modifying stock muffler

[garyS-NJ]

I have a stock '84 xvz12D with the stock mufflers and it is way too quiet/docile for me. I'm used to riding my '83 xj550 with an open collector and I also liked the sound of the venture with open collector.. But I don't want to reject the carbs just yet (this is my winter ride and just getting it on the road, I want to ride it) so running open collector is out of the question for now (I'll probably come back to this and rejet and look at a free flow air filter)..

 

so I'd like to modify my stock mufflers (and again, not rejet). My mufflers also have some rusty turn downs on the end of the cones (look stock). Anyway, from what I'm reading, seems I need to get the cone off the end and then drill some holes in the outer baffle plate.

 

below line talks about removing the cone but I'm not sure he's talking about a MK-I. can anyone provide a link or directions??

 

http://www.venturers.org/Tech_Library/index.php?action=article&cat_id=002009&id=193

 

?? this link seems to indicate that I only need to drill holes in the cone. I pulled one of turn outs off (see pics attached) and see some holes around the center tube. So the cone is the tapered section after the straight section of the muffler? and this cone should come off leaving a muffler section that's about 4" across??

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYCw_jrpVoc

 

[Great White]

LOL! that video is the guy that claims he's got a VMax engine in a Venture and then clearly shows it's got venture heads not VMax.

 

Some guys....

 

He just punched holes in the end of hte muffler itself to make it loud. Not recommended......

[garyS-NJ]

So what can I do??

[garyS-NJ]

Pics are my muffler

[Great White]

I personally dont see any attraction in noise for the sake of noise, but If you just want more, drill holes in 'em.

 

Also, the road King muffler swap seems rather popular. There a couple video clips around here somewhere.

 

Here's one (skip to 4:38):

 

 

Keep in mind he's in a garage which makes them sound a bit louder/different than outside.

[garyS-NJ]

I bought this bike for $75 and just want enough into it to ride fun, and safe, and now. mufflers are off for new tires and will go back on somewhat modified today. It's not about defning noise but I ride in congested areas all the time (live in a city and ride in NYC) and loud pipes save lives. Also, an engines sound is my music (although I recently did a long ride with earphones and music and it was fun) and I love the feedback and also feeling a smogged up engine breath better they run way better.. Kinda surprised I'm not finding any details on modifying my mufflers. I think the whole tapered end will come off.. If the plugs burn I'll swap in a spare set I have

[Great White]

Loud pipes don't save lives. That's an old myth used to justify it to a certain type of rider who wants to have straight pipes. In fact. I've seen them almost cost lives by people jerking the wheel as this gawd awful noise roars up beside them. Defensive riding saves lives, loud pipes just scare people and piss them off. By the time they hear your noise you're past them anyways and only the people behind you are getting the "loud pipes". Those that are behind you don't matter a wit to your safety.

 

Anyways, personal choice I guess, but the "saves lives" thing is nothing but bunk. Not trying to sound like your dad, but that saying really gets my goat. Pure, unadulterated BS and all it does is give us all a bad name as a group.

 

The 1st gen Venture is pre-emissions so non of that to worry about there.

 

The V isn't a a stopped up engine. Quite the contrary, it's pretty free flowing. That's how they get the 98-odd HP out of it. Only way to get more is rework the heads and cams like they did on the VMax.

 

Letting an engine "breath better" also usually results in less performance. It may sound faster, it may fool you into thinking it feels faster but on a measured performance test it's going to be slower. what it really does when it "feels faster" is it has created dips and flat spots in the power curve. When it comes out a a dip it "feels" faster than before.

 

The same thing can be seem on the VMax and with VBoost. The VBoost feels like it hits like a 2 stroke coming on the pipe when it opens, but the VMax is measurably faster when a stage seven kit is installed which eliminates the VBoost system. It's all trickery to make the bike seem like it hits hard. Don't get me wrong: a VBoost equipped VMax is faster than one of the European ones without VBoost, but the Stage 7 kit with just open intake pipes (and a free flowing exhaust) is even faster. Yet it doesn't hit like a VBoost VMax coming out of it's "dip" it just pulls hard the whole way through.

 

Translation: the "Butt Dyno" is usually lying to you...the "ear dyno" is always lying to you.

 

More air needs more fuel or it goes lean. Lean can get you more power, until you cross into too lean. Most bikes are set up lean form the factory as delivered so increasing "breathing" 9 times out of 10 just tips it into too lean and performance drop.

 

If you want more noise/louder, that's up to you. Most guys I've seen just drill holes in the end cones like the dude in the video posted above. That's pretty much your only "no cost" modification for louder. The 2nd gen guys have a procedure of taking theirs apart (IE: cut them open), alter the interior bits, and weld it back up again. Makes it louder, I have no idea on what it does to measured performance. There's a few threads on the board if you search for them. Might be something you can apply to a 1st gen, but you're cutting your own path with that one I think.

 

Your bike, your call.

 

Edited October 31, 2015 by Great White

[garyS-NJ]

Are horns good equipment to let someone know you are in a potentially critical area? I've been riding street for 35 years and a lot of urban riding and oh hell yea I'd rather people know I'm next to them or in front, or on the side or coming across... even coming up from behind unless you are passing them at warp speed. loud pipes are a passive safety element like reflective materials and lights which help people to be aware of you (look twice save a life). And a crack on the throttle is always a faster and more efficient means of gaining someone's attention on the street. this is part of defensive riding. And I don't care if people scowl or I give bikers a bad name if it's keeping me alive an extra day.

 

And I understand A/F ratio so add more air and then more fuel and then more power. Understood the power might be in a different place and a cammed up hot rod is not the smoothest thing to send your momma to the grocery store on. People that never jetted a carb (not you because I know you know plenty..) always say you can't run open intake and exhaust, because they don't.

 

maybe I'll dremmel a hole or two in the center pipe before punching holes in the taper (or cutting the taper off), because to swap mufflers, I also have to swap the rear passenger pegs to boards

[Great White]

Are horns good equipment to let someone know you are in a potentially critical area? I've been riding street for 35 years and a lot of urban riding and oh hell yea I'd rather people know I'm next to them or in front, or on the side or coming across... even coming up from behind unless you are passing them at warp speed. loud pipes are a passive safety element like reflective materials and lights which help people to be aware of you (look twice save a life). And a crack on the throttle is always a faster and more efficient means of gaining someone's attention on the street. this is part of defensive riding. And I don't care if people scowl or I give bikers a bad name if it's keeping me alive an extra day.

 

And I understand A/F ratio so add more air and then more fuel and then more power. Understood the power might be in a different place and a cammed up hot rod is not the smoothest thing to send your momma to the grocery store on. People that never jetted a carb (not you because I know you know plenty..) always say you can't run open intake and exhaust, because they don't.

 

maybe I'll dremmel a hole or two in the center pipe before punching holes in the taper (or cutting the taper off), because to swap mufflers, I also have to swap the rear passenger pegs to boards

 

Noise is never the solution. It's neither an active or passive "safety element". It's definitely not part of defensive driving. If anything, it would be termed offensive driving. Noise is just noise. Urban riding just bounces noise off every thing so often nobody knows where you actually are if they can't see you. Visibility (and situational awareness) is key to increasing safety, not sound.

 

By the time someone has blasted the horn because they think someone is going to hit them (assuming you can actually find that tiny, little, seldom used horn button in time), I'm already gone from the danger or I never get into it because i see it coming. All I've ever had use for with a horn is to express my "displeasure" at something after the fact. Too late then to save me.

 

I prefer to make sure I'm in a drivers sight or well clear of any area where they could do something stupid and put me in danger. Bright clothing and lights on is also very helpful.Most drivers out there aren't a-holes, they don't want to hit anyone. If they see you, they are going to avoid you unless they are distracted or are being inattentive. To avoid you they need to see you, not hear you. We drive by sight, not sound.

 

A quiet, reasonably appearing bike also makes the officer much more likely to believe your story if it all goes wrong even if you did your best to avoid.

 

At the end of the day, there's not much you can do about a poor/distracted driver, except avoid them.

 

If you want louder exhaust, that's cool. It's your choice. That's the beauty of freedom of expression: I may disagree with you but it just means I disagree. Nothing else.

 

But don't fool yourself into thinking loud pipes makes you any safer. It doesn't.

 

If you're going to make holes, I recommend you do them in the bottom so you can weld them back up if you find it sounds like ess-hit. Lots of times, holes just sound like air leaks or a rotted out exhaust system.

 

Edited October 31, 2015 by Great White

[garyS-NJ]

Is beeping your horn at someone who is going to hit you considered defensive, offensive, or passive? come on!!!! Maybe we should get rid of horns (would have made 9th ave a whole lot more pleasant last night). And if you are driving by sight, without listening to anything then you are a bad driver. And folks that are inattentive (many and too many for my comfort) are often not looking so sound to ALERT them is good. everyone has their opinions about how much sound they want to make and/or hear but you can't argue that sound doesn't help. Full body armor would help.. I have a friend who is an everyday urban rider that wears leg armor (and a full face, gloves, boots and armored jacket). Some people wear tank tops and flip flops. it's choice but nobody would argue which is safer.

[Great White]

Well, your thread is about opening the mufflers so I'll stop with defensive driving/ riding. You seem to be getting a tad heated (and a touch insulting) so time to stop. We differ on opinion and that's fine by me.

 

 

I am also a 35 year rider with not an accident so what I'm doing works for me. The usual dirt bikes as a pup, started racing at 15, street bikes at 16 and im 50 now. Worst I've ever had (on the street) is a sore ankle from whacking a bumper I was just a tad too slow to completely clear in an avoidance maneuver when I was 17 (my speed was an issue and the car was stopped) and a torn knee when I was 16 that was my own fault from entering a corner too fast and discovering dump trucks had turned the outer part of the lane from clean pavement to mud.

 

http://www.tlemcen-electronic.com/forum/images/smilies/svengo.gif

 

So, drill the holes. But like I said I would suggest you do them in the bottom so you can weld them up if you don't get what you want out of it.

 

I'm out. Have fun with the V.

 

Edited November 1, 2015 by Great White

[garyS-NJ]

Bottom good idea

[cowpuc]

Hey Gary, no idea if you have access any form of welding equipment,, oxy/ace torch with some brazing rod? I took some 1 1/4 inch (if memory serves me - this was years ago on 1st Gen #3) thin wall chain link fence posts, cut em to length. Then took some sheet steel, used different sized bowls from the wifes kitchen and chalk marked out to bodies for some fish tails. Kicked a little bend in the pipes just before the spot where I welded the tabs on to hold the pipes on the Venture. Fishtails were pretty good sizes, plenty of length and depth to be able to squeeze em together for getting the exact sound I was looking for.. In the end they sounded SUPER and would belch flames if you tached it out and slammed it shut - really really pretty.. Total cost was just a couple bucks (had the pipe and sheet metal in my scrap metal pile).. Painted em high temp flat black and called it good.

Ran those pipes a LOT when I was riding 1 up. Also cut my windshield down to make the air flow just clear the top of my head - ended up with about a 4 inch shield. Also ran it with no trunk, had a set of Honda Shadow spots on it that I picked up from a swap meet with a set of mule deer horns mounted on the spots..

Got side tracked,, back to your 75 dollar scoot - WAY COOL!! I am also one to take a simple throw away scoot and go have fun on it - your a man after my own heart. I have seen those cones off the end of a set of 1st Gen muffs before,, thinking it was in a junk yard with one that had rotted apart or something.. For some reason I am thinking those may be spot welded on and make take some doings to knock em apart. Personally, I always refrained from enhancing my stockers to much because I didnt ride alone all the time and loud pipes can get a little tiresome on 2 month trips..

Concerning the "loud pipes save lives" idea.. My wife, Tip, and I bumped into a really interesting character riding an electric motorcycle across America a couple years ago when leaving Moab Utah. Guys name is Terry Hershner (or something like that) and he is really good friends with the very well reknown Craig Vetter. Terry was on his way to some kind of an electric bike competition in Ohio when we bumped into him. Got telling him that we LOVE to coast (engine off, in neutral,, downnnnn da mountain we go) and our farthest non stop was 29 miles and 36 minutes.. He LIKED that whole idea, kinda put us on the same wave length as someone riding electric..

Anyway,, like you,, I have spent a fair amount of time on a bike in NYC (had a daughter who went to school in Manhatten - 69th and 1st - Cornell), LA, Chicago and other insane cities.. Terry was from San Diego (I think) so I knew he had traveled some traffic on his bike. I happen to have asked him if he had had any issues resulting from not being heard.. He smiled and said EVERYDAY!! He and I actually talked about him building a loud speaker system with the recording of a big twin piped Harley that he could turn on when it traffic because of this issue. BUT,, on the other hand,, he and I both shared in the other side of the coin too about how much fun it is to silently motivate across the open desert late in the evening like bird on the wing...

[garyS-NJ]

I could cut the cones off with an angle grinder but want to know that I won't need jetting.. would be nice to find those guys on here. And I did a long high speed engine off run down a mountain once and it was a thrill. Like a glider plane. Fishtail required jetting? Do you have records of your jetting and what kind of sir filter?

[cowpuc]

I could cut the cones off with an angle grinder but want to know that I won't need jetting.. would be nice to find those guys on here. And I did a long high speed engine off run down a mountain once and it was a thrill. Like a glider plane. Fishtail required jetting? Do you have records of your jetting and what kind of sir filter?

 

Nah,, never did jet it out - seemed to do just fine by pinching the fins close together.. I gotta hunch that as long as you dont change the stock air box/filter and give it more air along with opening the pipe you should be ok. If you gut the inside of the muffs and find it seems to be running a little lean you can always add a washer into the pipes to restrict flow as needed.. Works great and saves on having to rip the carbs apart for jetting.. You can also fatten it up by shimming the needles with nylon washers if needed, a little more involved than tacking in a couple washers but still way easier that pulling the carbs and trying to jet out of a lean condition..

I still think a butterfly valve in each outlet would be fun (basically a washer as I mentioned on a pivot - real old school thinking), cable operate so you can open and close em as needed.. Those would be in the outlets before the megaphones, could easily adjust exhaust tones to exactly where you like em..

[garyS-NJ]

I punch a piece of 3/8 rod through the baffle plate from the exhaust end and couldn't hear a difference.. then I punch the rod through the baffle (seemed very close, maybe the same plate?) Via the muffler input end and again didn't hear much change!!! Except warming up on choke I think I hear some popping at the muffler input.. now what? Anyone have a cross section diagram of these mk-1 mufflers? Thinking I want to cut off the whole tapered section and yank out that center tube..

[cowpuc]

I punch a piece of 3/8 rod through the baffle plate from the exhaust end and couldn't hear a difference.. then I punch the rod through the baffle (seemed very close, maybe the same plate?) Via the muffler input end and again didn't hear much change!!! Except warming up on choke I think I hear some popping at the muffler input.. now what? Anyone have a cross section diagram of these mk-1 mufflers? Thinking I want to cut off the whole tapered section and yank out that center tube..

 

Here you go Gary!! Great info with some awesome pics - that @GeorgeS saves the day again,, THANKS George (and Freebird for posting this many years ago..)

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?3365-Anatomy-of-a-Muffler

[garyS-NJ]

Wow. Great stuff. Will pm him about the jetting

[garyS-NJ]

and another thing along the lines of my feeble attempt at opening up the oem mufflers.. below link has the writer modifying a set of Harley road king mufflers by driving a piece of 5/8" rod right through the entire muffler (two baffle plates?).. maybe I try this first? http://www.venturers.org/Tech_Library/?action=article&cat_id=002009&id=195

[garyS-NJ]

 

I'm wondering how this guy set up his intake and exhaust. looks like straight pipes.

[garyS-NJ]

Anyone running bubs 7 ( Slip-on Outward Slash Mufflers - Softail Deluxe (07-UP) ) on their MK-1???

 

Also, looking into my options, I found a set of BUBs 7 Slip-on Outward Slash Mufflers - Softail Deluxe (07-UP).. will these bolt onto my crossover (looks like they angle out and back like the original mufflers). there';s no mounting hardware so looks like I would have to fab a bracket./. Also, do these have an extra quiet baffle such that they would be comparable to the stock oem muffler? and then if the baffle comes out, do I need to rejet?

[fishrepair]

I have been riding since I was 16 years old and I am 71 now. Loud pipes do save lives, because they get the texting dufis attention long enough to notice you. Make em loud, you won't regret it in the long run son.

[garyS-NJ]

Just spoke to guy at bus and they never sold a muffler with an angle for the mk-1s. He did recommend anti reversion cone in the muffler chamber.

[garyS-NJ]

Bubs

[garyS-NJ]

well these sure look like bubs that would fit.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/400972415733