Idiot drivers

[VerntureVet]

Not sure if this is the correct place for this move it if it is not.

 

Admitting I am a touch hot headed and coupled with being bi-polar does not help the matter sometimes. I am lucky to have an understanding family and over the years I have learned ways to check myself when my meds just don't do the trick. But man I tell you I am a hair shy of loosing my cool when it comes to the idiots on the road who seam to think a Motorcycle can magically grow wings and fly out of danger or they are blind to anything with less than 4 wheels. I mean come on now I have a stupid bright LED headlight (not pointing high just normal 100ft patern) that has a high frequency pulse. My bike by some is considered obnoxiously load even when just cruising worse if I am accelerating and X 2 if the wife is on and the extra load required more twist.

 

This week alone its been building up with more than a few times I have been pushed out of my lane, pulled out in front of, and even a car merging onto the E-Way when a semi in the left lane prevented me from my normal getting over and a car riding my azz kept me from slowing down. So today I took the wife to get her glasses adjusted and on the way home on a straight no traffic road I slowed down to make a right onto the cross road that has STOP SIGNS and I did not. Just as I got down to 15-20mph and started to lean into the turn this woman from the left stop sign just decides its her time to cross the road right in front of me. I had to lock up my rear and lean deep into the turn and ended up almost 180 in the damp grass with the wife on the back. Somehow the bike stayed upright and she stayed on but with a death grip on my waist that left marks. Prob. More luck than skillfull riding.

 

So I lost my cool popped it in gear and down the road after her I went. down @ the next stop sign I pulled around her and parked my bike in front of her car got off and proceed to inform her of her IQ and some other choice comments mixed with questions about if she was dumb or trying to kill me. Not my brightest moment but it is what it is. So luck have it the sheriff just happened to drive by and notice my parking job and apparent harassment of the driver. He ordered me to cool my jets and move my bike and after him having conversations with me and the driver she pulled off. Luck have it I new the guy and he just gave me the 3rd degree and informed me she said she didn't try to kill me. Also that my ROAD RAGE could be a felony.

 

So How is it some idiot can try and kill me but my *****ing her out over it is a felony.

 

WTF do we do short of flashing beacons and 150db exhaust ?... wait thats illegal also.

 

If you video tape say on a go pro someone doing this does that even hold up in court for at least reckless driving?

[Great White]

I always ride with a helmet cam (more so my wife can prove the other driver was at fault and killed me).

 

I always ride defensively.

 

I always expect the other driver to do something stupid.

 

I always leave myself an escape route.

 

I always just pull off and sit down or stop for a coffee after a near miss.

 

Kept me alive in 35-odd years of riding.

 

Raging after an incident never fixes anything, it only makes it worse....even though I may be raging just below the surface.....

[Ozlander]

Of course it wasn't her fault. How could it be?

[SilvrT]

She probably [didn't see you] .... just like all the rest of 'em.

 

ya, that rage tends to build up inside a guy and at some point, we "boil over" ... fortunately it doesn't bite us in the azz ... usually. Unfortunately, it sometimes does.

 

Can the simple act of chewing out another driver be considered a felony? Wouldn't there need to be some form of physical contact or verbal threat of harm? Calling someone "stupid" surely can't bring a felony charge.... can it? (if so, many of us are going to jail !)

[Larry1963]

I am not on meds, YET, but I did the same thing to a young lady in a parking lot. I was following the right of way, and she cut through parking lots and wasn't paying attention, and almost hit me, she had to slam on her brakes from side swiping me. It happened I was in front of her and she could not move, well, like you, I got off my bike and proceeded to yell at her. Well she was a teenager, and the big mean guy on the motorcycle hurt her feelings. I was on a different bike, it was a early model victory, black bike with bright yellow flames on the gas tank. It was cold and I was dressed in full leathers, I am 6'3" 265+ lbs. I scared her and offended her, she went home told daddy who went back to the parking lot to see if they had a security camera, not only did they have one it was a good one. Clearly see her speeding through the parking lot, me following the rules of the road, her almost hitting me and me of course yelling at her, and a full good picture of my license plate, nest day I got a call from the county sheriff dept and asked to see me at the location this happened. They showed all of us the video, I got threatened with a felony, even though the people in the car said I never cussed at her or threatened at her. It was the fact I was so "big" and scary looking that offended her. When I asked all parties involved if she was going to get lectured on her driving I was told that is not why we are here. I was not to come back to the premises on my motorcycle again. For some reason all motorcycle guys are bad guys, I have noticed motorcycle women are hot....., and we are always wrong. Unless we are dead then we are half wrong. We will save women motorcycle riders for another thread.

[Great White]

Problem is, when you exit your vehicle (or get off the bike) you've shown clear intent to escalate (in the eyes of the law) and that's considered aggression..

 

In the legal sense, if nothing happened (ie:damage or injury) then the two parties are expected to just go on their way. Mainly beciase nothing happened except some people got a good scare. A reasonable person is expected to calm down and move on.

 

If there is an accident, police are to be called (in Canada there's a dollar amount in damages where police report it, most provinces its 500 bucks) and they deal with the particulars and any legal bits.

 

No matter what happens, whoever shows aggression to the other first is wrong. Confronting someone is considered aggression.

 

I'm not saying I agree with it, just that that's the way it goes down in the police/courts eyes.

 

Now, chasing someone down a street? As far as the law is concerned: road rage and indefensible.....

[VerntureVet]

I'm not saying I wasn't in the wrong with the aggressiveness. But OPPS sorry I almost killed you because I was on my phone and not paying attention is just a bit short if ignorance. Just think its silly I am not allowed to get mad @ someone for almost killing me. Years ago when I was 17 I did a burn out on a dead end street and a cop happened to be near by. I got a ticket for reckless driving and excessive take off. So why even with a cam footage can people not get a ticket for failure to yield and reckless endangerment?

 

I am a responsible biker @Great White I do all of the stuff you do just to stay on 2 wheels. But for Pete sake when it happens more than once a week to me personally in this town full of collage students then something needs to be done or some attitudes need to change. Don't change my feelings @ all about it being a crime to ***** someone out but not a crime to be in irresponsible driver.

[Great White]

Oh no, they are for sure in the wrong. No doubts about that.

 

Nothing wrong with getting mad that someone almost hit you. I'm no saint either, I get mad and curse and yell. I just do it in my helmet or in my car.

 

But the law takes a very dim view of individuals doing something about that anger. Anything seen as confrontation and you're viewed as the agressor and being wrong. Doesn't mean they didn't make a traffic violation, but that doesn't mean you can do an assault (what the confrontation is seen as legally), which is seen as worse than the traffic violation.

 

Its kinda the "two wrongs don't make a right" thing.

 

If a cop pulls up and sees you're steaming angry but are controlling that anger, I find the opinion on who's at fault swings to the one controlling his anger.

 

I find a cool head and the helmet cam goes a long way when someone decides to be an @ss about traffic stuff too.

 

I've had people confront me after cutting me off, wander into my lane, etc. while I've stopped by the road and waiting for the adrenaline to burn out of my system. I might be shaking and angry, but I just talk very calmly and cooly and when they start with the yelling and BS I point to my helmet cam and say "I've got it all on video. I can voice dial from inside this helmet. Do you want me to call the police and see where this goes?"

 

To this day, no one has said yes and everyone has just shut up and left as quickly as they can get out of there....funny thing is, there's been a couple times that's happened and the camera battery was dead.

 

Edited October 15, 2015 by Great White

[Yammer Dan]

I had one a couple yrs ago when A woman pulled out in front of me while on a cell phone. You could almost get a sheet of paper between them when I got stopped. She then rolled down window and started cussing me while jabbering away on her phone I guess telling whoever about it!! I got off bike walked over to the side of her car plucked the phone from her hand, dropped it and stomped it. Got on my bike and went home!! After thinking about it I waited for the Law to come and get me. But the Warden told me she couldn't have called the Law because she didn't have a phone!! Would I do it again?? Depends on the mood I guess. I keep thinking I'll meet her one of these days. Will she know me???

[aharbi]

I don't do road rage (anymore). But I do take driver description, make model car color and license plate number. At first opportunity I call 311 non-emergency number they often transfer me to 911. Explain that I'm on a motorcycle and this person that almost hit (killed) me has some sort of impairment to not of seen me with their erratic driving :-) Either they are under the influence of drugs/alcohol or are dealing with a personal medical emergency, I'm very concerned about their safety. Word usually gets back to them about the "motorcycle" that reported them.

[SilvrT]

I pulled the following quote off a Globe and Mail article that seems appropriate here....

 

“Whenever you drive a car, you need to be civil with everyone on the road,” Stibbe says. “Patience is something we all lack and we overreact — and you could get yourself or somebody else killed.”

[VerntureVet]

It took my matter to the OHP and local Sheriff. The issue seams to be that even with a video an officer has to witness the event if no accident had occurred in order to issue a traffic citation. They explained this is why speed and red light cams can not add the offence to your DMV Record. The same does not apply for most criminal matters like assault or even road rage (aggregation from someone else against someone). So what it boils down to is a video of someone pushing you off the road and possibly killing you is not good enough to site a driver unless a prosecutor can be convinced it was a criminal act done intentionally. A video of a pissed off driver leaving his vehicle and being aggressive even if no harm or damage is done can land you anything from a disorderly conduct to a felony. This explains why @Larry1963 had the issue he had as I assume GA law is likely worded the same.

 

I told my wife I am going to get a few GoPro gen1s as they are cheap for the bikes just in case one of us get seriously injured or worse.

The OHP told me it would take a political campaign and lots of $$ to introduce a law to make videos evidence of a sitable traffic offence and that even then it is a tricky thing because it would open the door for ANY video including red light cams evidance.

 

So in the mean time I will just have to keep my attitude in check and start focusing on defensive skills like @Great White suggested. I worry about the wife as she is a novice rider now with her own 883. I almost feel the need to tap into my wreckless 20's when I was still fearless enough to do dumb tricks on the rockets and tech some of them skills to my wife. I am 100% sure I avoided a wreck more than once even on an 800lb bike because I know how to do 360s and other crazy tricks on a bike lol.

 

Someone needs to build a VR training simulator......

[eagleeye]

So in the mean time I will just have to keep my attitude

in check

 

I feel for you venturevet, but I think you nailed it when you said the above.

[Great White]

It took my matter to the OHP and local Sheriff. The issue seams to be that even with a video an officer has to witness the event if no accident had occurred in order to issue a traffic citation. ......

 

See, the thing is if someone ends up killing me it's not just a traffic offense.

 

Everything from negligence to manslaughter are probable charges.

 

That would make the judge and/or jury very interested in video footage of the event.

 

But for just regular traffic confrontations, tapping the camera on the side of the helmet and informing the hot head "I've got it all on video" is usually enough to make them cower and slink away. It usually goes something like this:

 

 

(I also have an HD dash cam in my truck no that's not me on the video )

 

We all know when we've done something wrong, admitting it is quite another thing. It takes strength of character to admit you're wrong and take responsibility for your actions, those are qualities I find very lacking in society these days.

 

If just the threat of video gets that guy out of my face that's enough, I'm happy with just that outcome and it fully justifies what I spent on the setup. Anything that diffuses or ends a confrontation without a scuffle is worth it to me. I don't care why they go away, just that they go away.

 

 

Defensive riding and controlling your temper are absolutely the best way to ride. Sure, you may not get that satisfying instant release of your anger, but you get out of the situ and on with you life that much sooner. For me it's all about getting home alive, in one piece and able to hug and kiss my wife and daughter.

 

At the end of the day, that's all that really matters.

 

Edited October 15, 2015 by Great White

[cowpuc]

Road rage is crazy stuff,, I bumped into this vid a while ago - a perfect example of a biker handling a situation that could have turned out very differently for the enraged cager who assaulted both the biker and his girl.. Its so amazing to watch the enraged person deflate after the guy explains to him that its all on tape.. This biker shows an amazing amount of restraint..

 

[Flyinfool]

This is about as close as I ever got to road rage

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?72811-She-tried-to-get-me

[djh3]

Not sure if this is the correct place for this move it if it is not.

 

Admitting I am a touch hot headed and coupled with being bi-polar does not help the matter sometimes. I am lucky to have an understanding family and over the years I have learned ways to check myself when my meds just don't do the trick. But man I tell you I am a hair shy of loosing my cool when it comes to the idiots on the road who seam to think a Motorcycle can magically grow wings and fly out of danger or they are blind to anything with less than 4 wheels. I mean come on now I have a stupid bright LED headlight (not pointing high just normal 100ft patern) that has a high frequency pulse. My bike by some is considered obnoxiously load even when just cruising worse if I am accelerating and X 2 if the wife is on and the extra load required more twist.

 

This week alone its been building up with more than a few times I have been pushed out of my lane, pulled out in front of, and even a car merging onto the E-Way when a semi in the left lane prevented me from my normal getting over and a car riding my azz kept me from slowing down. So today I took the wife to get her glasses adjusted and on the way home on a straight no traffic road I slowed down to make a right onto the cross road that has STOP SIGNS and I did not. Just as I got down to 15-20mph and started to lean into the turn this woman from the left stop sign just decides its her time to cross the road right in front of me. I had to lock up my rear and lean deep into the turn and ended up almost 180 in the damp grass with the wife on the back. Somehow the bike stayed upright and she stayed on but with a death grip on my waist that left marks. Prob. More luck than skillfull riding.

 

So I lost my cool popped it in gear and down the road after her I went. down @ the next stop sign I pulled around her and parked my bike in front of her car got off and proceed to inform her of her IQ and some other choice comments mixed with questions about if she was dumb or trying to kill me. Not my brightest moment but it is what it is. So luck have it the sheriff just happened to drive by and notice my parking job and apparent harassment of the driver. He ordered me to cool my jets and move my bike and after him having conversations with me and the driver she pulled off. Luck have it I new the guy and he just gave me the 3rd degree and informed me she said she didn't try to kill me. Also that my ROAD RAGE could be a felony.

 

So How is it some idiot can try and kill me but my *****ing her out over it is a felony.

 

WTF do we do short of flashing beacons and 150db exhaust ?... wait thats illegal also.

 

If you video tape say on a go pro someone doing this does that even hold up in court for at least reckless driving?

 

Soooooo ever had a #%=÷%#! 18 wheeler on the dragon almost kill ya? I did!!!!!!! Tue I rode over from Highlands area. Wife was shopping with a friend so I went for a ride. FIRST freakin right hander Im set for the corner an as I look thru the corner here is a 53ft freakin 18 wheeler that aint even suposed to be on this road comming at me using his lane my lane and the shoulder. Well I dodged right and off the pavement I went with about a 8 inch or more drop down to grass. Luckly I got stopped, kept the pig upright and didnt take a header down the valley. Do you thi,k the azz stopped to see if he killed me? Nope.

But my thanks the to good Lord for looking out after me, also to the good folks that helped me get the bike back up on the road and turned back down the road.

Im done ever riding this road until the law puts these guys in nail or something.as many LEO's as patrol this road and they dont stop these big rigs. They got no reason to be on this road.

Sorry for rant.

[VerntureVet]

It's OK djh3 if anything this is my therapy session for venting this in a constructive way Vs running someone down :-P

[Great White]

It's OK djh3 if anything this is my therapy session for venting this in a constructive way Vs running someone down :-P

 

I'll tell ya what technique has saved me more than once if you're interested.

 

It goes without saying that intersections are a place where you watch everything and expect everyone to do something stupid, but what really gets my antennae up are cars on the side of the road waiting to join traffic or those in the opposite lane stopped and trying to turn left across your lane. Those buggers are setting you up for a t-bone or a bad side swipe.

 

The first thing I do is look for a driver. No driver means it's parked and likely not a threat. I look at it several times as I approach to make sure it is empty and not someone leaned over out of site and friggin with something on the floor or in the dash.

 

Next I look at the positioning of the car. IE: is it in a reasonable spot where a competent driver would stop? Is it poking into the roadway? Is it stopped completely? Is it creeping forward? Is it angled to join traffic or is it positioned to cross? etc. This tells me where the mindset of the driver is.

 

Patiently waiting and paying attention to traffic flow means he's likely to not jump out in front of me. Creeping forward means he's either not paying attention or is in a rush to get somewhere and the risk goes up exponentially that he will cut me off in some way. Only looking in my direction means he's looking to join traffic. Looking back and forth both ways means he's looking to cross traffic.

 

Next thing I try to do is make eye contact with the driver. They can't see my eyes through the dark visor, but I can see theirs. Are they attentively looking at traffic? Are they staring down at their lap? Are they fiddling with a coffee or a GPS or a phone or something else? Do they look like they are talking to someone or yelling (ie: talking on a hands free)? It's more information about where their mind is and whether or not that may jump out in traffic.

 

The next thing I do is run the "what if" questions. What if he cuts right across my path? What if he joins traffic? What is he joins traffic and slows right down in front of me? What if he cuts across my path and freezes to a dead stop when/if he sees me?

 

The "what ifs" effect my plan: What are my escape routes? Do I have enough time to brake before I would hit him? If I do have time, what is my PNR (point of no return, basically the point where braking is no longer an option without hitting him)? Do I try and go around behind him if he keeps pulling out? Do I try to go around in front of him if he stops dead? Is the sidewalk clear and does it look like I could mount the curb if I had to? Is there a center turning lane I can use if I have to and is it clear? Is there oncoming traffic and can I use that lane for an emergency avoidance maneuver? Is the side of the road flat? Is it a ditch? Is it grass? Is it gravel? Is it paved?

 

If I'm totally hooped and there are no options, I look at what i have left. I look for something to sideswipe instead of hit head on. If there is something to sideswipe, is it smooth or broken? I will always side swipe something like a guard rail instead of trees or a semi trailer or anything rough that can catch my legs (I could care less about the bike, it's expendable). On the V, I try to make sure the roll/crash bars will take the hit on a sideswipe and protect my legs if possible. That's why I look for something smooth to slide along vice something that will catch.

 

All this happens in a split second. I will always take the escape route first, the sideswipe second and lastly the t-bone with brakes hard on to cut my speed as much as possible if the choice is not mine to make. I have that priority set down in m y mind before I even get on the bike. It's the logical way to proceed and if I've already made those decision before I get in to the furball it's one less decision to slow my thought process. It's the same principle we learn about ejecting from high speed aircraft with ejection seats: the most important thing is to decide before you go if you have to eject, you will. It saves you those split seconds of decision making that may mean life or death.

 

Believe it or not, just braking to a stop is actually one of the options I try not to choose. I try to turn to my escape route and then brake, being careful to not lock up the brakes. I will straight brake if I have no choice, but stopping in the road means I have to rely on the a-hole behind me paying attention and not slamming me from the rear. I don't like relying on that because I can't see him and can't react if he's coming at me unaware I'm stopped. If I do have to stop dead in the road, the very first thing I do is look at the mirror and if I see absolutely anything that I don't like, the clutch and throttle are coming on and I'm getting out of the way. Even if i have to mount the curb or head down a ditch. It's not such a big deal from a dead stop because I don't have speed working against me to wash the bike out from under me.

 

As an example, this process has saved me in a multi-car pile up scenario. I was driving a car in somewhat of a snowstorm one night. Some drunk a couple cars up in front of us lost control/crossed the double yellow and hit and oncoming car. The domino effect started in front of us. 4 or 5 cars just hammered into each other. with a deep ditch to my right and the oncoming traffic now in a smoking wreck ahead I steered to miss the wreck just in front of me and go it stopped. First thing I did was look in the rearview mirror and all I saw were headlights swiping back and forth in the dark. I knew the a-hole behind me was coming right at me. By this time was nowhere to go in the oncoming lane (wrecks were piling up on that side now and shoving them down the road towards me) so I cranked the wheel and power out towards the ditch. I got the RH front wheel in the ditch and stopped as I was out of options at that point and probably would have rolled the car. The wreck behind me stopped in the place where my car had just been. We got oout and started helping people when the smashing sounds stopped.

 

Later, the RCMP officers who arrived on scene couldn't believe the carnage. It was everywhere. And, smack dab in the middle of the whole mess was my car, completely unscathed. Not a scratch. They actually had to tow cars away from around us before I could even drive out. The RCMP couldn't believe it until I told them the story and what I had done to protect myself and my passengers. Let's just say they were impressed and leave it at that.

 

Edited October 16, 2015 by Great White

[Sailor]

Saw a comment from a guy who said he had switched out his horn for a device that mimics loud gunfire. He said cars pay a lot more attention now. I think he was joking but.........

[BigLenny]

I used to work with a guy that experienced a interesting event. He was a motorcyclist and he and his wife were riding one day when a lady made a mistake and pulled out in front of him and his wife. They almost went to the ditch trying to avoid the lady. This guy was also a tad bit of a hot head as mentioned above. My co-worker then proceeded to make a series of unfortunate decisions. After the scare of almost being hit, instead of sitting and trying to calm down and reminding himself that people make mistakes, the ole "hot head" thing kicked in and bad decision #1 happened. He chased her down as hot heads sometimes do. Then when he cut her off to get her stopped he committed bad decision #2, he got off of his bike and took his helmet off, I repeat, he took his helmet off, and preceded to approach her as she was getting out of her car to apologize to him, and he started down the path of ragingly chewing her out all up in her face. Well, what transpired next was, well, downright hilarious. The female driver proceeded to whip my co-workers a** because she was in stark fear from his aggressiveness. It turns out she was a nationally awarded martial arts trained competitor. She broke his nose and and gave him some other considerable injuries. The whole thing did wind up in court and he had to pay her a settlement because it was decided to be she reacted in self defense. When he started chewing her out he had made an aggressive gesture with his hand that made the woman feel like he was starting to throw a punch. Man, there is nothing worse than getting your hot headed a** whipped in front of your wife. By ANOTHER WOMAN!!!! God, we laughed at him for a while after that. As a matter of fact, I'm still giggling about it right now while I type this. LOL!

[Guest divey]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/alleged-road-rage-showing-van-ramming-biker-caught-on-video-1.3274428

 

Hope this link works. It's out of Windsor, Ontario today and illustrates clearly what can happen when cooler heads DO NOT prevail. It would be easy to instantly knock the cage driver but clearly, the biker has no-one to blame for his misfortune but himself in my view. Although not known for sure, it appears all he had to do was pull over into the slow (right) lane and let the cage go by, hence, no following too close. Lucky he wasn't hurt any more than he was. Doug

 

Warning to innocent ears - Graphic Language on video.

Edited October 16, 2015 by divey
Warning - Graphic Language

[zagger]

"WTF do we do short of flashing beacons and 150db exhaust ?"

 

I'd add a couple of extra bright lights on the front of your bike. For some reason, lots of people can look right at a single headlight and ignore it. Perhaps it is because we are surrounded by reflections of the sun? That's my theory, but who knows. I've had good luck by adding extra lights positioned as far apart as possible. Horns and extra tailpipe noise are pretty useless IMO since the car/truck driver is in front of you, windows rolled up, music playing, kids goofing around, texting, etc. etc. Ever since I started adding extra lights on the front of my bikes I've had virtually zero incidents of being pushed around. Unfair? Yup. But it is what it is - and I prefer to avoid being hit. If they tailgate, I just motion for them to pass or I hit it and leave them far behind in a few seconds.

 

No close calls since I was a teenager, 44 years of riding ago.

zag

[VerntureVet]

@zagger What are you using for intakes stacks?

[Great White]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/alleged-road-rage-showing-van-ramming-biker-caught-on-video-1.3274428

 

Hope this link works. It's out of Windsor, Ontario today and illustrates clearly what can happen when cooler heads DO NOT prevail. It would be easy to instantly knock the cage driver but clearly, the biker has no-one to blame for his misfortune but himself in my view. Although not known for sure, it appears all he had to do was pull over into the slow (right) lane and let the cage go by, hence, no following too close. Lucky he wasn't hurt any more than he was. Doug

 

Warning to innocent ears - Graphic Language on video.

 

Holy crap.

 

So much wrong in that video is beggars the mind.

 

Buddy should have just stopped when the van rear ended him and called the police. The van is wrong in that case no matter what he says.

 

If he drives away, even better. Leaving hte scene of an accident and a whole host of other charges can be levied.

 

But once buddy chases him down, they're both in for several charges.

 

The "high road" is always the right road.

 

Don't even get me started on how buddy was dressed while riding......