Got a new (new to me) 86 Royale

[audio_mekanik]

Thanks for the welcome.

I picked up a 86 royale with 40k about a week ago for a steal and have been lurking on here since. Lots of information on this forum and a wealth of information from the knowledgeable users on here. I am expecting lots of boxes at my door this week.

 

Things on my to-do list:

 

Air suspension controller:

-diagnosed down to broken solder joints

Cruise control:

-powers on but will not engage,

read that switch by clutch lever might not be working properly.

Front end wobble:

-got the bike down the block for first test of everything and shake-shake-shake.

I have 2 new tires on order

and the front is awful worn. Also on the center stand the head has just a tad of slop in it. I want to tighten the head bearings just a tad.

Does everybody use the special spanner tool to do that or can i snug just a bit with a punch/hammer?

Only starts but revs/dies when warmed up:

-choke linkage was loose and only activating half of the carbs, linkage came loose and choke on other 2 carbs were on constantly.

I reconnected that and it seems better, but has a funky mid throttle response

.

 

-Sometimes throttle response will pull hard and sometimes it doesn't.

I am pulling carbs for a clean/inspection of diaphragms.

-I pulled the carbs and went thru them last night: all 4 slide diaphragms have holes in them. 1 pilot jet was plugged and all of the mixture screws were awful dirty (They were all set at 2 1/2 turns out. That seems too far out for any carb tuning I have previously done.

I put them back @ 1 3/4 and ordered new diaphragms.

The other set of diaphragms on the side of the carbs, I assume those act like accelerator pumps?

They looked in good shape.

-2 of the carb holders have the typical 30 year old aging cracks.

New set on order also

General maintenance items:

-Greasing up rear shaft splines when putting on new rear tire.

Pulled apart and splines are dry, makes me nervous about other maintenance items on the bike.

-I am also reading about lubing up the rear swingarm/shock bearings. I haven't checked yet to see if mine has zerk fittings or not.

 

 

I picked up an 83 parts bike for an uncracked windshield and better seat this last weekend (proper number of bikes = n+1; n=current number of bikes haha) but I am unsure if i want to part it as it is probably better shape than my "good" royale. I can decide that after i get the mechanicals ironed out.

 

 

Other than a few issues it appears just preventive maintenance and this should be a trusty steed for many years to come.

 

 

 

[bongobobny]

As far as the head bearing torque, yes to do it properly you should use the special spanner tool, and use it correctly!! The spanner should point out the side of the torque wrench, not forward! If it is pointing forward it acts as a torque multiplier!! In other words it adds torque, you are actually applying more torque than what the wrench is reading! When it points 90 degrees from the wrench you are using it properly...

[audio_mekanik]

I read in the service manual that the torque wrench needs to be at 90 degreees from the spanner tool, but watching the yamaha service video on youtube for Yamaha Venture 1984-1992 Motorcycle Maintenance. It actually doesn't show torquing the nut, just adjusting it until it "feels" right. (I think i linked the right video, can't see it where i am at).

 

I will get one ordered so I can get that done properly.

 

Thanks bongobobny

[bongobobny]

Whaaaat??? Improper information on youtube?!!? Next thing you will be telling me that not everything is true on the internet...

 

[BlueSky]

That video is an official yamaha video, one of the series that has been on the web for a while.

[audio_mekanik]

It is an old official Yamaha video. I believe it was sent to dealerships when the bikes were new to help the techs work on the bikes. That is why it had some merit in my mind.

 

Parts are coming in the mail, kind of a waiting game at the moment.

[mbova]

I like the video. I think it could be very useful.

[GaryZ]

Front end wobble:

-got the bike down the block for first test of everything and shake-shake-shake.

I have 2 new tires on order

and the front is awful worn. Also on the center stand the head has just a tad of slop in it. I want to tighten the head bearings just a tad.

Does everybody use the special spanner tool to do that or can i snug just a bit with a punch/hammer?

 

Welcome to the forum. As with most "special tool" questions, some owners recommend them and others find another way. I did not use a "special tool".

 

I wanted to mention that the head bearings are standard sized and can be purchased by size from a bearing supplier. My '85 started exhibiting a "detent" or notch when the front tire was straight. This notch made it difficult to hold a straight track on the road. This is a typical symptom of a heavy bike with lots of miles on it, or a lighter bike that has been doing wheelies.

 

I took the bearings out with a hammer hitting a pry bar, striking in the small slots around the bearing perimeter, and they popped right out. Measure how thick they are, the ID (inside diameter) and OD outside diameter. Order replacement captured roller bearings with the measured dimensions. They can be found on-line as little as a couple of bucks. I tapped the new ones in place with a cut down 2x4.

 

Re-assemble the steering head and set the torque. I used the method of bouncing off the steering stop. With the front end completely assembled and the front wheel off the ground, lightly push the bars far left or right and they should bounce off the steering stop a couple of inches. No bounce means too tight, more than a couple of inches means too loose.

[Yammer Dan]

Welcome to the forum. As with most "special tool" questions, some owners recommend them and others find another way. I did not use a "special tool".

 

I wanted to mention that the head bearings are standard sized and can be purchased by size from a bearing supplier. My '85 started exhibiting a "detent" or notch when the front tire was straight. This notch made it difficult to hold a straight track on the road. This is a typical symptom of a heavy bike with lots of miles on it, or a lighter bike that has been doing wheelies.

 

I took the bearings out with a hammer hitting a pry bar, striking in the small slots around the bearing perimeter, and they popped right out. Measure how thick they are, the ID (inside diameter) and OD outside diameter. Order replacement captured roller bearings with the measured dimensions. They can be found on-line as little as a couple of bucks. I tapped the new ones in place with a cut down 2x4.

 

Re-assemble the steering head and set the torque. I used the method of bouncing off the steering stop. With the front end completely assembled and the front wheel off the ground, lightly push the bars far left or right and they should bounce off the steering stop a couple of inches. No bounce means too tight, more than a couple of inches means too loose.

 

[Yammer Dan]

Welcome to the forum. As with most "special tool" questions, some owners recommend them and others find another way. I did not use a "special tool".

 

I wanted to mention that the head bearings are standard sized and can be purchased by size from a bearing supplier. My '85 started exhibiting a "detent" or notch when the front tire was straight. This notch made it difficult to hold a straight track on the road. This is a typical symptom of a heavy bike with lots of miles on it, or a lighter bike that has been doing wheelies.

 

I took the bearings out with a hammer hitting a pry bar, striking in the small slots around the bearing perimeter, and they popped right out. Measure how thick they are, the ID (inside diameter) and OD outside diameter. Order replacement captured roller bearings with the measured dimensions. They can be found on-line as little as a couple of bucks. I tapped the new ones in place with a cut down 2x4.

 

Re-assemble the steering head and set the torque. I used the method of bouncing off the steering stop. With the front end completely assembled and the front wheel off the ground, lightly push the bars far left or right and they should bounce off the steering stop a couple of inches. No bounce means too tight, more than a couple of inches means too loose.

 

[audio_mekanik]

Got rear end regreased and fluid changed today. Went to put the back tire and couldn't get the axle in. Struggled with that for a bit before realizing that I should loosen the rear end as it could be out of alignment. Axle slid right in, oh duh moment.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

I will be coming from an 81 xs1100 midnight so riding the venture should be fantastic for my 100 mile commute.

[cowpuc]

Hey Audi - :welcome1: to VR and :ice_congrats-vi6886:ice_congrats-vi6886 on the "new" scoots!!

 

Got yourself a couple a DANDIES there my friend - YOU are gonna have a BALL!!!

 

Got an awesome thread going here,, thought I better jump in and share some thoughts before all the points of interest get used up!! First of all - looks like you are headed PERFECTLY in the right direction with all your doing!! If it were mine I would also let all the air out of the front forks - stand her upright and pay special attention to how much travel I had left in the forks. You get below two inches of static height and it is probably time for some progressive springs.. I would, at a minimum, swap in some new fork fluid even if it didnt need new springs.. I would also centerstand the scoot, free roll the rear wheel - jam on the brakes and make sure the caliper and stickin.. Fairly easy to clean the caliper pistons if ya catch before they hang up.. Do the same for the front wheel BUT remember these have a linked system - left caliper on the front is linked to the rear brake..

Bleed in new fluids into clutch and brake systems..

 

CONGRATS MY FRIEND ON THE NEW SCOOT(S) and again WELCOME to the family!!

Puc

[audio_mekanik]

So the brake caliper thing. I took the rear caliper apart as it had a stuck piston in it. couldn't seem to get it un-stuck. I have a set of blue-dot r6 calipers coming for the front to replace a stuck piston on the front left. I figured out the front right caliper can be placed on the rear, just the bleeder is in the wrong position (could trap air) and caliper is slightly wider. I put that on there until i can get the old rear one fixed as it seems to be working fine. (main concern is extra width, when the pads get worn it might be possible for cups to be extended too far.)

 

I need to flush the clutch system yet. Front/rear brake oil was very bad, had to run lots of clean thru before it got remotely clear.

 

I am planning on replacing the front fork oil. I pulled the wiper and it appears to be pretty new and no oil/dirt underneath it so I feel the seals are in good shape. I will check the sag on the front for the springs.

 

I did catch a thread on the coolant pipe so decided to take a glance at that. shoot, crack the length of the pipe from where the crash-bar hit it. So i guess question: Does the Vmax coolant elbow fit? kind of pricey but cool looking aluminum http://exactrep.com/acatalog/engine_enhancements.html ? or $45 oem?

 

Some differences i noticed between 86 and the 83. I have not seen vented rotors quite like the ones on the 83 before. thought they were interesting looking and must of been quite expensive when new, showing the amount of effort Yamaha put into making these bikes.

[audio_mekanik]

Got my CLASS soldered up today. I forgot to take before pictures but here are a few pics after soldering the connector.

 

Here is a pic from the net, joint on the left is fine, joint on the right is broken:

 

Here is the bottom of the CLASS

 

 

This is the connector that had broken solder joints:

 

 

here is a pic after resoldering (don't judge my soldering abilities )

 

[bongobobny]

Good job!!

 

Here's a few technical notes for others. All solder very sloooowly deteriorates with age, but with the edge connectors, it's the vibration from the large mass that it is that speeds the whole deterioration process on!

 

For a good repair, use a good soldering iron, NOT a soldering gun! Thin rosin core solder is a must! Actually, if you have just plain rosin, that works equally well, as it is the rosin that cleans the area being soldered, you really don't need to add much new solder as there is already a ample amount of solder already there!!

[audio_mekanik]

so I got the bike back together for a test ride last night:

 

Started right up, got the carbsync on there and sync'd the carbs after it got totally warm (radiator fan turned on) Got a pretty reasonable sync and it sounded pretty good sitting in the garage revving/running. Took it out for a short jaunt and realized bike runs very well other than high rpm/wide open. spits and stumbles horrible. I have the pilot screws set @ 1 3/4, I have always set them for maximum idle but they did not seem to effect idle much if at all. I read a 5 year old thread HERE: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?61629-85-venture-dies-at-5200 and didn't get a very good conclusion from it, but sounds almost identical to my symptoms. I have seafoam in the tank already. It was getting pretty late so I did not fill bowls with seafoam for a soak. When i pulled the carbs to clean I did not replace the rubber plugs on the jet block as they seemed to fit very snug and well. Honestly the carbs were probably the "cleanest" dirty carbs I have gone thru. I assumed the stumble was form the diaphram holes as it acted like the slides were not moving correctly and I replaced those. I will check the slide movement tonight and make sure they are moving correctly.

 

 

The thread also talks about the "boost switch". I have it hooked to the intake boot on carb#2, as that is where i pulled it off from, does that sound right? Also sounds like that will just hurt performance, not cause a stumble. I have had bikes run out of fuel at high rpm/load from pinched fuel lines but it does not feel like that. That old bike pulled strong and then started falling on face after ≈3-4 seconds full power. The Venture does not act like that. I did not verify float levels, as one of the carbs has the drain piece broken off.

 

so my list to work on the stumble:

 

1. check operation of vacuum slides

2. check float height. (not sure how to with broken plastic hose adapter on drain?) (Spec on MkII bikes is 15.5-16.5mm)

 

Another quick etiquette question: should i be uploading pictures on the site to show, or hosting them on external site and linking them to save server space?

[audio_mekanik]

So what i have gotten done on the bike this week:

 

read on the forum that the tci could be causing issues with the wide open throttle problem I have. I pulled the tci from the bike and the connectors were pretty corroded up.

 

 

I pulled the tci apart to check for corrosion inside, there had been water in there at some point in time. There was also a broken solder connector inside, could have been from me flexing around on the connector to get it off.

 

 

 

I do have the old glass diodes (red circles) with just a small amount of corrosion on those (red arrow) in my tci, but i don't have the parts to change them yet (ordered diodes and also electrolytic caps). I cleaned up all the corrosion I could, got the connectors all shiney. I put it back together for now. The connectors in the harness were not too corroded. Does anybody know where i can get the new spade terminals that slide into the connector on the wire harness? I would like to replace a couple that are getting corroded.

 

 

I re-installed the tci, relocating it above the airbox. Bike still has the same wot hesitation/stumble.

 

 

2nd thing: I got the valve shim tool in the mail, pulled my covers and the first couple valves that I checked are WAY too tight. Measured .05mm for first two. So valve adjustment is coming in the near future (probably this weekend) I am not sure if this would affect the wide open throttle response but it is something that needs to get done. Found This spreadsheet from DINGY http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?43410-Valve-adjustment-Excel-spreadsheet looks very helpful

 

 

3rd thing: Installed the used R6 calipers on the front. Very easy swap. My hand vacuum brake bleeder took a crap so I am picking up a pnuematic powered brake bleeder tonight to bleed everything on the bike.

 

 

4th thing: So when you get frustrated on working on something and don't get results, you work on something that is easy to do.

I installed a super-brace last night (thanks ebay). yeah only 4 bolts but did get something accomplished

 

 

 

[GaryZ]

I re-installed the tci, relocating it above the airbox. Bike still has the same wot hesitation/stumble.

 

Installed the used R6 calipers on the front. Very easy swap. My hand vacuum brake bleeder took a crap so I am picking up a pnuematic powered brake bleeder tonight to bleed everything on the bike.

 

Let us know if, or when, you find the WOT miss. My '92 is driving me nuts with the same prob.

I find it strange that I have never needed any special brake bleeder for a motorcycle.

I have always used a short piece of fuel line and a glass bottle or jar . . .

[yamagrl]

Valve shim calculation can basically be done in your head. The math is quite simple. The shims are metric, hence 2.75= 2.75mm. Here's a post I did awhile back.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?105498-Easy-Peazy-Valve-Shim-Calculator

 

 

THINK METRIC

Measured Clearance

+ Existing Shim

= Existing Total

- Ideal/Average clearance

= Ideal new shim size.

[Trader]

be REAL careful when you do the shims. If the tools slips or if you feel any resistance STOP!!!!

I used a tool that had been broken and re-welded and I think it had bent so the opening was a bit wide and it didn't fit the cams properly.

In my ignorance I used it any way and in so doing I mashed some of the aluminium between the lifters.

 

I've tried grinding but several of the lifters are jammed.

So now I had to pull the motor out of my parts bike and I'm going to use the heads off that. A LOT OF WORK!!!!

Like I said...tread lightly.

 

They say you learn from your mistakes and Hindsight is 20/20.

I should be a genius by now an be able to see a pin head at 200 yards!

[audio_mekanik]

I am kind of a tool collector I just wanted an excuse for a new brake bleeder.

 

I have been watching and reading quite a bit on the valve shims. I have done a xs1100 before. Different style of tool but similar valve buckets (might actually be same?) The wot stumble has me stumped. I started with good battery and related connections. Then cleaned carbs. Then on to ecu. Now valves. If that doesn't work then back to carbs with lots of new brass and rubber parts. If still no success them we will throw money at a tci.

 

I still feel it is tci related.

Is there a way to bench test the tci? I have some DC supplies and signal generators and a scope. Just much harder and slower to troubleshoot a module without a schematic.

Edited April 25, 2016 by audio_mekanik

[Trader]

Why not just plug in a known good tic and see if it makes any difference

[videoarizona]

High speed miss....

 

Floats.

Plugs and wires.

 

Yes.. It's OK to post pics in your posts. We prefer it..

[cowpuc]

Agree with VideoAZ!

High speed miss:

 

Another thing to try is, remove the side covers, drape a towel over the headlight , start the bike in total darkness and look carefully at the plug wires you should see no leakage.. Check plug caps for high ohms. Make sure you gap your new plugs - .032. Also check carb slides for non-sticky smooth movement, diaphrams for pin holes and sync the carbs. Also check your battery and charging system which it sounds like you did. I would also drain fuel from the carb bowls into a clean glass jar and check for water in fuel - can also compare amount of fuel in each bowl by doing so (four baby food jars work perfect for this), if you have a float set to low you will find it this way. If you find debris in your fuel you can go to an ag store and pick up a 50cc syringe - fill the syringe with carb cleaner and fill the carb until thru the drain hose until the carb cleaner comes out the mainjet (its the hole where the metering rod on the slide goes in). Now pump the syringe to agitate the carb cleaner in the carb bowl. Suck it back out and close the drain. To check the tank for debris/moisture you can remove the seat and remove the fuel gauge sending unit and clearly see in the tank with a pen light.

[audio_mekanik]

Agree with VideoAZ!

High speed miss:

 

Another thing to try is, remove the side covers, drape a towel over the headlight , start the bike in total darkness and look carefully at the plug wires you should see no leakage.. Check plug caps for high ohms. Make sure you gap your new plugs - .032. Also check carb slides for non-sticky smooth movement, diaphrams for pin holes and sync the carbs. Also check your battery and charging system which it sounds like you did. I would also drain fuel from the carb bowls into a clean glass jar and check for water in fuel - can also compare amount of fuel in each bowl by doing so (four baby food jars work perfect for this), if you have a float set to low you will find it this way. If you find debris in your fuel you can go to an ag store and pick up a 50cc syringe - fill the syringe with carb cleaner and fill the carb until thru the drain hose until the carb cleaner comes out the mainjet (its the hole where the metering rod on the slide goes in). Now pump the syringe to agitate the carb cleaner in the carb bowl. Suck it back out and close the drain. To check the tank for debris/moisture you can remove the seat and remove the fuel gauge sending unit and clearly see in the tank with a pen light.

 

 

I will check the wires resistance as I did not do that. I have shims coming so need to button the valves up before getting back to the wires.

 

Why not just plug in a known good tic and see if it makes any difference

 

Would the TCI from an 83 work?

 

Also found a few more older threads http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?39263-XVZ1200-Acceleration-quot-lurches-quot and it has pretty good advice on where to look on connectors/other things.

 

Thanks for the help. I will update when I get some things looked at.

Edited April 26, 2016 by audio_mekanik