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Oh crap!!!!!

Trader

By Trader
in Watering Hole

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Trader

Trader

Posted
Posted

I recently posted how our titles of threads should be specific....this one is!

I removedthe valve covers....first thing on the list? Make sure oil caps are in place. NOPE!

One is missing. I looked EVERYWHERE!

If it fell down beside the cam chain then it went right down...not wedged anywhere I can see.

 

I literally spent over an hour looking in every nook and cranny on the bike, on the floor, on top of the collector, top of shock....EVERYWHERE!!

so like I said...OH CRAP

 

my dumb question of the day....can I leave it? If it did fall into the guts will it just get ground up and end up in the filter?

I can see a concern of blocking any oil ports....but I don't know what to do!

 

HELP!!!!!!!

 

2nd question.....save me tearing into my parts bike engine.....does anyone have one open where they can send me one?

cowpuc

cowpuc

Posted
Posted

Are you sure it went internal? Look the area over really well and see if you can figure out what the chances of it falling inwardly are as apposed to having just fallin on the bike somewhere. If it does look possible that it could have fallen on the outside of the motor I would take a real bright pen light and use it in a dimly lit garage (the darker the area the better) to keep my focus tight into one small area at a time. Start at the top and work downward.

If it did drop internal = I hate when that happens Trader, probably not gonna much care for my advice.. If it is in the motor it's not a good plan to just leave it, can cause a LOT of issues.. Never had the top end of one of these V-4's apart so I am not even sure what oil cap your talking of.. Are the oil caps steel or aluminum? If steel, it might not be a bad idea to try taking a magnet on a coat hanger and see if you can fish it out that way. I have one of those extendable antenna looking things with a magnet in the end of it (might try Harbor Freight if your gonna go looking for one) that is pretty useful for doing it BUT, I have also used a coat hanger with a small piece of an "earth" magnet with actually better success because of the extreme power of the earth mag and tight areas it can weasel into.. If you decide to use the coat hanger routine, I suggest that you put the magnet on the end of the coat hanger and tightly make a wrap of electrical tape over the magnet and around the hanger though - do this so you dont end up with the magnet also stuck inside the motor along with the oil cap. Another thing you might wanna try is draining the oil out of er and seeing if the piece might come out in the oil.

Probably sounds nuts but if the motor were out, I would even suggest turning the engine upside down and bouncing it on the bench a little.. You really dont wanna leave the cap floating around inside the engine..

Great White

Great White

Posted
Posted

Nope.

 

You gotta find it if it went down the cam chain tunnel.

 

It can get caught between the chain guide and the chain and cause all kinds of havoc.

 

Or break up and block oil passages.

 

In my line of work it's called "FOD". FOD can bring a plane down.

 

There's no telling what that little piece of plastic/rubber could do.

 

Maybe nothing, maybe destroy the valve train or starve the crank mains of oil. Might even migrate into the transmission or into the clutch/generator cases if it's broken up enough. it can have a whole bunch of fun in the too....

 

Drop the oil pan an it should either be in the pan or visible somewhere in the case.

 

Good news is there's not much to stop it from just dropping down into the oil pan if it did go down the chain tunnel.

 

Or, you've been riding it like this obviously. You can take your chances and not go after it.

 

Your choice.

 

I'd be pulling the pan at least......

Flyinfool

Flyinfool

Posted
Posted

This would be a good excuse to get an inspection camera from Harbor freight.

 

My guess is that since the valve cover was pulled away from the the cam chain that the plug would not have gone down the cam chain hole.

 

Good excuse to go toy shopping at HF.

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-inspection-camera-62359.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/high-resolution-digital-inspection-camera-with-recorder-61838.html

eagleeye

eagleeye

Posted
Posted

I had this thought: Take one of the other caps off and look very closely, maybe even with magnification and see what marks the cap made on the ID of the aluminum. Then look at the one that is missing and see if you see the same marks. It may have been gone for some time. Not that that will help, but at least you will know something. For what it is worth.

BTW, good title!

MiCarl

MiCarl

Posted
Posted

It's not stuck to the cover is it?

 

You could try draining the oil and see if it comes out or at least gets hung up in the hole.

 

I'm guessing you never saw it. It might have got lost years ago............

Trader

Trader

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I'm guessing you never saw it. It might have got lost years ago............

 

That's what I'm starting to believe. Hard to believe the cover would pull the cap off...it would be difficult to hook onto the smooth dome of the cap.

Even if it did....The action of pulling off the cover would pull the cap OUTBOUND...not towards the center cam chain channel.

 

PLUS...the plug looks big enough that even if it fell into that channel, it should have been hung up on the chain or lower gear?????

 

But I though without the plug the bike would not have proper oil pressure. So how would it survive so long???

cowpuc

cowpuc

Posted
Posted
You can see them at 9&3 o'clock to hex bolt

9:o'clock is gone

Pretty sure they are plastic or rubber

 

Top picture, look carefully at the header manifold mount bolts, bottom bolt has something black laying right in front of it,,, could it be????

Freebird

Freebird

Posted
Posted

I agree with the Pucster. Sure looks like that could be it. :) If it is, that is a GREAT catch Puc...I would have never seen that. Had to look very carefully even after you pointed it out.

cowpuc

cowpuc

Posted
Posted
Sorry Pucster

No joy in Traderville

you were right...something black...the side cover rubber bungee still hanging on the clip

 

WELLLLLLLL,,, RATSSS,, worth a shot brother!! I REALLY like Flyinfools suggestion about the Harbor Freight inspection camera!! Perfect time to make an addition to the Man Cave tools if nothin else.. If you do that it might not be a bad idea to check the inspection cable end of the apparatus - get the smallest one you can find.. Be wayyy cool if you could get one with a small enough end that it would go into a spark plug hole - remember our scoots have smaller plugs (thinking 12mm).. Wish I had one I would loan it to you..

cowpuc

cowpuc

Posted
Posted

GOOD THOUGHT TRADER!! Highly doubt Auto Zone would have one for loan/rent.. Maybe try tool rental place.. Also might check a pawn shop or two,, those places have some pretty interesting stuff sometimes..

MiCarl

MiCarl

Posted
Posted

 

But I though without the plug the bike would not have proper oil pressure. So how would it survive so long???

 

I doubt it's for oil pressure. If it needed to hold oil pressure it would be threaded and have a sealing washer on it. Besides, why put the hole in the cap to just turn around and plug it? I suspect the hole is made for the plug - not vice-versa. I wouldn't be surprised if it's job is to damp vibration by resting against the cover.

 

Frankly, I've never noticed them. Fortunately I've got a 2nd gen on my lift with the covers off for valve lash. I've got to go into the shop tomorrow - I'll give them a close look.

saddlebum

saddlebum

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hey Steve I may have a couple spare ones. I will need to check. If I do I will PM you for your address and mail it out to you.

 

I had one fall out when I replaced the valve cover gasket. If your not careful the edge of the cover catches it and knocks it out. I wasn't even aware of it until about 5 or 6 years later while doing the the clutch I found it laying in the clutch housing. The just sit in place and there are knobs on the valve cover that holds it down. With it out you do risk lowering oil pressure or equal oil distribution across the cam.

Edited by saddlebum
Trader

Trader

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I doubt it's for oil pressure. If it needed to hold oil pressure it would be threaded and have a sealing washer on it. .

 

Check out this video....

at 3.05
videoarizona

videoarizona

Posted
Posted

Steve, I bought one of those endoscopes this past year specifically cause my 89 has a habit of stealing nuts, washers, bushings and anything else it can get it's grubby little wheels on.

 

The camera has helped me find all sorts of stuff...some of which I'm sure the PO lost years back! BTW, there are two really nice hidey hole areas on a 1st Gen that catches little things. One is on top of the exhaust collector and the second is in behind the cylinders near the rear shock. Both of those areas are now accessable to me with my little camera! That is where I would look first. Then drain the oil and look up into the engine from the pan (with the little camera you are going to order!) I bet you will find it.

 

The third place I've found lost goodies from the 89 is all the way across the garage floor. How the little thingies get that far is a mystery to me...but they do travel nicely!

 

Good luck!

saddlebum

saddlebum

Posted
Posted

Hopefully I will find a spare in my garage and if I do I would not worry about the missing one it will either lie in the bottom somewhere or just get ground up. I doubt leaving it in there would do any damage it sure never hurt mine and as i said it was there for 5 or 6 years. More important to get one back in the cam support.

MiCarl

MiCarl

Posted
Posted
Check out this video....
at 3.05

 

Damn! Wrong again.

 

Hopefully I will find a spare in my garage and if I do I would not worry about the missing one it will either lie in the bottom somewhere or just get ground up. I doubt leaving it in there would do any damage it sure never hurt mine and as i said it was there for 5 or 6 years. More important to get one back in the cam support.

 

Most likely it'd end up either laying somewhere in the bottom like yours or get caught by the oil pickup screen. Not sure how much stuff you can collect on the oil pickup without reducing the oil flow.

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