Opinions on the future of the Internal Conbustion Engine

[Chaharly]

Hey guys, all winter long I've been troubled by this question. How long are they going to keep producing fuel for, and how long is the govt gonna let us keep riding our gas powered bikes. I've never been a guy to go brand new. I look at it like getting a pet, why get a new puppy, when there are plenty of dogs that are still in their youth that have been neglected and pushed away into the shack for their whole lives. Its almost inhumane to get the puppy when you could save a dogs life for much cheaper. I guess what I'm saying is, if they go to strictly hydrogen fuel cell, electric, solar powered, or whatever bikes that don't make the noises like ours do, we all know the price range is going to be around the 30k range at least for the first few years. This scares me because I don't think that, for the longevity of my life, I wont be blessed with working and riding the familiar machines we've all grown up with. I've always bought older, cheaper vehicles that I know are reliable that require a little bit of work.

 

But if they one day decide nope, you have to get an electric bike you cant keep riding that gas guzzler anymore. What am I to do. Save up the 30k for a new electric bike. Or should I invest in a horse.

 

Really though, how long can we keep riding our gas powered bikes?

[Flyinfool]

Gas/diesel will still be around for the rest of my lifetime.

There is no other technology in existence that can compete.

The electrics and other technologies that are now available to not have the needed range, performance, or refuelability, or reliability of gas/diesel.

 

Any new tech that does make it to mainstream will take a long time to replace the old.

 

I would not waste time worrying about something that has not yet been invented.

[Chaharly]

Gas/diesel will still be around for the rest of my lifetime.

There is no other technology in existence that can compete.

The electrics and other technologies that are now available to not have the needed range, performance, or refuelability, or reliability of gas/diesel.

 

Any new tech that does make it to mainstream will take a long time to replace the old.

 

I would not waste time worrying about something that has not yet been invented.

 

 

Ahh good point flyinfool. This was part of my wondering too, is our infrastructure is pretty much set up for ICE's. and also with the new biofuels they come up with, they may be milking the ICE for as long as I'm alive yet too.

 

I DONT LIKE CHANGE!!!

[cowpuc]

I TOTALLY agree with Fool here BUT I do get what your talking about Cha. Case in point, Tip and I bumped into a person by the name of Terry Hershner a couple years ago. Terry was just outside of Moab at one of the few gas stations we found in the area. He was on an Iron Butt headed to some kind of an Electric Motorcycle Meet in Ohio. The fuel at this station was over 5 bucks a gallon giving us a total cost of fuel of over 20 bucks just for that tank. Terry's "recharge" at the station was free (about 1/2 hour to recharge) and good for about the same mileage as Tweeks on a "refuel" running 75/80 mph. His bike also has a top speed of 140 mph - of course, just like a dino fuel scoot - the harder ya push it the more fuel it takes.

Some folks are aware that Tweeks, Tip and I LOVE coasting, our record non stop coast is a 29 minute/36 mile downhill into King's Canyon. After getting caught carefully examining Terry's "Zero", Terry asked about our bike and I explained some of our journey's and told him about our love for coasting. In a strange way, we connected because of the quietness of Electric Bikes and the same being in coasting.

We were amazed at both Terry and his motorcycle. One of the reasons why came about when he pointed out to me how quickly his bike recharges and explained how easy it was to find places to do so - actually far more places to recharge (any where with a 110V outlet) and how most places "charge" free of the other kind of charging. Another point of interest came about when I mentioned how many times we had slipped past people while coasting without them even realizing we were there, I LOVE doing that BUT it can have a not so good side = if a driver doesnt know your there bad things can happen. I actually asked Terry (who is from California so has ridden many very busy highways) about this to which he replied "its a problem whenever I am in traffic - gotta ride those sections of ick-spressway very carefully".. I mentioned maybe putting a loud speaker system on board with the recording of a straight piped Harley being played on it.. He said he had actually considered doing exactly that!!

Terry and Craig Vetter (remember Vetter Fairings of yesteryear? thats the guy) are very good friends. Craig actually designed the Streamliner kit for Terry's bike!!

I was fascinated by all this and still am!! It has two wheels, handlebars, is completely capable of running some awesome speeds, cost almost nothing to operate PLUS - if I were riding one of these things I could honestly say my motorcycle really has a MOTOR and would not be misconstruing an engine with a "motor" all the time:big-grin-emoticon:

 

Here is a REALLY great article about the man and his machine - IRON BUTTIN!!http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094483_first-iron-butt-award-for-electric-motorcycle-terry-hershner

 

 

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094483_first-iron-butt-award-for-electric-motorcycle-terry-hershner

 

Edited January 12, 2016 by cowpuc

[Chaharly]

I do remember you showing us this in one of your earlier posts, and my mind actually wandered to this as well. Problem is if it broke down could we fix it? That yamabond #5 probably isn't so great with advanced electrical circuitry

[Chaharly]

and you mean to tell me that the proper term "enginecycle" doesn't ring a bell?

[BlueSky]

I flipped the tv to Jay Leno's Garage one day and he was driving his 1919 electric car. He said it had 80 to 100 miles range on one charge. But, it would only go 20mph. So, electric cars have been around for a while. They still don't have the range of a gasoline powered car. They will become more prevalent I'm sure but I'm not worried about it. The internal combustion engine has been refined a bunch over the years and they are still getting better. Smaller direct injected turbo engines seem to be the way at the moment.

[MiCarl]

Well, electric is the only technology on the horizon. For it to work there are a bunch of things that need to happen:

 

+ Large storage capacity

+ Quick recharge

+ Ubiquitous recharge stations

+ Infrastructure to generate and deliver electricity to the retail location.

 

The hydrocarbon production and distribution system we have was developed over 100+ years. It'll be a VERY long time before electricity replaces it.

 

Your bigger concern should be that your betters mandate a switch before its economically feasible. In that case, buying gasoline for the scoot will probably be low on your list of problems.

[Larry1963]

I was reading cycle world, and Polaris, the folks that make a bunch of off road stuff, Victory and Indian motorcycle company. They bought a company that was working on an electric bikes. In 2015 and a new improved model in 2016, they are offering a motorcycle called the Empulse TT here is the web site. http://www.victorymotorcycles.com/en-us/electric/empulse-tt-titanium-silver-havasu-red

 

As for how long will gas be around, for most of us over 30 and defiantly over 50 for the rest of our life. There will be enough rich people driving classics to keep the fuel companies going. plus the oil companies are to deep into the politicians pockets to get out of business to soon. Plus we all know now there is enough oil to fuel us and the world for the next 300 years, a fuel shortage is only a lie. Finally the average American cannot afford the new technology cars and bikes that are electric powered. So electric cars will have to be faded in.

 

What I think will happen, in the deep low voice, from the prophet Larry's desk. As the younger generation comes up, they are more fascinated with technology, more sensitive to pollution and emissions than we are. The next generation there are more "bunny huggers" They are willing to buy in and try new technology and as they start to buy cars and bikes the electric will appeal to them. As technology with batteries improves along with charging systems us dinosaurs will fade into the sunset, and turn into fossil fuel that nobody will be using. Plus once the demand gets bigger for new fuel technology and there is money to be made the fuel companies will be more than happy to switch over.

 

When will all this happen, I say in the next 20-30 years. Some of it will happen depending on who we put in office from the president to the representatives, how much do they buy into global warming and the need to cut emissions.

 

Well that is my 3.58 cents worth.

 

Larry

[Chaharly]

Well you guys made me feel a little more comfortable about riding. I don't get concerned about much, but my bike is one of the few, special things that I really get passionate about, and I'd hate to see it taken away by politics!

[Sailor]

Electric cars use batteries, lots and lots of expensive batteries which have to be changed every 5-7 years. Most plastics are petroleum based. If they run out of oil there are a lot more things to worry about than just cars, bikes, boats and airplanes. I think the internal combustion engine will keep getting smaller and relatively more powerful and there will be alternate fuels available. Unless it happens in the next ten years I am not worried.

[videoarizona]

Not in my lifetime or my children's lifetime or their children's lifetime will fossil fuels go away.

They can't. The current infrastructure is not designed for anything else.

 

To eliminate fossil fuels, you must first have an infrastructure in place for whatever will be the replacement.

To do that, you must commit billions of dollars in research and design. Generation/Refinement/Transportation/Distribution/Marketing/Sales/Repair/ and the list goes on...all must be developed for THE fossil fuel replacement.

 

Only one small problem: No one can agree on what that replacement will be??

 

Did I mention "Not in my lifetime"?

 

(now where's that darn coffee cup...)

[Larry1963]

I ran across this story and made me think of the original question with this thread about how long before the gas engine is gone. "Harley-Davidson Tries to Rejuvenate Motorcycle Sales

 

Harley finds it hard to get past macho act that worked with boomer men" This article was in the Wall Street Journal By

James R. Hagerty

Updated Jan. 12, 2016 1:23 p.m. ET

 

HD is struggling because Macho guy that was buying their product are dying off. That macho guy is you and me. The younger generation is not really interested in loud, big and slow. The disposable income for those under 50 years of age is also gone. It maybe gone because they have houses they can barely afford, along with fancy foreign made cars, and maintaining a life style that they really cannot afford. But to put 30-50K on a toy they do not have it. It maybe because regardless what our president says, our economy is not that strong and most are worried about their job. Even those that have a good paycheck coming in, are worried about loosing their job. I know in the State of the Union address our president said that there were more jobs. But most of the jobs are not high dollar paying jobs, or jobs without benefits. Funny federal law made it mandatory for everyone to have health care, yet employers are cutting hours so they do not have to pay health care, leaving the average guy to buy it from a government portal for a high price or high deductible. Rev Franklin Graham said it best, "The American dream that you and I grew up with is dead!"

 

Plus, the new generation is not interested in a bike that every 50K miles you have to have some kind of maintenance done to it. They are looking for the economy bike that will not break the bank. I bike that is fast and limber, mainly in town driving, good mileage, and maintenance free, and throw away. Where Victory is a little over HD, their bikes have a more modern look, but with keeping the loud and rawness of an American bike, plus their engines, even if air cooled are good for 100K+ miles. But even Victory is having a hard time.

 

Remember when we were kids, we had old cars, sneaking dad's beer out and getting together and working on them. Seemed everyone where I grew up had a POS, even the rich kids. Almost everyone was a car mechanic. Usually any kid over 16 could change points or clean spark plugs on the side of the highway. Those days are gone, most do not even know how to change a tire. Most young people today do not even own a tool box with the basic tools in it.

 

I do a lot with the youth of today, this is a microwave, throw away generation. If they do not get it their way in Nano-seconds they do not want it. Everything has to be instant at their fingertips and be able to be made to their liking or they do not want it. Most are looking for the latest and newest thing on the market. What kept HD alive is the older guy, that worked hard, raised his kids, sent them to college, saved his money and now he is an empty nester with life still in his bones and so he at 60+ years old went and bought his dream, a HD, which has not really changed looks over the years. Well those guys are either getting to old to ride or are dying off. It seemed like the guys I grew up with our every dream was to drive a fire truck and own a HD motorcycle. Well I have driven a fire truck but I have yet to own a HD motorcycle.

 

When I was looking to replace my 01 Victory I wanted a HD and almost bought a 07 HD Limited addition Road King Ultra Glide with 6,500 miles on it. The guy wanted 12,500 for it, good deal, I was going to have to borrow half of the money, but in the same town, I ran across my 07 RSV, all the options the Road King had, but for 6K and a bike that is more comfortable, and will last a lot long with less maintenance or daily cost.

 

So it wont be the gas companies that run out of fuel, it will be the customer that runs them out of town.

 

Just my .02 cents plus a little more worth

 

Larry

Edited January 15, 2016 by Larry1963