Anyone ever pull a 1st gen rear shock apart?

[Great White]

Dropping by for a quick question as per the title.

 

Pictures maybe?

 

Now that I have emulators in the front forks, I'm looking at ditching the air suspension completely. I'm kicking myself for getting all that air suspension stuff figured out/bought and up to snuff, but air adjust is a pretty poor way to deal with the suspension dynamics (more air means more stiction as the seals get a death grip on the rod/body). Or it might just be a bladder on top of a very short (and fat) shock. I'd rather do it with spring rates and damping all the same.

 

So I'm looking at rebuilding the rear shock (yes, I know it's got all kinds of "do not disassemble" warnings) and adding an external reservoir to add compression damping as well as what the damping shim stack already looks like in there. Contrary to popular belief, it's not as hard to do as one would think with most "non rebuild-able" shocks. I've ordered a junk one off ebay to tear apart to investigate.

 

I also have a couple CBR600F shocks that have both compression and rebound damping. Had them on my 750 interceptor and worked very well. Can be made to work with higher rate spring and re-valving. Lots of aftermarket support for this one too.

 

Lastly, I've got a ZG1400 Concourse shock on the way. Has remote preload adjuster and rebound damping already. May look at adding an external res and compression damping. Spring rate is already in the ball park (750 Lb spring rate) for the Venture. Not sure on length. Clevis mount on the bottom that is easy enough to make and adapter for.

 

But before all that swapping/fabbing is tried, Has anyone opened a 1st gen shock?

 

Got some pics?

[djh3]

I would check with Hagon. For the Second Gen they make a good replacement shock that is custom built and also rebuildable. It is a non-air shock and has bump adjustment.

[cimmer]

At one time Progressive Suspension had a replacement shock set up for the 1st Gens but they have dropped it from their line. You might be able to find a left over at one of the online sources or maybe a used one off of Ebay. They also made a spring replacement for the stock shock and I have seen those show up on ebay more then the complete shock does.

Good Luck

Rick F.

[Great White]

Thanks, but I'm not looking for an aftermarket replacement.

 

Looking to make my own.

 

No fun for me in just buying it and bolting it on.

 

Don't learn anything either.

 

So I'm guessing no one has ever taken a 1st gen shock apart?

Edited November 15, 2015 by Great White

[djh3]

Thanks, but I'm not looking for an aftermarket replacement.

 

Looking to make my own.

 

No fun for me in just buying it and bolting it on.

 

Don't learn anything either.

 

So I'm guessing no one has ever taken a 1st gen shock apart?

 

Call Guinness and let them know when your starting.

[Great White]

Call Guinness and let them know when your starting.

 

What a thoughtful and insightful comment.

 

thanks.

[Freebird]

I wish I could help but just can't. I know that the second gen shock could not be taken apart without being destroyed but I just don't know about the first gen.

[djh3]

What a thoughtful and insightful comment.

 

thanks.

 

Just sayin, if your the first you should get credit. LOL Seriously looks as though you might get the spring off, but couldnt really see and set screws or the like in the pics I found. Its not all bad if they have a shock that fits. After all you would ha e to do some trial and error, and could get expensive.

[Great White]

Just sayin, if your the first you should get credit. LOL Seriously looks as though you might get the spring off, but couldnt really see and set screws or the like in the pics I found. Its not all bad if they have a shock that fits. After all you would ha e to do some trial and error, and could get expensive.

 

Nah, I could care less about "credit". It the end result that metters to me and how well it works.

 

Taking shocks apart isn't that difficult. I've done it before. Even so called "non-rebuildable".

 

They went together, they come apart. It's just a question of where to put the recharge valve for the nitrogen (or if there is enough room on the body at all). If the Venture shock is indeed an emulsion shock (what it looks like), it's easy peasy to do. problem with a recharge valve on the venture shock is there's precious little body showing outside the spring.

 

Parts are also often a bit difficult to find, as often no one makes the seals you need. At least, not listed as so. I've made seals work before by matching the ram size and then machining a spacer to fit the OD of the seal. You always want a smaller OD seal than the shock body opening. Most shocks don't have enough "meat" in the end caps to machine them larger.

 

Once you're inside, manipulating the compression and rebound damping is easy. It's just tedious to get it right as the install/ride/remove/re-valve/install/ride/remove/re-valve/etc process is a PITA.

 

The question with the 1st gen is that air bladder on top of the shock and how primitive the rebound valve is.

 

I wanted to know if anyone had taken one apart before to find out if tearing the bladder in the removal process is a concern. That's why I bought the scrap shock to take apart first when no one replied to the thread with pics or experience. If can avoid wrecking parts of these old shock with a simple pic, it's worth asking.

 

I've been down this road before. If the Venture shock turns out to be a dud (IE: not worth it due to too primitive internals), I'll just slave an external reservoir from a CBR/F4 on to the ZG1400 shock I have on the way:

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFg5MDA=/z/ncYAAOSwcwhVQBBw/$_57.JPG

 

It looks to have a perfect surface for installing a CBR600 reservoir:

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2NlgxNjAw/z/rDgAAOSwgQ9VqSNb/$_57.JPG

 

Looks ready made for it, or just an easy point for a recharge valve. Thread, braze or weld it on.

 

The CBR reservoir will give me a compression damping valve and an external recharge point.

 

Then just machine up an adapter to go from the clevis mount to the through mount and call it a day.

 

Easy peasy to change the shock oil after those modifications.

 

The ZG shock has the advantage of being from this decade (IE: modern internals), a 750 lb spring stock, a selection of aftermarket springs, available seals, a remote pre-load adjuster and a great deal more rebound damping adjustment than the older Venture shock.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Great White

[Flyinfool]

You are definitely on the bleeding edge of where you are going with your Venture. I have been learning a lot following your adVentures.

 

I have also been called a fool for trying to fix something that I could just buy new. I guess that is why my name is fool. But I can totally understand the why.

[Great White]

You are definitely on the bleeding edge of where you are going with your Venture. I have been learning a lot following your adVentures.

 

I have also been called a fool for trying to fix something that I could just buy new. I guess that is why my name is fool. But I can totally understand the why.

 

The venture is a good ride as it is. No complaints this season riding it.

 

I just want a little......well, more.

 

 

With my back messed up, I might not be on the FJ next summer (can't crunch my back in a forward curve because of herniated disc) and that's my go fast/cornering fix. So the V will be pressed into that duty also. Parking the FJ is not all bad, gives me time to do the 17" radial swap and some much needed restoration work. In order to make the V all it can be, it needs some radical steps.

 

Even if I do manage to get it up to around 100 RWHP (VMax bits and assorted whatnots), it's still going to have cornering limitations and a "flexi-flyer" frame. Well, maybe. Or maybe not if some of my plans work out. Riding position is still going to be all wrong for serious cornering work, but some concessions for the old bod need to be made.

 

But the problem with being on the edge is it's very easy to go too far and fall right off.....

 

Edited November 16, 2015 by Great White

[Great White]

Ya know, the more I think about it, the more I lean towards tossing the xvz shock and just going with the zg1400 shock plus the F3 remote reservoir with compression damping adapted on.

 

And maybe a higher rate spring. The V is on a bit of a diet, but my 215 lbs of lard on top of a 700-odd pound bike is probably going to lead to more than 35mm of sag with a 750lb linear spring....I'm thinking around 1000-1100lb linear spring should be just about right.

 

I think I'll call "Parts For Trucks" tomorrow and see if they can do a custom wind for me......

Edited November 16, 2015 by Great White

[Ozlander]

The reason I like air forks and air shocks is that sometime I ride single and sometimes I ride two up.

I like easy change over, rear shock mostly.

[videoarizona]

I'm with Jeff. I enjoy following where you are going with your VR. I'm learning as fast as I can read!

Thanks for the pics as well!

david

[Great White]

The reason I like air forks and air shocks is that sometime I ride single and sometimes I ride two up.

I like easy change over, rear shock mostly.

If you look at the pic of the zg1400 shock that I'll likely be using, the preload is a simple remote hand knob. Just as easy (or easier) than air.

 

I've never liked air as suspension on a bike that I ride aggressively. It's worse than a progressive spring so even harder to damp properly (read: not possible since it's not linear) across the entire suspension travel.

 

I'm a little pickier than the average touring rider when it comes to suspension action. I want more than just "plush".

 

Ironically though, some of the "plushest" bikes I've ever ridden were sport bikes that had their suspension properly sorted. No shock on road irregularities, no pogo-ing or packing down on mid corner bumps. No head shake or chassis wobble.

 

Just a smooth and confidence inspiring ride.

 

The body position was a different story: monkey humping a football doesn't work for me......anymore.

 

The thing is, most people don't realize it but from cruisers to sport bikes we're all chasing the same thing without knowing it: control.

 

A well controlled suspension keeps the rubber on the pavement at all times for maximum control. It can't do that if its harsh on the bumps or pogos in the corners. Once it's all sorted and locked down, the end result is a smooth ride. What touring riders would call plush and what sport bike riders would call fast.

 

Edited November 17, 2015 by Great White

[Rick Butler]

BJ,

 

It's been a long time, but yes I have taken a coilover 1st shock apart but I did it with a Dremel and had to cut it apart. And there is nothing that is rebuildable in this shock without considerable machining, which would cost the same as a replacement shock. You had the good judgement to install RaceTech Cartridge Emulators in your forks (and hopefully replace the springs and bushings), but would you want to buy them or make them yourself?

 

I would suggest a Hagon, but looking at their application list it doesn't appear that they have one for the 86-93 Royale. But I would call them and see if they could build one with their components. You might send them yours to evaluate/prototype and maybe they would discount it? Regardless, they still make the best shock for the money.

 

http://www.hagonshocksusa.com/

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rick

 

Thanks, but I'm not looking for an aftermarket replacement.

 

Looking to make my own.

 

No fun for me in just buying it and bolting it on.

 

Don't learn anything either.

 

So I'm guessing no one has ever taken a 1st gen shock apart?