VerntureVet Posted October 4, 2015 #1 Posted October 4, 2015 88 VRoyale Question:: Can I just unscrew that line and not use the feed to the front? Anyone know the size plug I need to block that feed off if it will work? Long winded reason. Ok so I get the point of the front and rear brake combo but I have shaved ~250lbs off my bike and the front brakes working with the rear just don't work for my riding style. I took a little spill this AM on my access road. Lucky for me it was on my gravel drive as I turn into my garage @ only 10mph or so. I admit I was in a hurry and was breaking in a turn fairly hard but them front brakes caught hard enough to slide as I leaned. So from what I read its a 30/70 split with the front not coming in until latter in the push. Looking @ the setup there is a hose coming from the rear master that goes into a rigid line. Maybe latter I will link both fronts together but for now I want to make rear rear and front front. My 1st spill over this linked brake thing but not the 1st slide I have had over it on loose gravel road that I travel a lot to get out of the back woods.
Flyinfool Posted October 4, 2015 #2 Posted October 4, 2015 Yours is the same reason that I delinked mine. On the rear master, ideally you want to remove the proportioning valve, plug the hole that the rear line is currently connected to, and then run the rear line to the port that used to go to the front. This will allow the rear brake to respond to your foot without anything else altering the brake pressure for you. Even though you took 250 lbs off of the bike, I would still connect both fronts. with just the one front brake, you have reduced the weight of the bike by 25% and reduced the braking by nearly 50%.
Great White Posted October 4, 2015 #3 Posted October 4, 2015 dropping 250 lbs means it still weighs around 650 lbs. Add a rider and you're looking at around 850 lbs AUW. That's a lot of weight for a bike no matter how you slice it. I've never had a problem of too much brakes on a bike, but not enough brake will exponentially increase the pucker factor.....
VerntureVet Posted October 4, 2015 Author #4 Posted October 4, 2015 LOL pucker factor. My rear and my leg still hurt. I will get around to linking the 2 fronts to not loose braking power next month when I install new copper braid covered hoses. I have had issues with the way this bike brakes from day 1. I have 3 other bikes and this is the only one that has linked rear/front. I do not discount the reason for it nore do I disagree that it is a good design or does well for what it is intended to do. However one the flip side I don't want to retrain how I ride. The Dry weight on My Harley is 661lbs and it does not have linked brakes but it does have IMO better brakes. I can live with slightly diminished braking for a few weeks to avoid planting my butt on the drive again. Ruined a brand new leather and gloves :-( @Flyinfool You have any visual aids and sizes on what I need from the hardware store to do it?
Great White Posted October 4, 2015 #5 Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) Linked brakes were conceived for novice riders. The Yamaha service manual pretty much states so: "The exclusive advantage to this brake system is that the brake operation requires no skill..." http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r618/justonepict/newbiebraker_zps0plnamof.jpg It might not say "novice" or new", but "no skill to operate" says the same thing in different words. But what a new rider would be doing on an 800lb, 1200 cc 100 hp touring bike I'll never know...... As I'm sure you know, there are many riding techniques where you employ the rear brake to improve stability and control. The dynamics of vehicle control between two wheels and four are very different. Bikes need independent control of the rear brake in order to perform certain "advanced" maneuvers. Some guy just stomping on the rear brake and locking hte rear wheel or stomping on it in a panic stop means they need more experience as they havn't yet mastered the "basic" maneuvers. Proportioning valve gut: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?43598-De-linking-brakes-idea-for-83&p=416932#post416932 Edited October 4, 2015 by Great White
VerntureVet Posted October 4, 2015 Author #6 Posted October 4, 2015 Well i took off the valve all together and capped it off. I then moved the rear line to the front port Like @Flyinfool sujested. Yes I did have to MOD the mount for the master to get the stock brake line to connect. The rear brakes feel a little weak compared to my other bikes but at least now I get to control my brake balancing. So does the rear port give more braking than the front port? I just assumed with the prep valve off and capped that the front would get all the pressure.
Great White Posted October 4, 2015 #7 Posted October 4, 2015 The proportioning valve is what limits and distributes pressure. If you've taken it off, you're getting full master cylinder pressure to the caliper. "That's all there is and there ain't no more"......
VerntureVet Posted October 4, 2015 Author #8 Posted October 4, 2015 Well its done and @Great White and @Flyinfool thank you both once again. you both can rest easy and not worry about me not having enough breaks. I took the Yammy down to an associates Hydro shop and he was able to cut the right front break hose and crimp on a standard flange fitting as well as cut and install a fitting on the left side. Installed a T and bled them out. Costed $25 in parts and a 12 pack. I have to admit with them fronts linked that's a lot of break HOLLY I was not use to that on the 1st stop.
dingy Posted October 5, 2015 #9 Posted October 5, 2015 It would have been easier to take the guts out of the proportioning valve, then it is just a straight through housing. Rear line still connects to proportikning valve housing, no change needed. Remove line that runs to front metering valve and plug at rear master cylinder. This will isolate front brake linkage. Front brake plumbing then is tied, either by running new line to front master, or putting a splitter from an RSV or VMax in. Gary
Yammer Dan Posted October 5, 2015 #10 Posted October 5, 2015 I have always claimed I liked the linked system and wouldn't change it but I have sure been thinking. My head keeps telling me I should have been able to stop??? I have never been afraid to stomp on that rear. I don't remember grabbing the front but must have. Without the rear already putting a demand on the front could I have handled it better??? Was doing great til last few feet and I did stop without hitting anything. I spent a lot of years on the old 650s and 750s without the linked system and have been known to pull into places and slide to a stop on purpose just to get the girls to look or pull up behind them and make a lot of noise just to scare them. Wasn't a bit afraid to lock it up . Sorry didn't mean to Hi-Jack thread just still trying to figure out what the **** happened!!!
Great White Posted October 5, 2015 #11 Posted October 5, 2015 From what I've read of your descriptions, sounded like a classic low side from a front end wash out. Either locked up front brake or something on the road (sand, oil, antifreeze, etc) which changed the traction you had. Not all front end washout are from lack of traction sliding the tire out . If traction drops and you've got a handful of front brake it can cause the wheel to lock up and you end up with the perfect storm of a locked front wheel in a lean and reduced available traction. Just guesses though, I wasn't there..... Strange thing is, a low side doesn't usually result in lots of broken bones and such, which seems to have happened to you... Low sides usually just get you lots of rash or maybe a broken collarbone or ankle/wrist. Just bad luck I guess.
Yammer Dan Posted October 5, 2015 #12 Posted October 5, 2015 That's what bugs me so much about thius one. I don't know!! Coming off the bridge when I grabbed rear the different surfaces may have caused the rear to lock up. Once that rear was locked I rode it in a perfect straight line. Must have seen it wasn't going to stop at last second and grabbed a handful of front. It stood up on its nose and tried to throw me. Being stubborn I hung on and it slammed me into pavement at about 40 mph. Thing is it has the Mod to keep the rear from locking up so easy and the front is adjusted til you can grab a handful without locking it?? It seems both locked as soon as I touched them?? Skeers me to think they are that touchy.
Great White Posted October 5, 2015 #13 Posted October 5, 2015 If i had ro place money on it, id say the road surface was somehow contaminted and you just had the poor luck of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. did you low side or high side? low side makes contamination a likely cause. High side would seem to indicate brake lockup on otherwise good road surface, unless it was a loss and sudden regain of traction....
Flyinfool Posted October 5, 2015 #14 Posted October 5, 2015 Dan You say you were just coming off of a bridge. Many bridge transitions have a steel interface that can be very slick. Also if there is a bit of a bump, don't take much, it can shake off that drop of oil that was about to drip and cages with oil leaks. Either or both of these could have made that short slick spot that got the wheels locked up and then it was to late to recover once you were past and traction suddenly came back, but the wheels were already locked. Just another WAG here.
Yammer Dan Posted October 5, 2015 #15 Posted October 5, 2015 The bike bounced off its left side when it decided it couldn't fly!! Right side of bike no damage. And most damage done to me was on left side. 12 broken ribs and broken shoulder. Right side just broken clavical and busted head. At least bleeding on brain was on right side. Low side High side??? I was going in a straight line?? The bridge did have that metal grid filled with blacktop with the grid sticking out of the blacktop. I know this stuff can get slick.Slick surface start it sliding and it just continued?? I DON"T KNOW!!!!:bang head:
jimmyenglish Posted October 6, 2015 #16 Posted October 6, 2015 I'm convinced the linked brakes caused our 15mph crash in 2009. Invisible, silty surface entering a gas station. Front wheel locked and it was over. Sure did hurt! Delinked after that trip. Bike is way better.
VerntureVet Posted October 6, 2015 Author #17 Posted October 6, 2015 I'm with you Jimmy. It's said and done on mine. I do wish it had a little more bite on the rear than it does but its nothing I can't live with intill i get some better disks, calipers, and masters. I do kinda dig the fronts being linked once I got use to the extra braking power.
Flyinfool Posted October 6, 2015 #18 Posted October 6, 2015 Put HH pads on the rear and you will be able to easily lock the rear wheel if you wish. The OEM organic pads do leave something to be desired.
garyS-NJ Posted August 6, 2016 #19 Posted August 6, 2016 Yours is the same reason that I delinked mine. On the rear master, ideally you want to remove the proportioning valve, plug the hole that the rear line is currently connected to, and then run the rear line to the port that used to go to the front. This will allow the rear brake to respond to your foot without anything else altering the brake pressure for you. Even though you took 250 lbs off of the bike, I would still connect both fronts. with just the one front brake, you have reduced the weight of the bike by 25% and reduced the braking by nearly 50%. Why move the rear brake line to where the front was?? I delinked by pluggi,g the rear master where the fro t line was and then adding a second front line on the front master to source the left caliper. On the team master, I ditched the proportionong valve and put the rear line on that master cylinder port. Of think that when the rear master is actuated the pressure is same on either port. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
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