Taking offense to posts

[Freebird]

Due to a recent private message exchange that I had with a member, I just wanted to make a few comments about the nature of forums such as this.

 

I'm not going to call anybody out by name but some of you will know who I'm talking about just from reading the recent exchange. I'm sure that he will probably see this also so I want to make it very clear that I am not trying to single him out. It just so happens that it brought up an issue that has recurred many times over the years.

 

The thing is folks, this is a public forum. We have people here from all walks of life and many varying opinions, likes, dislikes, etc. If you are a person with somewhat thin skin, then a public forum is probably not the best place to seek advice on any subject. Whether it be cars, trucks, motorcycles or anything else, there will be some who agree with your opinion and others who don't. You can't take it personal or you are going to be very unhappy here or on pretty much any other forum.

 

The fact that somebody does not agree with your choice of rides, accessories, helmets, whatever does not mean that you are wrong. It simply means that their tastes and/or needs are different than yours. If you post a comment or opinion in a public forum, you are very likely going to get positive as well as negative responses. If you post something looking only to receive positive feedback and reinforcement for your opinion, you are usually going to be very disappointed. This does not make you wrong. It also doesn't make the person who responded wrong. It's just simple human nature of not all liking the same things. If we did, there would only be ONE brand and model of car, truck, motorcycle, etc. and life would be a little less exciting. It is our individuality that makes discussing these things fun for most of us.

 

The most recent of such discussions was in regards to Voyager trike kits as opposed to a conventional trike. Some feathers were ruffled when some members commented that they did not like the Voyager solution. So what? Why should it bother anybody that owns one that somebody else is not a fan? There are several good reasons that the Voyager is an excellent solution for some people. It may be that their budget does not support an expensive full trike conversion. It may be that they have more money than any of us but just can't justify the expense in their own minds for the end result of a full trike, it may be that the idea of being about to move between a trike and back to two wheels is an attractive feature for them. There are a number of reasons to go with the Voyager. There are others that just don't like the Voyager at all. It does handle differently, it has a different look that doesn't appeal to some people, and etc. Regardless of which camp you are in, if you are happy with what you have then why are you bothered by somebody having a different opinion?

 

It was also mentioned that anybody who doesn't own the item being discussed should keep their opinions to themselves. Sorry folks, I don't agree with that at all. I can give you a good example. I don't own a Can Am Spyder. I have never owned one and likely never will. I do have a valid opinion about them though. First of all, let me say that I love them and Eileen really wanted me to buy one. I almost did just that. Pioneer had a very slightly used one with the matching trailer that I was ready to pull the trigger on. Now I had test ridden one for maybe 5 miles a few weeks earlier and though I knew it would take some getting used to, I felt that it would be fine. When I called to close the deal on the used one, I was too late, they had just sold it. A few months later we had our International Rally at Pioneer and they were kind enough to let me ride one for the day on an extended group ride. I tell you, after about 100 miles on that thing, I was in severe pain. So much so that when we stopped for a bit to eat before heading back, I let Eileen drive and I just rode on the back. The problem was, it was NOT comfortable for riders with long legs. There was no way that I could get comfortable on that thing and my back was killing me. I discussed it with the good folks at Pioneer and they were honest and confirmed to me that many tall riders felt the same way. That is why they wanted me to take it for an extended ride before buying one. Now I have read that some changes have been made and it may be better now but based upon that experience, if somebody asks for opinions on it I would share this experience and recommend that if they have long legs, they take one out for a good test ride before pulling the trigger. So, I don't own one but certainly feel that I can offer some valuable input if somebody asks.

 

If you are working on a project or modifications, some are going to like it and some aren't. You will likely hear from both sides. If you don't want to hear opinions from both sides, you are probably going to get upset.

 

The bottom line is, don't be thin skinned. Expect that it you ask a question or post about something, you will likely get both positive and negative opinions. If that bothers you then discussion forums are probably not really something you should be a part of. I don't want anybody to leave but I am under no illusions that I can make everybody happy here. If you expect me to issue a policy that only complimentary and positive opinions are allowed on any give subject, then you are going to be very disappointed.

 

Come on folks. I'm currently riding a Harley Road Glide. Do you have any idea how many negative comments I've read here about Harleys? If I let it bother me, I would have to quit my own site. My own brother left this site years ago because after he bought a new Ultra Classic, he let what he called "Harley Bashing" get to him. I can assure you that many of the negative comments I've read have come from people who have never owned a Harley...some from people who have never even ridden one. I don't care. They still have a right to their opinions. As long as it doesn't get just hateful and nasty, so be it.

 

So loosen up people. Enjoy the mostly supportive responses that you get. Take the negative with a grain of salt. If you only want to hear the opinions of one or two people, send them a PM. Don't expect that if you post it publicly that only those one or two people are going to respond.

 

Whether we agree or disagree on a subject, we are still here to support each other and share the joy of riding and the friendships that are developed because of our shared passions. Family members often disagree. It doesn't mean we don't care about one another.

[ReinyRooster]

Well said Don. Just sad that it even needs to be said.

[GAWildKat]

Thank you for the reminder. Also, keep in mind folks being we are an online forum that inflection and intent are hard to convey in text. We don't have body language to give us clues to these things online. Never easy to take a step back and look at the big picture.

 

Tis better to have loved and lost than to have never loved.

[Wizard765]

Wow Don.. Well said and right on. I could not agree more.. Sometimes the negative feedback is as important as the positive feedback as it may get you to rethink something that you hadn't thought of.. Anyhow love this place because of the fun and the honesty and the folks that actually believe in helping their neighbors..

[Guest Jamsie]

couldn`t of said it better Don +10000

[Jrichard]

​I have a 94 Voyager!!-----does that count??????-------------------------WEATHER is WARM here in Wildwood, FL.------------------------75+--------whats your weather!--------------Naw --I really don't care to know---------------CARRY=on

[Trader]

Always expect the best intentions from people.

Then even what seems negative may not be all that bad.

We can express our opinions without getting personal.

 

And everyone is welcome to express their opinion.....as long as it is the same as mine!

[tufftom4]

Ya what he said.

[Sailor]

Well said. The only fault I can find is that it had to be said at all.

[bj66]

Well put Don. I like you own a HD Road Glide, and am used to all the "stuff" that goes along with it. Although owning a HD is a common thing, this is not a HD site, so you need to accept the fact that you are the minority here and what you ride goes against the norm. Disagreements and tons of friendly ribbing are the norm, and not just on certain threads. Its all over on here, but its all good. I keep coming back and like it here. I wish I got 1.00 $ for every time I read the word "Hardley" on here. That alone would almost make me a comfortable living.

 

There has been more than one time where I had my feathers ruffled over something posted on here, but before typing a reply I sit back and take a break for awhile to let myself cool down and it has served me well. I was always told growing up to be careful what you say because you can never take it back. Well you cant ever take back what you type either.

 

Last but not least, I love the friendly ribbing. Humor is a great thing, and is one of the reasons I come here. Everything is so good natured, even the criticism. I have enough of lets be brutally honest through out the day. If this site were like that I probably wouldn't be here. I went back and read through the Voyager thread, and I can see both sides of it. I can see how some Voyager guys could get angry (I've been there with the HD's), and I can see the other side too. I had nothing to add because I have no direct knowledge of them other than what they look like. But my reply surely would have some sort of humor in it whether it would of been in support of the Voyager or against it. Humor tends to disarm a situation more than it escalates it.

[eusa1]

Nice job as always Boss... you have a gift and I thank you for sharing it with all of us.

Mike

[Rmar]

Well said Boss, Thanks for what you do!

 

Rmar

[Zzyzx]

To bad this has to be said so everyone feels better.

 

If everything had to be exactly the same for everyone to be happy all of our butts would be the same size and fit the same bike seats.

Sorry if this offends anyone.

 

[Venture n Dixie]

Humor tends to disarm a situation more than it escalates it.

 

Except in my case. My wife seems to be allergic to mine.

[Patmac6075]

The fact that it needs to be said at all is pathetic, I'd say grow up but most of us are well past puberty......

I've found that the best angry responses are the ones that never get sent.

[Stache]

When you go out in public bring your thick skin because someone you meet is gonna take exception to the way you talk, the way you dress, what and how you ride or drive, the way you choose to live, something will irk somebody.

 

A site like this is an even broader selection of opinions, attitudes, preconceptions than your average neighborhood. The best difference of opinion is the one you can walk away from without causing personal offence. Say what you think/feel politely and accept that people will differ. The difference doesn't mean you're wrong from your point of view. It means someone sees it differently.

[5 Buck Kanuck]

due to a recent private message exchange that i had with a member, i just wanted to make a few comments about the nature of forums such as this.

 

I'm not going to call anybody out by name but some of you will know who i'm talking about just from reading the recent exchange. I'm sure that he will probably see this also so i want to make it very clear that i am not trying to single him out. It just so happens that it brought up an issue that has recurred many times over the years.

 

The thing is folks, this is a public forum. We have people here from all walks of life and many varying opinions, likes, dislikes, etc. If you are a person with somewhat thin skin, then a public forum is probably not the best place to seek advice on any subject. Whether it be cars, trucks, motorcycles or anything else, there will be some who agree with your opinion and others who don't. You can't take it personal or you are going to be very unhappy here or on pretty much any other forum.

 

The fact that somebody does not agree with your choice of rides, accessories, helmets, whatever does not mean that you are wrong. It simply means that their tastes and/or needs are different than yours. If you post a comment or opinion in a public forum, you are very likely going to get positive as well as negative responses. If you post something looking only to receive positive feedback and reinforcement for your opinion, you are usually going to be very disappointed. This does not make you wrong. It also doesn't make the person who responded wrong. It's just simple human nature of not all liking the same things. If we did, there would only be one brand and model of car, truck, motorcycle, etc. And life would be a little less exciting. It is our individuality that makes discussing these things fun for most of us.

 

The most recent of such discussions was in regards to voyager trike kits as opposed to a conventional trike. Some feathers were ruffled when some members commented that they did not like the voyager solution. So what? Why should it bother anybody that owns one that somebody else is not a fan? There are several good reasons that the voyager is an excellent solution for some people. It may be that their budget does not support an expensive full trike conversion. It may be that they have more money than any of us but just can't justify the expense in their own minds for the end result of a full trike, it may be that the idea of being about to move between a trike and back to two wheels is an attractive feature for them. There are a number of reasons to go with the voyager. There are others that just don't like the voyager at all. It does handle differently, it has a different look that doesn't appeal to some people, and etc. Regardless of which camp you are in, if you are happy with what you have then why are you bothered by somebody having a different opinion?

 

It was also mentioned that anybody who doesn't own the item being discussed should keep their opinions to themselves. Sorry folks, i don't agree with that at all. I can give you a good example. I don't own a can am spyder. I have never owned one and likely never will. I do have a valid opinion about them though. First of all, let me say that i love them and eileen really wanted me to buy one. I almost did just that. Pioneer had a very slightly used one with the matching trailer that i was ready to pull the trigger on. Now i had test ridden one for maybe 5 miles a few weeks earlier and though i knew it would take some getting used to, i felt that it would be fine. When i called to close the deal on the used one, i was too late, they had just sold it. A few months later we had our international rally at pioneer and they were kind enough to let me ride one for the day on an extended group ride. I tell you, after about 100 miles on that thing, i was in severe pain. So much so that when we stopped for a bit to eat before heading back, i let eileen drive and i just rode on the back. The problem was, it was not comfortable for riders with long legs. There was no way that i could get comfortable on that thing and my back was killing me. I discussed it with the good folks at pioneer and they were honest and confirmed to me that many tall riders felt the same way. That is why they wanted me to take it for an extended ride before buying one. Now i have read that some changes have been made and it may be better now but based upon that experience, if somebody asks for opinions on it i would share this experience and recommend that if they have long legs, they take one out for a good test ride before pulling the trigger. So, i don't own one but certainly feel that i can offer some valuable input if somebody asks.

 

If you are working on a project or modifications, some are going to like it and some aren't. You will likely hear from both sides. If you don't want to hear opinions from both sides, you are probably going to get upset.

 

The bottom line is, don't be thin skinned. Expect that it you ask a question or post about something, you will likely get both positive and negative opinions. If that bothers you then discussion forums are probably not really something you should be a part of. I don't want anybody to leave but i am under no illusions that i can make everybody happy here. If you expect me to issue a policy that only complimentary and positive opinions are allowed on any give subject, then you are going to be very disappointed.

 

Come on folks. I'm currently riding a harley road glide. Do you have any idea how many negative comments i've read here about harleys? If i let it bother me, i would have to quit my own site. My own brother left this site years ago because after he bought a new ultra classic, he let what he called "harley bashing" get to him. I can assure you that many of the negative comments i've read have come from people who have never owned a harley...some from people who have never even ridden one. I don't care. They still have a right to their opinions. As long as it doesn't get just hateful and nasty, so be it.

 

So loosen up people. Enjoy the mostly supportive responses that you get. Take the negative with a grain of salt. If you only want to hear the opinions of one or two people, send them a pm. Don't expect that if you post it publicly that only those one or two people are going to respond.

 

Whether we agree or disagree on a subject, we are still here to support each other and share the joy of riding and the friendships that are developed because of our shared passions. Family members often disagree. It doesn't mean we don't care about one another.

who cares what you ride its only that you do ride

[Demc2h]

I agree, And again would like to thank all of you who have helped me restore my 1983. This site has been so helpful. I am also a Harley Owner and even have an old Honda CB 550. Its all about the wind in the face not the name plate!

[SilvrT]

Nobody bashes Victory ... I'm feeling left out!!

[Yammer Dan]

ME?? Bash a Hardley?? Oh I see where this is going. You are hoping I put a Voyager on "Silver" so he cain't throw me again. Still worried about your "baby" OK OK I'm going back to my corner...tomorrow...maybe!! The truth here Don. WE have a lot of fun but most of it is just fun. There is so much great info that can be had!! WE have all kinds. There are guys here that couldn't open a tool box. But can tell you how to do it and then we have some Great wrenches. I like to think I fit in the middle somewhere. If you let that get in the way of the Best site on the web or whatever take your candy ass back to the house!! Yeah I know. Shut Up!!

Edited February 19, 2016 by Yammer Dan

[eusa1]

Nobody bashes Victory ... I'm feeling left out!!

 

Your victory alone sux !! I'm a problem solver! your welcome!!

[cowpuc]

Thank you for the reminder. Also, keep in mind folks being we are an online forum that inflection and intent are hard to convey in text. We don't have body language to give us clues to these things online. Never easy to take a step back and look at the big picture.

 

Tis better to have loved and lost than to have never loved.

 

Good thread Don, I think this thread should be "pinned" (my opinion ) so people who are not members here can read this stuff and get a feel for the deeper side of what VR is all about. Might also be handy for us regulars to have instant access to for a quick re-read when it becomes our turn to feel hurt by comments that sting a little because sooner or later, someone will say something that will challenge the thickness of our own skin (still thinking suffering from CABIN FEVER can easily produce thin skinenitus and make us jittery).

 

Thanks Kat,, you took the words right out of my mouth - it is my opinion that there is some very deep wisdom in your statement sister.. You may not know this but I am one who, like a number of other folks around here, truly does enjoy and even a little bit of . Admittedly, I am even one of those lop eared varmints who have harrassed Freebird about his Harley, not as much as much as YammerDan though:stirthepot:.

Spring boarding off that and in an effort to make this short winded, last year I was with another member and he noticed me admiring a gorgeous Ultra Limited. While I was over that Harley and making comments to Tippy about buying another salvaged Harley (don't wanna put all my eggs in one basket) to restore and tour on, my buddy said "I thought you really disliked Harleys", to which I replied "what ever gave you that idea:confused24:". He reminded me of all the teasing I had done on the site about HD.

IMHO, the greater part of who we are as a person can never be realized by the little bit of or the opinion's we share on the internet - it's just to easy to misread intent and to misjudge a person's real quality thru reading comments on an open forum. To much of the fine art of communicating is missed with misjudgement usually the result when body language is not part of communicating..

[BlueSky]

Often times, someone gets a different meaning from a post than what the poster meant. We should all assume that nobody is intentionally trying to insult us, which I do believe is true.

 

The good humored ragging of each other is one thing that makes this site so great!

[bj66]

A terrible thought just came into my head. As much attention as I paid in high school English class, and with the grades I got, I bet every one of my posts have been misunderstood........If the grammar police ever catch me, they will throw away the key........

[Skid]

I don't know if people now a days think everyone should be politically correct or what, but good grief folks don't get your panties in a wad because someone disagreed with you or didn't prefer your style. Eck bashed me the other day saying my Second Gen couldn't keep up. If I got mad every time that happened I would not be here. And Yammer was just as bad until he bought a Second Gen. Lets just "Make America Great Again" and get along...

 

Oh yeah, well said Don.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Skid