R1 Calipers

[Beach Bum]

Quick question.... What year R1 calipers should I buy to install and upgrade my 2006 RSV? Will 2000-2001 work? Is the master cylinder absolutely necessary or can that be done at a later time?

[bongobobny]

I'm pretty sure those years will work, just look at the picture and see if the bolt holes are on the side and not the top. Ideally you want the gold dots over the blue dots, the difference being gold dots are aluminum pistons whereas the blue dots are steel.

 

Without the 14mm master you won't notice and difference in the braking, and besides, why bleed the system twice??

[Atoolnut]

roadstar calipers and master cylinder will work as well

[Condor]

Started to answer this thread yesterday, but got called away mid-answer, and when I came back I couldn't find it because they don't keep the thing after you've looked at it.

 

Anyway.... R1 and R6 plus FJR's will fit. Blue or gold dot. Here's a couple of pics of the type you want to buy. The first will fit, the second will not work.

[BratmanXj]

roadstar calipers and master cylinder will work as well

 

1700cc Road Star ('07-up) or early Road Star Warrior ('02-'06) calipers and 14mm master match the existing look of the Venture/Tour Deluxe front brakes.

[Atoolnut]

1700cc Road Star ('07-up) or early Road Star Warrior ('02-'06) calipers and 14mm master match the existing look of the Venture/Tour Deluxe front brakes.

there the ones i used..chrome master cylinder 14 mm

[Condor]

1700cc Road Star ('07-up) or early Road Star Warrior ('02-'06) calipers and 14mm master match the existing look of the Venture/Tour Deluxe front brakes.

 

there the ones i used..chrome master cylinder 14 mm

 

I didn't know that... What do the RSW's sell for off eBay???

[BratmanXj]

RSWarrior.com for $65 for the whole set off a wrecked '02.

[Condor]

RSWarrior.com for $65 for the whole set off a wrecked '02.

 

Looked around on the road star website and got tired of looking for the calipers. Do an search on ebay and there's a bunch. MOF here's a nice set of R1's for about the same price. Also did a search for RW Warrior and only found one set and they were about $125. Granted theRSW's had everything while the R1's were only for the calipers, but that's all you need.

[BratmanXj]

Not denying that the older R1 & R6 calipers are more predominant on eBay, just saying there are OTHER options to search for.

 

The debate has gone back and forth many times and always comes back to matching the 14mm Master (vs the stock 5/8 master) is the MOST EFFECTIVE brake upgrade. If you are searching for a 14mm Master the Road Star & Warrior parts are a direct swap, and can be paired with the R1 & R6 4-pot calipers.

[Condor]

Not denying that the older R1 & R6 calipers are more predominant on eBay, just saying there are OTHER options to search for.

 

The debate has gone back and forth many times and always comes back to matching the 14mm Master (vs the stock 5/8 master) is the MOST EFFECTIVE brake upgrade. If you are searching for a 14mm Master the Road Star & Warrior parts are a direct swap, and can be paired with the R1 & R6 4-pot calipers.

 

Well guess what...here we go again. I've done R1 swaps on three 2ndGens, and one on a 1st MI, and never found a caliper only swap that didn't greatly improve stopping ability. So much so that even thinking that a master swap wasn't considered... I know that many members insist on swapping out the master as well, but I haven't found that to be the case. I do remember one individual posting that the R1's only didn't help one bit, and I contend that he hadn't bled them properly. I also understand that if someone wants to swap out the master that's their prerogative. It's just not needed....

[BratmanXj]

The R1-R6 swap greatly improves the breaking effectiveness, I will always tell someone to make the caliper swap even if it doesn't include the master. The two bikes that I have personally been on and my experience swapping my own I offer the following information:

 

1. Stock 2-pots brakes require a FIRM GRAB of the brake lever to slow down, to me there was very little modulation ability due to the amount of pressure needed on the lever to obtain useful braking. '99 Venture stock

 

2. 4-pot brakes with stock 5/8 Master, much more braking applied with less OVERALL pressure needed on the lever yet modulation was only in a very narrow portion of the lever swing. This was on a friends '04 Road Star.

 

3. 4-pot with 14mm master, same braking ABILITY as previous swap but more more modulation available through out the lever swing. '99 Venture with '02 RS Warrior calipers & master

[Condor]

I'm not sure I understand the term 'Modulation'. Could you explain? Also I'd like to know why a 14mm master would make that much of a difference over a 5/8th?

[BratmanXj]

Modulation...brakes are not a switch (on/off); there is a range from light application to full aplication. What I have noticed with the 5/8" master on the 4-pot brakes is only 1/3 of the lever travel is used to go from light to full application of the brakes. You loose "fine" control of brake application due the larger volume of fluid that is moved by the 5/8" master over the 14mm.

 

5/8" = 15.875 mm

That is 13.4% larger than 14mm

That may not seem like a lot but makes a big difference in a low volume system like your brakes.

[Condor]

Let's put this into layman's language. The 5/8" is only 1/16" larger than the 14mm. Hardly enough to make a huge difference in modulation...if any. Also when it comes to hydraulic brakes it's not the volume of fluid, but rather applied pressure. Remember the pads at rest are only 1 or 2 thousanths of an inch away from the rotors and fluid doesn't compress. If there is a difference between the two masters it's very slight. I haven't had the pleasure of comparing the lever of a 5/8ths to that of a 14mm. Perhaps someone who has both could do a side by side. I suspect there might be a difference in levers. They sell aftermarket levers that are adjustable.

[BratmanXj]

Why does everyone equate it back to inches when I show percentage?!? The change in mechanical advantage is the same if you look at it in inches vs mm. Pressure and volme are directly related in a closed system. If you change the volume by 13% you consider that negligible?

 

Again...if someone has the resources to ONLY do a cliper swap by all means do it, it is worth it by its self. But if you can also swap to the proper 14mm master (even if you see it as inconsequential) it greatly improves the brake feel over the 5/8" master. I have ridden both types of systems and I CAN feel the difference. I ride my RSV with a group of sport & sport tourers, I push the bike hard. The casual highway rider might not know the difference but I will never go back to the 5/8" master.

[Condor]

I thought I made that clear at the beginning of my last post. And...it ain't volume, it's pressure.... It's a tomato..tomahto thing. You do what you want if you feel it makes that much difference, but it isn't necessary....

[Beach Bum]

I found a set of low mileage R1 front calipers for about $65 shipped so I think I'll go ahead and buy them. Worst case is that I have a spare set of calipers. If the brakes still aren't as good as I'd like them to be I'll find a master that works. I have blue LEDs on my bike so the blue dots don't bother me too much.

[BratmanXj]

I found a set of low mileage R1 front calipers for about $65 shipped so I think I'll go ahead and buy them. Worst case is that I have a spare set of calipers. If the brakes still aren't as good as I'd like them to be I'll find a master that works. I have blue LEDs on my bike so the blue dots don't bother me too much.

 

Do it...any upgrade on these bikes is an improvement over stock. Kinda funny how even the Road Stars went up to the 4-pots in the later '00s when the Venture is an even heavier bike.

 

I thought I made that clear at the beginning of my last post. And...it ain't volume, it's pressure.... It's a tomato..tomahto thing. You do what you want if you feel it makes that much difference, but it isn't necessary....

 

Pressure and Volume are inter-related in the closed system. I guess some people confuse lever travel with brake effort applied to the lever. Too large of a master cylinder gives that "wooden" feel. If you ever feel a wooden brake you'll understand that term immediately, there is on & off with no modulation. When you go up in size on the master the effort at the lever will increase but the lever travel will decrease. The reason being the caliper piston sweep area is fixed and you are altering the master cylinder diameter.

 

http://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm

Edited November 12, 2015 by BratmanXj

[eagleeye]

Condor,

 

GREAT post, and I printed that article for future reference.

 

I have been wondering about the R-1 caliper and what it would do to the front braking on my RSTD. To be nice, it leaves a lot to be desired. And then there is switching the line to braided steel. I'm sure that plays into it also. If Yamaha has the correct ratio now and I switch calipers, the ratio would change. So again, if they got it right, and the master cylinders are a different size, then they should be switched also.

What do you suppose the ratio is on my RSTD?

I once rode a Triumph Rocket III and was most impressed with the front brake, and it is a heavy bike, so I know mine can be improved, only how?

[Condor]

Condor,

 

GREAT post, and I printed that article for future reference.

 

I have been wondering about the R-1 caliper and what it would do to the front braking on my RSTD. To be nice, it leaves a lot to be desired. And then there is switching the line to braided steel. I'm sure that plays into it also. If Yamaha has the correct ratio now and I switch calipers, the ratio would change. So again, if they got it right, and the master cylinders are a different size, then they should be switched also.

What do you suppose the ratio is on my RSTD?

I once rode a Triumph Rocket III and was most impressed with the front brake, and it is a heavy bike, so I know mine can be improved, only how?

 

I would think the results would be the same just swapping to the R1's since the '05TD's are more akin to the 2ndGen Venture. But then again I've never owned a TD so don't take it to the bank... Try the R1's first and if that doesn't greatly improve braking effort then go with the master, but I'll reiterate, I think you'll like what you get... It should be a plug and play installation. BTW I recommend Speed-Bleeders on all the brakes as well as the clutch, and when bleeding compress the pistons all the way into the calipers before bleeding. Do not try to seat the pads. What this does is make the volume of the caliper smaller and you won't need as much fluid to get the air out. Left side first. Once the air is out of the lines, close off the speed-bleeders, and then seat the pads. This can only be done with Speed-Bleeders. Making it a one man job, instead of the old fashion pump'n'bleed two man job...unless of course your doing the Tango...

[uechi kid]

Here is the information Skydoc sent me regarding this up grade. He used to sell an upgrade package that included SS lines. You don't need to change you master cylinder to greatly improve the front brakes.

 

The Calipers you are looking for are from the 1999 to 2002 Yamaha R1, The

2000 to 2006 R6. These calipers are SIDE MOUNTED Calipers. You do not want

the 4 piston TOP MOUNTED R1/R6 Calipers, nor do you want the TOP MOUNTED

Radial 6 Piston Calipers from the late model R1 or the VMAX. There are NO

brackets to be purchased. If you have the right Calipers, they are a direct

bolt on fit.

 

 

[uechi kid]

I would think the results would be the same just swapping to the R1's since the '05TD's are more akin to the 2ndGen Venture. But then again I've never owned a TD so don't take it to the bank... Try the R1's first and if that doesn't greatly improve braking effort then go with the master, but I'll reiterate, I think you'll like what you get... It should be a plug and play installation. BTW I recommend Speed-Bleeders on all the brakes as well as the clutch, and when bleeding compress the pistons all the way into the calipers before bleeding. Do not try to seat the pads. What this does is make the volume of the caliper smaller and you won't need as much fluid to get the air out. Left side first. Once the air is out of the lines, close off the speed-bleeders, and then seat the pads. This can only be done with Speed-Bleeders. Making it a one man job, instead of the old fashion pump'n'bleed two man job...unless of course your doing the Tango...

Hey Condor, if you have the part numbers for the speed bleeders handy it might make it less confusing for those interested to get the right ones. I couldn't find them in my records.

[bongobobny]

8 x 1.25

 

8mm threads, 1.25 turns per mm pitch

[Condor]

Hey Condor, if you have the part numbers for the speed bleeders handy it might make it less confusing for those interested to get the right ones. I couldn't find them in my records.

 

http://www.speedbleeder.com/Motorcycle%20Sizes.htm

 

Just remember to get 2 ea. of the 8125L. It kinda small at the top of the list....