Working on a friend's roadstar. Keeps cutting off while riding. Any ideas

[Beau-Kat]

OK. Here's the story.

 

Owner is a friend of mine.

I've known the owner and this bike over 10 years.

Owner rode this bike daily and literally everywhere.

He says bike has about 150-170 thousand miles on it.

Good compression.

A few years ago, he bought a (2005? the blue one) RSV and reported that this 2001 Roadstar sat up maybe the last 2 or so years.

Key switch operation is sticky and must be jiggled a lot to turn. Just like some of our RSVs.

Boot between carb and breather had not been sealing (3/16' gap in front lip of boot at carb) and let a lot of dust, crap etc. inside the carb throat.

Installed a new boot and air filter.

Thoroughly cleaned a lot of rust out of tank.

Cleaned out all fuel lines.

New aftermarket fuel pump and fuel pump filter.

Cleaned petcock and installed new kit for that.

Totally cleaned everything, every port, passage, jet etc. inside the carb. But inside of carb wasn't really gummed up.

Float level and operation is fine.

Had to free up the stuck slide.

Inspected carb diaphragm. ok.

Filled and drained the tank several times.

Nothing but clear gas comes out now. Good flow.

 

So, bike has nearly a full tank.

Bike starts and idles fine.

Ride it down the road with good acceleration.

After anywhere from 10 to 25 miles, the bikes sputters and shuts down.

Doesn't matter if petcock is "on" or on reserve.

Sometimes the fuel gauge shows low. Fuel light is on.

Key off then on.

Gauges back to normal.

Fuel pump operates as normal.

Restarts.

Runs maybe 1/2 mile with good acceleration, sputters and shuts down again. Real PIA.

Note: I live in a hilly area.

So, sometimes, I don't switch off the key if this happens going down a hill.

Nearing the bottom of the hill with a little speed yet, I just pop the clutch and it fires off again.

I've drained the tank and carb bowel and associated fuel lines several times, and removed the fuel pump filter and inspected flow there also.

Believe the fuel system is good.

 

So, anybody have any experience with this or heard of this happening on the Roadstars?

Working on this bike as a favor and I wanna get this bike out of my garage. But also really want to make sure it is dependable.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Beau-Kat

[djh3]

Boy I hate shotgunning a problem like this. There is just so many ways to go. Ignition switch its self could be bad. If has had heavy keys on it over the years it could have the contacts worn out, making minimal contact and when get hot-poof quit. Recycle switch and its all good again for awhile. Could be coil dying. Get hot, resistance goes up and no more sparky sparky. OHM checking is maybe 50/50 at best. Could check fine and the coil is bad in actuality. Pick up coil, same kind of deal. Loose wire on coil or ignition switch. See if you can find a wire diagram for the ignition. Maybe make a by pass for the entire switch and see if that fixs it. Probably can just use a toggle switch for a couple bucks.

Hey a thought just popped in my head. Had a friend many years back his would run for oh 30 min or so then slowly loose power and cough out. We stumbled upon the cause and about laughed ourself to death. Fuel line got soft and would collapse. Guess as it got warm under the tank area, line was soft and deteriorated and would suck shut.

[Beau-Kat]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The owner said that he does have a switch bypass kit that he has yet to install. But I can't remember if he said it was for his RSV or the Roadstar.

I thought of the tank possibly having venting problems, but that wasn't it.

And I have already replaced all the fuel lines.

I guess I'm going after electrical connections next.

Even if I find something dumb that was right under my nose, that I could have kicked myself for overlooking, I'm still gonna be happy to get some resolution to this mess.

Flustered!

[cowpuc]

See ya got tank vent checked off already cause that was the first thing I was mention,, lets see here..

 

Beau, if I were there I would grab a new plug, ride the scoot till it stalls and wont start -leave the key ON - unplug a plug terminal and plug in the new plug - ground it and hit the starter to see what cha got spark wise. If spark checks good I would repeat the same process, run till it dies - turn fuel petcock off as soon as it dies, open carb drain and see if the bowl has fuel in it. If it does, remove air filter, take a squirt bottle of fuel, run till it dies and squirt a little fuel into the carb throat and see if it fires. You said you did a compression check already, never worked on a Roadstar (I am assuming we are talking about a "Roadie" = 1700cc pushrod motor?). Gonna go out on a limb and say if it is a pushrod motor it probably has hydraulic lifters. If it has hydraulic lifters - perhaps the lifters are collapsing under usage so the valves arent opening correctly - seems kind of far shot but I suppose its possible.. Must say though, in the end, it would not surprise me to find that your problem is fuel related and related right back to that rusty tank.

 

I have done many restores thru the years and lots of rusty tank jobs in my bike restoring and have never had any kind of luck with just cleaning the tank and then adding in line filters with hopes of removing remaining rust - just never worked for me. That nasty fine stuff would always find its way thru even the best of filters and plug up jets. Always seemed like I ended up in similar shoes to what you are going thru and then recleaning carbs and all that - got tired of chasing my tail and started coating everything that came to me rusted. My last several years of business I used a product called "Red Kote" for relining tanks and found it to do a great job (I still know of several bikes running around with tanks I sealed 20 years ago that are doing great) - far superior to anything I had ever used before.

I KNOW how ya feel brother - been there many times.. Stick with it, you will get it figured out!!!

 

All the best

Puc

[cowpuc]

Oh,, by the way,, give your buddy a good pat on the back and from me will ya!! 170k on a Roadie ain't nothing to scoff at!!

[Marcarl]

It seems to me that your problem is not engine heat related, or it wouldn't start so quickly after it shuts down. It could be a plugged fuel line at the tank filter, but that seems a far stretch seeing as it takes nothing done to restart.

I would do the fuel on the road test, squirting fuel into carbs immediately when it craps out. You might also check the fuses to see if anything there could be causing a break in power, loose fuse, loose wire end, loose fuse holder, corroded wire, bad fuse.

How many coils does this thing have? could be a loose wire at the coil if there is only one.

And yes, I would fix the ignition switch, and check the integrity of the brake light switch, side stand switch, clutch switch, and while you're at it, the kill switch. A combination of malfunction on any switch can cause problems down the line.

[Beau-Kat]

Oh,, by the way,, give your buddy a good pat on the back and from me will ya!! 170k on a Roadie ain't nothing to scoff at!!

 

This is the second Roadstar I've seen with that many miles.

My other friend had a 1999 that he pulled two trailers with. We use to call it the wagon train.

He pulled a "tag" trailer behind the bike.

This trailer was really just a short tongue, an axle, and two wheels with a place for a 48 qt. cooler and two 2.5 gal gas cans (on a rack above the cooler) mounted directly over the axle. He then connected his bunkhouse behind that.

This arrangement kept the tongue weight on his bike's trailer hitch low. He and his wife traveled all over the U.S. with that thing.

He did break his frame at least once, maybe twice.

He ended up putting 168,000 on that bike before he passed away.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Beau-Kat
corrected 5.5 gal gas tanks to 2.5 gal

[Beau-Kat]

It seems to me that your problem is not engine heat related, or it wouldn't start so quickly after it shuts down. It could be a plugged fuel line at the tank filter, but that seems a far stretch seeing as it takes nothing done to restart.

I would do the fuel on the road test, squirting fuel into carbs immediately when it craps out. You might also check the fuses to see if anything there could be causing a break in power, loose fuse, loose wire end, loose fuse holder, corroded wire, bad fuse.

How many coils does this thing have? could be a loose wire at the coil if there is only one.

And yes, I would fix the ignition switch, and check the integrity of the brake light switch, side stand switch, clutch switch, and while you're at it, the kill switch. A combination of malfunction on any switch can cause problems down the line.

 

Good points to consider.

This engine has one coil for each cylinder. It also has two plugs for each cylinder. Gotta take the take the tank off to get to the inner plugs.

[billmac]

Did you check the fuel filter. if backward would /could cause this also if the filter is wrong size won't let enough fuel thru at speed.

[Beau-Kat]

See ya got tank vent checked off already cause that was the first thing I was mention,, lets see here..

 

Beau, if I were there I would grab a new plug, ride the scoot till it stalls and wont start -leave the key ON - unplug a plug terminal and plug in the new plug - ground it and hit the starter to see what cha got spark wise. If spark checks good I would repeat the same process, run till it dies - turn fuel petcock off as soon as it dies, open carb drain and see if the bowl has fuel in it. If it does, remove air filter, take a squirt bottle of fuel, run till it dies and squirt a little fuel into the carb throat and see if it fires. You said you did a compression check already, never worked on a Roadstar (I am assuming we are talking about a "Roadie" = 1700cc pushrod motor?). Gonna go out on a limb and say if it is a pushrod motor it probably has hydraulic lifters. If it has hydraulic lifters - perhaps the lifters are collapsing under usage so the valves arent opening correctly - seems kind of far shot but I suppose its possible.. Must say though, in the end, it would not surprise me to find that your problem is fuel related and related right back to that rusty tank.

 

I have done many restores thru the years and lots of rusty tank jobs in my bike restoring and have never had any kind of luck with just cleaning the tank and then adding in line filters with hopes of removing remaining rust - just never worked for me. That nasty fine stuff would always find its way thru even the best of filters and plug up jets. Always seemed like I ended up in similar shoes to what you are going thru and then recleaning carbs and all that - got tired of chasing my tail and started coating everything that came to me rusted. My last several years of business I used a product called "Red Kote" for relining tanks and found it to do a great job (I still know of several bikes running around with tanks I sealed 20 years ago that are doing great) - far superior to anything I had ever used before.

I KNOW how ya feel brother - been there many times.. Stick with it, you will get it figured out!!!

 

All the best

Puc

 

It's a 1600 pushrod. Dang tough engine.

 

This bike is stock with Vance & Hines Longshots.

Another note: The V&H long shots were damaged. The owner sawed them off about even with the rear end of the transmission. He then welded some large washers in the tips of the pipes to give it some backpressure. Idles and accelerates very well like this.

Hard to run it without the breather. It won't really take gas without the breather (also stock) in place.

 

I've cleaned many tanks, bike, boat, lawnmower, my 1953 Desoto, with good results. But the only tank I ever coated was on my 1981 XJ650 Maxim back about 1984. Worked well for me then.

I've removed this petcock a few times. Each time, both of the pickup stack filters were very clean.

My concern is the fuel gauge reading weird sometimes when the bike craps out.

I'm going to focus electrically when I get back to looking at it.

 

Today, gotta put the lights on the Christmas tree. Man, I hate that! Why is it always the man's job to hang the lights? LOL

 

Again, keep the suggestions coming.

I will post what eventually works for me.

I love this forum.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Beau-Kat

[djh3]

Unless he made the ignition by-pass him self it probably for the RSV. You could rig up a temp fuel tank with say a quart of gas and go for a ride.

[billmac]

Did you blow air thru the tank breather hose with a compressor? may have a bug or nest in it that may cause a vapor lock. just blowing in the hose may not have enough pressure to clear the hose.

[Beau-Kat]

Did you check the fuel filter. if backward would /could cause this also if the filter is wrong size won't let enough fuel thru at speed.

 

Yup. Fuel filter is new and checked for good flow.

[Beau-Kat]

Did you blow air thru the tank breather hose with a compressor? may have a bug or nest in it that may cause a vapor lock. just blowing in the hose may not have enough pressure to clear the hose.

 

Blew through it easily with just mouth pressure (some would say I was just blowing hot air, as usual).

[Beau-Kat]

Unless he made the ignition by-pass him self it probably for the RSV. You could rig up a temp fuel tank with say a quart of gas and go for a ride.

 

That's my next plan.

[MikeWa]

Did you open the gas cap when this was occurring? Here are my thoughts. Electrical component (ign switch, module, coils etc) getting hot and shutting down. Aftermarket fuel pump not up to the task. Tank vent partially blocked (gas cap will tell). A faulty component such as a side stand or kill switch. And of course a loose connection. Good luck sorting this out.

 

Mike

[Beau-Kat]

More good suggestions. Thanks.

Stayed up late last night.

Removed and went through the carb and fuel system again.

No problems found there.

Disconnected and cleaned every electrical connector, fuse, etc. that I could find.

Got a sick five year old son here and it's raining a bit today.

Gonna try to ride it again tomorrow.

[Beau-Kat]

It's still raining here!!!!!

[ToyOdie]

After reading the entire thread, I'm convinced it's a fuel starvation issue. An electrical problem wouldn't normally fix itself so quick. The initial ride goes for about 20 miles then it dies. After a short period you can start it and ride a short way and it dies again. Sounds like fuel flow can't keep the float bowls full. I would replace the fuel filter again and check the flow from the fuel pump. Then I would remove the carbs and clean them paying close attention to the needle and seat. Another thing I would consider is the tank petcock. I would remove it and check to see if its clear. If its the same as the RSV it will have a screen on the pickup. Floating particles can clog he screen causing low flow. When the demand goes away (it dies) some fall away until demand draws them back to the screen. I have seen this in cars, bikes and small engines.

[Beau-Kat]

After reading the entire thread, I'm convinced it's a fuel starvation issue. An electrical problem wouldn't normally fix itself so quick. The initial ride goes for about 20 miles then it dies. After a short period you can start it and ride a short way and it dies again. Sounds like fuel flow can't keep the float bowls full. I would replace the fuel filter again and check the flow from the fuel pump. Then I would remove the carbs and clean them paying close attention to the needle and seat. Another thing I would consider is the tank petcock. I would remove it and check to see if its clear. If its the same as the RSV it will have a screen on the pickup. Floating particles can clog he screen causing low flow. When the demand goes away (it dies) some fall away until demand draws them back to the screen. I have seen this in cars, bikes and small engines.

 

Looked like starvation/venting to me too. Since it would restart rather quickly, figured it probably wasn't a component getting hot and causing the bike to die.

But all that fueling stuff was clean. Even when I took it all apart again, it was all clean with good fuel flow, venting, etc.

 

Well, it finally dried up around here and I got to road test the Roadstar again.

 

Ran like a top this time. Never cut off. Rode it about 50 miles.

 

Just don't know.

 

I'm gonna try to ride it about 75 miles next time before I declare it (miraculously) healed and return it to my friend.

Need the room in my shop.

 

Thanks for all the assistance I received from all of y'all.

[djh3]

Many years ago when I worked in an independent auto shop, we had a car that sometimes run fine then stop. Sometimes many miles sometimes 5 min. After weeks of troubleshooting and guessing we found it purely by accident. Neighbor hood kid had dropped a golf ball in the tank. Fuel would get to a certain level, ball would float to pickup and block it. Car dies, suction lost ball drops and picks up fuel again and away we go. One of the dangdest things I ever saw. Once unleaded fuel cam around you didnt have to worry about that anymore.

[Beau-Kat]

Well, I took the Roadstar back to the owner last week.

 

He has reported that he has ridden it many times and it has run like a top and he is happy with it.

 

Thank you, Lord.

 

Case closed.

 

Now, on to some of my own Vmax maintenance.

 

Still looking forward to plenty of riding days during the wintertime around here.

[Beau-Kat]

Many years ago when I worked in an independent auto shop, we had a car that sometimes run fine then stop. Sometimes many miles sometimes 5 min. After weeks of troubleshooting and guessing we found it purely by accident. Neighbor hood kid had dropped a golf ball in the tank. Fuel would get to a certain level, ball would float to pickup and block it. Car dies, suction lost ball drops and picks up fuel again and away we go. One of the dangdest things I ever saw. Once unleaded fuel cam around you didnt have to worry about that anymore.

 

Back in the late 60s, I had heard similar stories about Ping-Pong balls dropped in the tank.

Don't know if those were true, or just yarns.

Seems like gas would eat up the Ping-Pong balls