HLEP>>>>>>need a shim tool

[Trader]

Anybody got a shim tool I can borrow or buy?

 

 

Mother (Scott) came up for a day to help me with my bike....got the clutch sorted out. We had to open the bleeder while we tightened the clutch springs. Every time we tried to put it together the push rod would end up too far out and the clutch would be frozen. Pushed in the rod but by the time we got it together it wouild be extended again.

Finally we put it together and opened the bleeder while I tightened the spring.

 

I had a shim tool here but it had been broken and rewelded and it broke on us.

 

One thing that we can't understand....the # 2 and #3 exhaust gap are both over 50mm!!!!!

How couid they get that loose?

[ragtop69gs]

I have the tool but don't think you'd get it today with the snow flying, otherwise I'd meet you at the Sombra ferry.

[Flyinfool]

Anybody got a shim tool I can borrow or buy?

 

 

Mother (Scott) came up for a day to help me with my bike....got the clutch sorted out. We had to open the bleeder while we tightened the clutch springs. Every time we tried to put it together the push rod would end up too far out and the clutch would be frozen. Pushed in the rod but by the time we got it together it wouild be extended again.

Finally we put it together and opened the bleeder while I tightened the spring.

 

I had a shim tool here but it had been broken and rewelded and it broke on us.

 

One thing that we can't understand....the # 2 and #3 exhaust gap are both over 50mm!!!!!

How couid they get that loose?

 

I sure hope 50mm is a typo.........

I do not think that is possible without breaking the camshaft.

The valve clearance should get tighter with use, if it got bigger I would be worried about a damaged valve or crud holding the valve open. Can you do a compression check on those cylinders?

 

I believe that I have shipped a few valve tools into your general area. I don't remember who all got them. But I do have a few left.

Last one I sent north over the border took 10 days to get to SK.

[Flyinfool]

Anybody got a shim tool I can borrow or buy?

 

 

Mother (Scott) came up for a day to help me with my bike....got the clutch sorted out. We had to open the bleeder while we tightened the clutch springs. Every time we tried to put it together the push rod would end up too far out and the clutch would be frozen. Pushed in the rod but by the time we got it together it wouild be extended again.

Finally we put it together and opened the bleeder while I tightened the spring.

 

I had a shim tool here but it had been broken and rewelded and it broke on us.

 

One thing that we can't understand....the # 2 and #3 exhaust gap are both over 50mm!!!!!

How couid they get that loose?

 

I sure hope 50mm is a typo.........

I do not think that is possible without breaking the camshaft.

The valve clearance should get tighter with use, if it got bigger I would be worried about a damaged valve or crud holding the valve open. Can you do a compression check on those cylinders?

 

I believe that I have shipped a few valve tools into your general area. I don't remember who all got them. But I do have a few left.

Last one I sent north over the border took 10 days to get to SK.

[Trader]

I'll PM you with my address.

I need one for me and one to replace the one I broke that belonged to Marcarl.

It had already been broken and rewelded but I feel I should replace it anyway.

 

How much for 2 with shipping?

[mother]

i thought you were going to send the two pieces back to Carl the way it is. two pieces is better than one i thought. ah ah ah.

i know nothing

and yes we were getting crazy gaps on two of the cylinders exhaust valves only. front left and back right cylinder

good suggestion to check compression.

we did a check and there is shim in the bucket. once we get valve took then we can remove shim to see what thickness is in there.

the shim buckets are above the casting and when the cam lobe hits the shim, the bucket seemed to be pressed down and did return back up.

with such a gap, the exhaust valve will not open very much.

to be continued.

[Trader]

I looked at it closer today and it seems both valve shim buckets for the exhaust on #2 and#3 cyl are not returning to full height.

I can't check the compression until I can borrow a tester with a longer stem. Mine won't reach.

 

It makes me wonder if Flyinfool has the right idea. The exhaust valve stems or springs might be crudded up so much it caused them to bind because the valve tool compressed the valves more than the normal range and corrosion or crud jammed them

 

I use sea foam pretty regularly but I can't think of any other reason.

 

 

So....how do I get them loose without tearing the heads off?

 

google provided 2 possible answers...

 

1) stuff a firm cotton rope in the cyl. thru the spark plug hole and crank the engine by hand. I guess the rope is supposed to push the valve up

2) basically the same idea using grease....making a fitting and filling the cyl and forcing grease up the valve stem of the open valves and lubing it.

 

So...what do you think?

Edited April 4, 2016 by Trader

[Marcarl]

First off I would try tapping the buckets. There is a lot of tension, or should be a lot of tension on them to try to get them to return, so a little tapping might work. You may also try a little heat in that area. use a propane torch and carefully heat the entire area. You need to clean the oil out of the way first. Use a can of brake clean and then wait for a while for that to dissipate. This will also call for an oil change.

[Flyinfool]

Something else to check.

You mentioned that you tried a valve tool that was welded.

it is easy to get the weld thick enough so that it will hit the head as it comes around. If this happens it will dimple the soft aluminum of the head and push a burr into the bore for the bucket, that can interfere with valve movement.

 

There was a thread a while back where someone damaged the head and it prevented the valves from closing all the way. It had how he fixed it. I am trying to find it. no luck so far.

[Trader]

Well...I tried stuffing the cyl. with cotton rope to use the piston to press the valves back in place.

No joy.

I tried tapping and looked for any burrs that might be stopping it...still nothing.

 

so unless anybody has any ideas I think I have to pull the heads.

 

Good grief...this all started just chasing a fuel line leak...and I end up going deeper and deeper!

 

So I'm sure that will create a million more questions!

 

If I end up pulling the heads should I be doing anything else while I'm at it?

[bongobobny]

Yah!! Find yourself a pair of VMax heads and put them on!!

[Trader]

Yah!! Find yourself a pair of VMax heads and put them on!!

:mo money::mo money:

 

Would be be nice but just not in the budget...this is all costing too much already!

[flynvy5]

Flyinfool,

do you have anymore of the shim tools? I think i will be needing one soon.

[Flyinfool]

Just a few left.

[Trader]

Something else to check.

You mentioned that you tried a valve tool that was welded.

it is easy to get the weld thick enough so that it will hit the head as it comes around. If this happens it will dimple the soft aluminum of the head and push a burr into the bore for the bucket, that can interfere with valve movement.

 

once again Jeff is right on! Instead of pulling the heads I just lifted the exhaust cams. This is what I found....

[Flyinfool]

Once again??? Me? Right??? Lucky guess?

 

The good news is that you are not the first to do that, AND it is not to bad to fix.

 

FWI for others that may find this thread in the future.

The curves on the shim tool are fairly precise as the tool only clears the head by a few thousandths of an inch. Unfortunately this makes a weak spot in the tool and if you get the tool just a bit out of position and turn the engine, you will snap the tool in half quite easily. IF you try to weld it back together you must grind the outer profile back down to its original shape so that you do not do this to your head.

 

Take the spark plugs out so that you are not fighting compression and can feel what is happening while the engine is being rotated.

When you are turning the engine to rotate the tool, turn it slowly and stop the moment that you feel any resistance. Resistance means something is hitting something it shouldn't.

[Trader]

Just for curiosity I priced valve stem seals from the stealer.

$16 and change EACH!!!!

so that's not going to be done either.

Not that I need it....thank goodness!

 

I'm trying to get the valves loose without pulling the head.

Just as well...they said the head gaskets are back ordered anyway

[Flyinfool]

Do you have a Dremel tool? VERY GENITAL use of a Dremel will clean up your displaced aluminum. Lots of rags to keep the shavings out of the engine.

[mother]

aha, there is the culprit

[Trader]

been grinding the head where it was mashed over the buckets. so far no success in releasing the valves and buckets.

I can rotate the buckets by tapping them but they are by no means free....the buckets still won't return to normal height.

 

I tried grabbing the shim bucket with a pair of needle nose but I can't get it out no how!

 

I know they should because I tried one that was loose and it lifted out easily.

I'm going to have to replace the shim buckets because there is no way to avoid grinding them at the same time.

 

I zip tied the cam chain to the cam gears and removed the exhaust cam so I could work on the shim bucket area.

 

in case I have to remove the heads..

 

I found the cam chain link but it looks as if both lobes are a grooved split rivet that spreads to hold. Do I just squeeze the split rivet together to remove or do I have to grind it off?

 

I'm thinking probably not but I figured I'd ask to be sure......Are the heads and valves of a 1200 the same size as a 1300?

 

I'm Thinking of my parts bike and just swapping heads

[Flyinfool]

You will have to grind down below the top of the bucket, The damage is always deeper than what you can see. Not only is the top surface layer of aluminum mashed over the edge of the bucket, but for a small distance the bor that the bucket sits in is also pushed out of round and pinching the bucket into the bore from the side. It is OK if the grinder makes some small mark on the bucket. If you are grinding then you should see sparks anytime you are hitting the bucket, the aluminum head will not throw sparks.

 

Patience and persistence will pay off.

 

It is worth it to keep grinding until it frees up, worst case you have to replace with head off your parts bike. Best case you are able to save it and not do a head swap. the head is no good as is so you can not hurt it with more grinding.

[Trader]

In the parts list for valve lifters (or shim buckets as they have been called) there are 2 listings

see picture...both are part #9

26H21153-00-J0. LIfter, Valve (OS).......16. U.R.

26H21153-00-Y0. Lifter Valve ..............16. U.R.

 

 

What at does the (OS) mean and what does U.R. mean?

[Flyinfool]

Just a Wild ass guess.

O/S could be Over Size?

U.R. could be User Replaceable?

Purely a guess on my part.

Since all of the Shims are marked U.R. and the correct one to use must be determined by the mechanic.

[Trader]

you're right again!

Is it getting hard to be humble? lol

 

I found this on google...

Keys to symbols

U.R Use size (thickness) and/or number as required

couldn't find anything on "OS"

[Flyinfool]

I did say it was a WAG............