LukeMacPU Posted October 19, 2015 #1 Posted October 19, 2015 Just picked up an '83 Venture Royale that's been sitting for a couple years. It's got just under 40K miles on it. Word on the street is that it ran well when parked, but did have trouble with starter dragging when hot. I've looked around here a bit and learned that the starter drag is fairly common, but I've not found the fix yet. Is the fix to install the ground wire to the cover? I read up on that and could easily do it, just didn't know if that was the cure or I need to rebuild the starter. At this point, I've literally done nothing yet other than charge the battery and play with the CLASS and radio. Seems to air up front fine and hold pressure at 14-15 psi for M setting. Rear will pump up to 70 for H or 40-something for M, but quickly drops back down to 0-10 psi. You can hear it release the air right after the pump shuts off from pumping it up. Is that a valve problem or bad rear air shock? Since it's been sitting, my plan was to drain fuel, oil, and radiator and replace with fresh. Also planning to pull carbs and clean. I'd like to think it'll start after that, then I can sync carbs and lube everything else up. How do I go about draining the fuel? These have a fuel pump so I'm not sure how I can just empty it. Is tank removal necessary? Any tips would be much appreciated. I'm looking forward to getting this bike road-worthy and putting some miles on it.
MiCarl Posted October 19, 2015 #2 Posted October 19, 2015 The fuel tap is near the passenger right foot rest. You should be able to drain it there. When the pump shuts off the valve unloads it so it isn't under pressure, this releases a little spurt of air. If it's lasting more than a second or so you have a valve that is staying open. I'm guessing you don't have a leak since you don't indicate you hear air escaping while it's pumping. It could be a bad valve or the controller malfunctioning. The starter was barely adequate when hot. Make sure all your connections are clean and tight. I eventually put a 4 brush starter on my 89 to end that problem (search the site and you'll find information on starters). Welcome, and good luck!
LukeMacPU Posted October 19, 2015 Author #3 Posted October 19, 2015 This is an obvious newb question, but how do I get the seat off? My thumbs did this on a tiny keyboard so cut me some slack!,
LukeMacPU Posted October 19, 2015 Author #4 Posted October 19, 2015 The fuel tap is near the passenger right foot rest. You should be able to drain it there. When the pump shuts off the valve unloads it so it isn't under pressure, this releases a little spurt of air. If it's lasting more than a second or so you have a valve that is staying open. I'm guessing you don't have a leak since you don't indicate you hear air escaping while it's pumping. It could be a bad valve or the controller malfunctioning. The starter was barely adequate when hot. Make sure all your connections are clean and tight. I eventually put a 4 brush starter on my 89 to end that problem (search the site and you'll find information on starters). Welcome, and good luck! Thanks for the info, much appreciated. Hope to get started on it this week. My thumbs did this on a tiny keyboard so cut me some slack!,
MiCarl Posted October 19, 2015 #5 Posted October 19, 2015 Seat removal - There is a bolt on each side, about 2/3 of the way back (recessed behind a hole in the under seat trim). I'm not sure on yours if you need to pull the bags off to get to them or not. On my 89 (which has different luggage) I need to remove the lids from the bags to access the bolts.
BlueSky Posted October 19, 2015 #6 Posted October 19, 2015 Go to the tech library and read. There is a copy of the shop manual there.
LukeMacPU Posted October 19, 2015 Author #7 Posted October 19, 2015 I've got a copy of the service manual on CD that came with the bike. I had a hard time finding where it covered removing the seat, but it's a little tough reading through it in PDF format. I just haven't had an opportunity to work on the bike at all since I picked it up Saturday. I pulled the faux gas tank off and charged the battery, but that's it. I'll pull the bags off and get into it a bit before I post any more silly questions. I was thinking there might be a keyed seat release or something obvious that I just hadn't located yet. In supplemental manuals on the CD it talks about cruise control. As far as I can tell, my '83 doesn't have cruise-control. It that correct for the year? It has Royale badges and keys, which I though was the fancier version with all the bells and whistles. Can't find any cruise control switches on/near the right handle-bar, but I could be missing something.
videoarizona Posted October 19, 2015 #8 Posted October 19, 2015 To help us identify bike: Take some pictures. Supply your VIN. There are guru's here that will tell you a lot by both above. Cruise controls should be on right handlebar...if equipped. Join the club....best $12 you will ever spend!
LukeMacPU Posted October 20, 2015 Author #9 Posted October 20, 2015 Here are a couple photos. Haven't cleaned it up at all yet, just unloaded from the trailer. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/20/1e1efeddbe28dd54859372650ccb2ba3.jpg http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/20/97b9235feea6256e8e96043404316ec6.jpg VIN - JYA31M000DA000822 My thumbs did this on a tiny keyboard so cut me some slack!,
Flyinfool Posted October 20, 2015 #10 Posted October 20, 2015 For "not being cleaned up yet" that is a whole lot cleaner than my bike. I would try a can of Seafoam in a fresh tank of gas and see how it runs. If it runs good enough to ride it, then run that tank thru it. You may not have to pull the carbs. There are several issues with the starter and hot starts. Being sure that all connections at BOTH ends of the wires are clean, is critical. Not just the terminal faces but check for corrosion where the terminal is crimped to the wire. Also be sure the surface where the starter bolts to the engine is clean, this is your ground path. Doing the ground wire mod to your starter will help. Upgrading all 3 power and ground cables to 4 AWG welding cable will help. Putting in a 4 brush starter from the newer bikes will help a lot. Doing any one of these things will make it better, doing all of this is the final answer. I cant help much with the other stuff since I do not have a Royal.
videoarizona Posted October 20, 2015 #11 Posted October 20, 2015 @Prairiehammer, does that VIN help in determining year and model Venture? VIN# is posted under second picture. Question is about cruise control... Was it standard or an option on a VR?
LukeMacPU Posted October 20, 2015 Author #12 Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Just looking over my title today. According to the paperwork, the previous owner bought the bike in 2009. It had 39,125 miles on it 4/25/09. It now still has less than 39,200 miles so... I either have a non-functional ODO or the bike has been ridden less than 75 miles in the last 6 years. I doubt it'll fire up, but I might give is a shot just to see how bad it is. Edited October 20, 2015 by LukeMacPU
LukeMacPU Posted October 20, 2015 Author #13 Posted October 20, 2015 I pulled the luggage seat and side covers while I was home at lunch. I attempted to hear the rear suspension leak so I turned the key to accessory and set rear to M. Pump came on, pressure went up, it shut off and there was an air dump. Couldn't hear anything leaking, but I figured I'd have a better chance with more pressure. Set rear to H and it quickly pumped up to 70 psi. No air dump after the pump shut off and now I've got an E1 code. CLASS screen showed E6 briefly, then switched to E1. I turned it off and back on and it worked briefly then went back to E1. No air dump when compressor shut off and now E1 code. This a symptom of the bad solder I've read about?
Flyinfool Posted October 20, 2015 #14 Posted October 20, 2015 Usually bad solder is the E4 code, But others are possible. I don't have any class so I do not know the codes.
videoarizona Posted October 20, 2015 #15 Posted October 20, 2015 Luke, Do a Search of our older posts in this forum. There should be a ton of posts regarding the error codes and how to repair. many were simple and easy. Lots of pics and info. Both E1 and E4 are error codes that are normally fixed with re-soldering the terminal solder points. They crack and make intermittent connection. Simply old age. I repaired mine in less than 30 minutes...and that included the time it took to take the computer out of the right side of the dash, take it apart, and solder the connections where the connector mates to the circuit board. I put it back together and no problems since. This was the first repair I did on my 89. Easy!
LukeMacPU Posted October 20, 2015 Author #16 Posted October 20, 2015 Got a chance to do a little work today when I got home from work. Drained old gas, put in about a gallon of fresh. Drained the oil and replaced with new. Figured I try to start it and see if it fired... Turns out my starter is not working well enough to get it going. With battery charged and booster attached, it still would barely turn over. Voltage dropped when trying from 12 (middle of gauge) to 8 in the red. I tried using a jumper cable to go directly to post on starter and it still wouldn't turn over. Sounded just like when I pushed the starter button. The guy I got the bike from said starter was problem for him before he quit riding it, I just didn't think it would be that bad. I've read you can make a big improvement in some cases just by cleaning the internals of the old starter. I plan to attempt that and bench test it. Anyone have much luck with the re-build kits that are being sold for $20? I'm not opposed to buying a starter in the long-run if I can get the bike sorted, but I'd like to get it running before I sink $120 - $200 in a new starter. My CLASS is acting strange. I think my valves are not opening correctly. Pumps up rear shock from indicated 0 to indicated 45 in about 3 seconds. I'm afraid all it's doing is building pressure in the lines or the valve assembly back there. As soon as I hit the rear button to check pressure its right back down at 0-10 psi. Front seems to work fine. I get an E6 code occasionally and the valves at the back don't release the pressure after pumping when it happens. If I tap on the valve/solenoid back by the compressor it'll click and then the code goes away and it goes back to not really pumping up the rear. Is that correctable?
videoarizona Posted October 21, 2015 #17 Posted October 21, 2015 Hmmm...search for that one. Maybe the solenoid is repairable or cleanable. Don't know. But I did find the info on soldering the computer... http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?493-CLASS-E4-Error-Repair From Prairiehammer: Before you disassemble the solenoid valves, check the reed valve at the inlet to the valve body. The reed valve acts as a check valve, air travels only in one direction through it. If debris is caught in the reed valve, it will not perform as a check valve. Most common cause of reed valve failure is a particle of desiccant caught in it. Insure that the solenoid valves are actually opening and closing fully. Make sure the intake (suction) air filter is clean and free flowing. Finally, the Teflon piston ring may be worn out. The compressor will seem to function when freely running, but the back pressure when installed in the bike causes blowby past the piston. Last edited by Prairiehammer; 08-10-2015 at 06:25 AM.
LukeMacPU Posted October 21, 2015 Author #18 Posted October 21, 2015 Thanks! Kept reading about that re-solder write up, but I hadn't been able to find it yet. I'll check out the valves and the reed before I start soldering. The pump seems to be moving air and generating up to 70 psi, just doesn't seem to be getting where it needs to be and/or keeping it there. My thumbs did this on a tiny keyboard so cut me some slack!,
Prairiehammer Posted October 21, 2015 #19 Posted October 21, 2015 @Prairiehammer, does that VIN help in determining year and model Venture? VIN# is posted under second picture. Question is about cruise control... Was it standard or an option on a VR? Yes. The VIN confirms that the bike is a 1983 Venture Royale intended for the American market. But there was no factory cruise control on the 1983 Venture. Factory cruise control was not available until the 1983½/1984 Venture Royale.
LukeMacPU Posted October 21, 2015 Author #21 Posted October 21, 2015 So far, mostly bad news on my bike... While draining fuel and working on it last night, I also discovered the rear brake master cylinder is not working at all. Appears to have sprung a leak at some point and is covered in crusty crud. I'll be pulling that shortly to see if it looks like a rebuild kit will do the job.
videoarizona Posted October 21, 2015 #22 Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) ((I'll be pulling that shortly to see if it looks like a rebuild kit will do the job.)) Luke, check the older posts on the master cylinder as well. It could be something simple. Seriously. Lots of things can be fixed on these scoots with elbow grease and a cleaning. Once cleaned, you may find an "O" ring needs replacing and leak fixed, or the cleaning found something else. Always check the archives....sometimes you have to be creative in choosing the right search words to find what you are looking for. Once in the general area, on the bottom of the posts you will find more related posts to follow. Tons of info here... Then, after you have exhausted the old posts and asked the questions... you can spend bux on new parts or rebuild kits. Unless it's easier for you to replace with new. There is something to be said for that as well. Not trying to change your way of doing things, just offering suggestions. david PS Is the reservoir for the rear master cylinder above the MC on an 83? If so, Maybe the leak is there? BTW, do not overfill the rear master....when the fluid gets hot, the brakes will expand and you will find yourself slowly coming to a stop. Bleed the rear brake and you'll be good to go. But on my 89, there isn't any way to tell if you overfill...so I only fill up to just below the filler neck on the reservoir. If anything, I'm shy below the neck opening. Edited October 21, 2015 by videoarizona
LukeMacPU Posted October 21, 2015 Author #23 Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Appreciate the info. I wasn't really looking for help on the brakes just yet, as I'm still researching. That was more an update than a cry for help. Yes the reservoir appears to be above the MC on my '83. Seems like a bad location for filling and access. My brake pedal has no resistance (other than return spring) and does nothing to slow front or rear wheel spin. I'll be careful to no overfill. I've found forums to be a great source of information for very specific topics. First got into them about 10 years ago when I was working to restore a '79 Bonneville Special to road-worthy condition. Really cool that the internet allows people across the country and around the world to share information so easily! The one trouble I have found that seems to be universal across all of the forums I've encountered is that searching can be tough. The information is usually out there, just a question of finding it. The "similar threads" list at the bottom is pretty cool. Thanks for pointing that out. On a bike this age on a forum dedicated to this specific model, I probably won't encounter anything that hasn't been covered here already. I'll try to keep using the search function so as not to re-ask a question that's been hashed out a thousand times. Edited October 21, 2015 by LukeMacPU answer question
Flyinfool Posted October 21, 2015 #24 Posted October 21, 2015 Believe it or not, even with all of the info on this site, some people still manage to come up with stuff that no one here ever heard of before, its rare to find a new one, but we have always figured it out eventually. A good challenge is always fun. Especially if I aint paying the bill....... Some people trouble shoot by throwing money at the problem till it goes away, and others want to find and isolate the issue, its cause and needed fix. Many times it can be fixed faster by guessing and tossing money at it but at a much higher cost. Finding the real problem usually takes longer but ends up costing less. Pick your poison.
MiCarl Posted October 21, 2015 #25 Posted October 21, 2015 The very first thing I'd do on the suspension is re-solder the connector on the CLASS control board. The CLASS control is mounted in a flip up panel, when you flip it up you can see the connectors (one plug in for the control and two wires with bullet connectors for the back light). The controller is attached with four nuts. After removing open it up (off hand I don't recall how, but must be obvious because I've done it). Re-solder all the connections from the white multi-pin connector to the circuit board. Those crack and can cause all kinds of codes and strange behavior.
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