should see 12V anytime the key is on. If you set the meter to Ohms and connect from the blue wire to ground, it should read no continuity, when you push the start button it should read very low resistance. These tests can also be done with a test light.

Ok, with the ignition switch on and pressing the start button. I do not have 12 volts to the red/white wire, nor do I have continuity from blue wire to ground.

[Flyinfool]

OK we'll chase the easy one first.

Check at the ignition fuse to see if you have 12V on both sides of the fuse with the ignition on. There should be 2 tiny metal terminals in the top of the fuse to check power at.

 

If power only on one side of fuse, replace the fuse even if it looks good.

 

If there is power on both sides of fuse, you have a break in the red white wire somewhere between the fuse and the solenoid.

 

If power on neither side of fuse, check the signal fuse for power on both sides.

 

Report back.

[Dragonslayer]

Ok,....... Problem solved

 

Yamagrl Heather detoured (200 miles) from Kentucky to Pensacola via Atlanta to drop by and help me scratch my head. What a gal, I'm definitely recommending her for a service award.

 

We started probing around checking this and checking that until we got to the quick connect plug from the engine kill switch. Now this is a different right handlebar switch assembly since the bike originally failed. I had plugged and unplugged that connect a half a dozen times and ohmed the kill switch through that plug and could not find a problem. And yes I did have the kill switch in the run position. But, this time when we stuck the probe through the back of the connect to check for voltage on the blue/white wire all of a sudden we had current and the bike crunked right up just like it was supposed to. Go figure, a loose connection?????????

 

Next week I'll be putting all the stuff back on I took off trouble shooting the dang thing. Then ride.

 

My hat is off to Yamagrl, Thanks for all your time and trouble to help another stranger Venturerider out. I'm not surprised after all the years witnessing the venturerider magic on this site and all the amazing acts of kindness I've witnessed, Yamagrl, I'm totally in your debt. Thanks a bunch. Be expecting a visitor next time I can come your way.

 

[bongobobny]

Yes, Heather CERTAINLY knows her stuff!! A huge Well Done and hats off to her!!

 

Glad the problem is finally fixed!!!

[Flyinfool]

Glad you got it fixed.

Hands on can do in an hour what would take days of step by step in a forum.

[Dragonslayer]

Your no Fool I don't care what Puc sez, your exactly right.

[yamagrl]

Ok,....... Problem solved

 

Yamagrl Heather detoured (200 miles) from Kentucky to Pensacola via Atlanta to drop by and help me scratch my head. What a gal, I'm definitely recommending her for a service award.

 

We started probing around checking this and checking that until we got to the quick connect plug from the engine kill switch. Now this is a different right handlebar switch assembly since the bike originally failed. I had plugged and unplugged that connect a half a dozen times and ohmed the kill switch through that plug and could not find a problem. And yes I did have the kill switch in the run position. But, this time when we stuck the probe through the back of the connect to check for voltage on the blue/white wire all of a sudden we had current and the bike crunked right up just like it was supposed to. Go figure, a loose connection?????????

 

Next week I'll be putting all the stuff back on I took off trouble shooting the dang thing. Then ride.

 

My hat is off to Yamagrl, Thanks for all your time and trouble to help another stranger Venturerider out. I'm not surprised after all the years witnessing the venturerider magic on this site and all the amazing acts of kindness I've witnessed, Yamagrl, I'm totally in your debt. Thanks a bunch. Be expecting a visitor next time I can come your way.

Sometimes it just takes another set of eyes.

 

For those of you who might be wondering how it all worked out. See photo below. (for the following procedures we are ignoring the existence the diodes and the Fuel Pump Relay within the SCCR because they are not presenting any apparent problem at this point)

 

On the lime green highligted circuit, Bob and I verified current on

• 12V on R/W at the solenoid
  
• 12V on L at the solenoid
  
• ​12V on L at SCCR (Starting Circuit Cutoff Relay)
  
• ...but no current at the L/W on SCCR
  
• We verified continuity through the Engine Start Switch to ground
  

That meant that the SCCR internal contacts were not closed/activated.

 

In neutral with ignition on and Engine Cutoff Switch in run position The SCCR internal contacts should always be closed, thus allowing current to make it's way through the lime green highlighted circuit from the ignition fuse all the way to ground at the Engine Start Switch causing the Starter Solenoid to engage the starter motor.

So now we had established that the problem was in the coil side of the SCCR circuit (light blue highlighted circuit)

 

We then began our trace at the (X) on SCCR to determine whether the problem was north or south of the SCCR.

 

• No current at R/B at SCCR (X)
  
• Went north to the connector for the Engine Stop Switch (arrow)
  
• Engine Stop Switch in Run
  
• 12V on R/W at the connector but...
  
• No current on the R/B at the connector. So we fooled around with it a bit, got 12V , hit the start button and...
  

​

 

VAROOM! Another dragon slain!

 

[yamagrl]

Ok,....... Problem solved

 

Yamagrl Heather detoured (200 miles) from Kentucky to Pensacola via Atlanta to drop by and help me scratch my head. What a gal, I'm definitely recommending her for a service award.

 

We started probing around checking this and checking that until we got to the quick connect plug from the engine kill switch. Now this is a different right handlebar switch assembly since the bike originally failed. I had plugged and unplugged that connect a half a dozen times and ohmed the kill switch through that plug and could not find a problem. And yes I did have the kill switch in the run position. But, this time when we stuck the probe through the back of the connect to check for voltage on the blue/white wire all of a sudden we had current and the bike crunked right up just like it was supposed to. Go figure, a loose connection?????????

 

Next week I'll be putting all the stuff back on I took off trouble shooting the dang thing. Then ride.

 

My hat is off to Yamagrl, Thanks for all your time and trouble to help another stranger Venturerider out. I'm not surprised after all the years witnessing the venturerider magic on this site and all the amazing acts of kindness I've witnessed, Yamagrl, I'm totally in your debt. Thanks a bunch. Be expecting a visitor next time I can come your way.

 

Bob,

It was my pleasure to help, because...

 

I get off on '57 Chevys;

I get off on screaming guitar.

Like the way it hits me every time it hits me.

I've got a rock and roll, I've got a rock and roll heart.

[Dragonslayer]

Bob,

It was my pleasure to help, because...

 

I get off on '57 Chevys;

I get off on screaming guitar.

Like the way it hits me every time it hits me.

I've got a rock and roll, I've got a rock and roll heart.

:cool10::guitarist 2::680::2132: My kind of Gal

[Dragonslayer]

Sometimes it just takes another set of eyes.

 

For those of you who might be wondering how it all worked out. See photo below. (for the following procedures we are ignoring the existence the diodes and the Fuel Pump Relay within the SCCR because they are not presenting any apparent problem at this point)

 

On the lime green highligted circuit, Bob and I verified current on

• 12V on R/W at the solenoid
  
• 12V on L at the solenoid
  
• ​12V on L at SCCR (Starting Circuit Cutoff Relay)
  
• ...but no current at the L/W on SCCR
  
• We verified continuity through the Engine Start Switch to ground
  

That meant that the SCCR internal contacts were not closed/activated.

 

In neutral with ignition on and Engine Cutoff Switch in run position The SCCR internal contacts should always be closed, thus allowing current to make it's way through the lime green highlighted circuit from the ignition fuse all the way to ground at the Engine Start Switch causing the Starter Solenoid to engage the starter motor.

So now we had established that the problem was in the coil side of the SCCR circuit (light blue highlighted circuit)

 

We then began our trace at the (X) on SCCR to determine whether the problem was north or south of the SCCR.

 

• No current at R/B at SCCR (X)
  
• Went north to the connector for the Engine Stop Switch (arrow)
  
• Engine Stop Switch in Run
  
• 12V on R/W at the connector but...
  
• No current on the R/B at the connector. So we fooled around with it a bit, got 12V , hit the start button and...
  

​

 

VAROOM! Another dragon slain!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]105198[/ATTACH]

You have definitely earned your Dragonslayer badge

[yamagrl]

I'm now officially a "Junior Dragonslayer"!

 

You have definitely earned your Dragonslayer badge

[Dragonslayer]

I'm now officially a "Junior Dragonslayer"!

No, your were already a junior Dragonslayer. You are now a Master Dragonslayer.... like me.