splitting the front/rear brakes and removing antidive

[garyS-NJ]

I haven't ridden my new old '84 xvz12D yet but read somewhere that the braking can be improved by splitting the front/rear brakes (re-plumb so the lever controls both front discs and the foot only controls the rear wheel) and also removing antidive connection on the front calipers.. comments or links??

[GaryZ]

This is one of those subjects that can stir up the troops

 

I can tell you that I de-linked my '85 and it still has the original brakes.

My reason was that I wanted to have similar brake function to my sport bike

I did not feel safe going down my daughter's gravel driveway

and I disliked the "dead" feel of the linked front brake

 

I now have a '92 VR with the stock linked brakes and I can tell you this;

I did not feel safe going down my daughter's gravel driveway

and I disliked the "dead" feel of the linked front brake

 

I have rode the '92 for about 5k miles thinking I might get used to the linked brakes.

The only thing that has happened is I have worn out the right front pads!

 

I like and I want lots of front brake action and feedback on my right hand.

If you have the same need . . . I recommend that you de-link the brakes.

[Prairiehammer]

"Delinking"

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/search.php?searchid=1426234

[camos]

There are valid reasons to delink the brakes, or not, most of which are up to personal preference.

 

Linked brakes do not necessarily feel dead. That is caused by stuck or sticky pistons and possibly other reasons. Delinking does overcome the stickiness to some degree but cleaning the pistons will do the same or better. Brakes can also feel dead if there is an airlock in the system. Depending on where the air is there may not be much apparent sponginess, just a hard unmoving pedal with little to no braking power.

 

One of the brakes on my 89 VR was not releasing very well so I cleaned the pistons and to my surprise they worked about 50% better. That's one of the reasons I came up with the above theory.

[garyS-NJ]

done deal, I'm going to split the front and rear brakes because I wouldn't want to worry about gravel or riding in a grass field.. and I might want to do wheel stands. I also read that it will greatly simplify bleeding the brakes. And I wouldn';t want one master cylinder locking up both wheels.. one time I had a bad rear caliper or cylinder and I just pulled that caliper on the road to get home..

 

and any comments on taking off the anti dive?

[Great White]

I can't stand the linked brakes. When the bike goes down for winter work, thats the first thing going in the garbage bin. It prevents me from using just the rear brake for many techniques. Most especially on a big top heavy bike like this: low speed handling.

 

I also do not like the front brake "feel" of only one caliper on brake lever activation. Never inspires confindence and you have to engage the foot brake to get full front braking action anyways. Except now you have to regulate both the lever and the foot brake just to not dump the front end while both are giving you very different feed back cues.

 

linked brakes might have some minimal advantage if you're an inexperienced rider, but if you have any time or training under your belt, independant front and rear brakes are the way to go.

 

As gary mentioned, linked brakes are also crap on loose surfaces. Theres no argueing that fact. You're always playing with a front end wash out as its hard to regulate the foot pressure so that you get enough rear without locking the front. More so if you're in a turn.

 

Others will differ on the subject. Thats fine. Everyone is entitled to thier own opinion.

 

Make your own decisions .

 

Edited September 16, 2015 by Great White

[syscrusher]

Like the Nike commercial: "Just Do It"!

Unlink the brakes. And get Speed Bleeders.

[camos]

I also read that it will greatly simplify bleeding the brakes.

Bleeding the brakes is really easy on the MKII because it has a bleeder valve at the steering head. I don't think the MKI has one there but it should not be too difficult to put one in. In any case, if you de-link then that bleeder won't be necessary.

 

and any comments on taking off the anti dive?

Ummm, no, started to tell you about the anti-dives on the MKII which are electric but remembered you have a MKI which is hydraulic. I think you can get a bypass plate from Skydoc_17 but not really sure about that.

[garyS-NJ]

Linked brakes and anti dive connection are two issues. I'll try again to take a look at Kevin's link above for delinking (not opening on my phone now) but when removing the brake line from rear pedal to front wheel is there hardware to be Frankenstein ed on? Also the antidive, is it good to keep with the delinking brakes? I guess it just takes the sudden surge of brake pressure and smooths it out.

[syscrusher]

I am not really sure about the anti-dives that are linked to the brakes hydraulically. I think that they stop fork oil from being displaced in the lowermost section of the fork which stiffens up the action and prevents further movement (diving). On the Gen 1.2 electric anti-dives they are very much a weak point of the fork since the plastic part holding the solenoid can be broken off easily and has the effect of punching a hole in the fork.

Skydoc's plates are widely referred to as "bypass" but they actually are a cutoff.

With the plates installed the forks behave constantly as though a diving condition has been sensed, blocking the flow of fork oil in the lowermost section.

 

Here's an example of hydraulic anti-dives that have just been capped with an adjustable activator instead:

 

http://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/anti-dive-gotta-go.31622/#post-273680

[Wizard765]

Skydoc_17 sells a kit that replaces all your brake lines with stainless wrapped lines and the necessary hardware to delink your brakes.. The steel wrapped lines make a huge difference in braking on the Mk1s

[GaryZ]

Linked brakes do not necessarily feel dead.

 

Yes, when one brake disk is trying to slow or stop an 800 lb. motorcycle, that brake feels very weak.

I find myself applying the brake and then moving my grip out to the end of the lever for more leverage.

 

My '85 uses a slightly modified Kawasaki splitter to connect the front brake master cylinder to both front brakes.

The lines were custom made by a hose shop in OKC.

I plan on redoing this with two separate brake lines from the master to each disk.

This worked really well on my adventure Ninja. I picked the lines up on-line from a company in Canada.

Tell them the length, the ends, and the orientation of the ends. Both lines cost about what one line would cost in OKC.

 

I did not mention my mods to the anti-dive;

I put Progressive fork springs in the '85, disconnected and capped the anti-dive devices.

The Progressives are a significant improvement to fork action, and the anti-dives on a Gen 1 MKI make the front brake feel spongy.

Edited September 16, 2015 by GaryZ

[garyS-NJ]

Syscrusher, do you know the correct thread to order my speedbleeders??

 

Like the Nike commercial: "Just Do It"!

Unlink the brakes. And get Speed Bleeders.

[garyS-NJ]

Hey Kevin, that Link isn't working for me.. I'll search but can you help?

 

"Delinking"

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/search.php?searchid=1426234

[Prairiehammer]

Sorry. It worked yesterday, but not today. I dunno.

Anyway, try this:

 

[h=1]=8&childforums=1&type[]=1"]Search:[/h] Type: Posts; Keyword(s): delinking; Forum = First Generation Venture Tech Talk and child forums; Excluded Forums not On Ebay Listings

[syscrusher]

Syscrusher, do you know the correct thread to order my speedbleeders??

 

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?87151-Speed-Bleeders-What-size&highlight=speed+bleeder

[dingy]

Current ad on Ebay, I have bought from this seller several times with good experience.

 

This is for a set of 4 bleeders, includes clutch slave also.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Brake-Clutch-Speed-Bleeders-Venture-Royale-XVZ1300-XV1200-/271978359208?hash=item3f532c69a8

 

Gary

[greg_in_london]

I delinked years ago and never regretted it, but I did buy a larger diameter front master cylinder (5/8" /14mm rather than 1/2"/13mm) to cope with the extra cylinder.

 

I have not touched the anti-dive and have never seen a reason to. With stainless hosing the lever isn't spongey, though I can't say if the anti-dive actually does much ;-)

[garyS-NJ]

Greg_in_london can you say which front brake master cylinders I could swap in?? Types of bikes year male models.... I notice mine also has a fluid level sensor.

[garyS-NJ]

Thanks gary.. I found them on amazon for $12/pair. All the sb8125L. Are the L's too long for brakes or too short for the clutch??

[lonestarmedic]

Delinking is not too bad. Anti-dive on the hydraulic ones are tougher than on my 1986 with the electric solenoids.

 

I understand the brake control feeling. I wanted front only and rear only for a lot of personal reasons. And I put on R1 calipers. I am satisfied with the result. Front pulls down straight and true when I want. Rear adds what it needs and will correctly trail brake in the corners.