Gas tank in Hard Saddle Bags

[VerntureVet]

May be a dumb idea but I already relocated my CLASS and battery to the left saddle bag. I would love to move the battery under the seat where the gas tank is instead and free up some room under the upper cover for some custom gauges.

 

I have a 2 gallon fuel cell that would fit perfect in the right saddle bag and was wondering it the fuel pump would work well enough to pull the gas from that low. Just ask because as it sits the stock petcock is above the tank and gas kinda flows down hill to it.

 

If not I have also thought about moving the stock pump and or installing an in tank pump that can get the fuel moving up.

[camos]

May be a dumb idea but I already relocated my CLASS and battery to the left saddle bag. I would love to move the battery under the seat where the gas tank is instead and free up some room under the upper cover for some custom gauges.

If you have already moved the battery to the saddlebag then why move it under the seat? I've been intrigued by the idea of moving the battery behind the chin fairing. With the OEM position there is not quite enough room but it would not be too difficult to extend the chin mounts to get more room. Then there is the possibility of getting a narrower battery. Some of the newer technology batteries can be installed in any position which may make it easier to find something that will fit there.

 

The standard Ventures did not come with a CLASS, just had a valve to pump up the suspension so you could get rid of that and get your saddlebag back.

 

I have a 2 gallon fuel cell that would fit perfect in the right saddle bag and was wondering it the fuel pump would work well enough to pull the gas from that low. Just ask because as it sits the stock petcock is above the tank and gas kinda flows down hill to it.

 

If not I have also thought about moving the stock pump and or installing an in tank pump that can get the fuel moving up.

Going from memory, which for me is rarely a good idea, the petcock is a little below the bottom of the saddlebag except when the bike is leaning over. As long as there is a downhill flow to the pump intake then it probably would not be affected much by lowering the gas tank. That said, two gallons of fuel is on the inadequate side if you ever wanted to go anywhere. As it is with 5 gallons there is only enough for about a 3/4 day ride or less if there are any freeways involved.

[VerntureVet]

In short I want to install the 2 fuel cells that when fully topped off are 2.4 gallons each. However the fuel outlet for the cells is on the top. I know the fuel pump puts out ~3psi if I recall so I was wondering if that was enough to draw from the top of the cells.

 

I refuse to put the cells in the saddle bags with any other electrical as even venting the cells out of the box its still dangerous to have compressors and battery in the same closed area.

 

So basically I moved the battery to make room for gauges and relocating the front cowling electronics. Now I want to move the honking ass tank and use the extra room to move even more crap around. There is a lot of crap in the front cowling than just needs a new home.

 

P.S. I have already been asked why I don't just buy a different bike. more suited to my vision. My only answer is that it would not be the same just to buy it when I got this one so cheap and have all but $800 into it. I savaged just about every thing I have done so far.

[camos]

In short I want to install the 2 fuel cells that when fully topped off are 2.4 gallons each. However the fuel outlet for the cells is on the top. I know the fuel pump puts out ~3psi if I recall so I was wondering if that was enough to draw from the top of the cells.

So one cell on each side or both in one? Why not just go ahead? Don't remove the tank, mount the cells and try it, then you will know. Probably better off adding a pump for each cell.

 

I refuse to put the cells in the saddle bags with any other electrical as even venting the cells out of the box its still dangerous to have compressors and battery in the same closed area.

 

So basically I moved the battery to make room for gauges and relocating the front cowling electronics. Now I want to move the honking ass tank and use the extra room to move even more crap around. There is a lot of crap in the front cowling than just needs a new home.

There is a thread somewhere that describes making an intake manifold for the carbs so the air box can be removed. Seems to me there is not very much in the fairing that needs to be kept.

 

P.S. I have already been asked why I don't just buy a different bike. more suited to my vision. My only answer is that it would not be the same just to buy it when I got this one so cheap and have all but $800 into it. I savaged just about every thing I have done so far.

Keep to your plan, there are several others who have successfully accomplished what you are doing.

 

Did you get my PM?

[VerntureVet]

 

Did you get my PM?

 

Sorry musta missed it I PMed you back.

 

The plan is to put one on each side. Because the draw tube would be on top the tanks could never cross feed so one running empty could cause it to suck air. I figured I would put a shutoff valve on both run on one use the other as a reserve. Guess I didn't consider the ease of testing this would be as simple as connecting it and swapping a hose. Thanks for pointing that out sometimes I overlook the simplest concepts in my brain storming.

 

As for long rides I have already done over 300 mile hops between stops. I have this nifty 5 gallon tank with a bottom of tank connection that fit in the upper trunk when it was on the bike. It just will not fit in the side saddles. I thought about making a mount for it to go behind the seat once I iron out these other MODS.

 

Here are some pics of the bikes life cycle since I got it.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?109597-88-Venture-Royale-Bobber-Project

 

this is the current look

 

[camos]

this is the current look

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]101756[/ATTACH]

Still looks unmistakably like a Venture.

Well, early days.

 

Is the engine case in the pic that hammered copper paint? I've been thinking of using that paint for some accents on the 90 VR.

[VerntureVet]

Still looks unmistakably like a Venture.

Well, early days.

 

Is the engine case in the pic that hammered copper paint? I've been thinking of using that paint for some accents on the 90 VR.

 

Rustolium Aged Copper 1200 degree From Menards. The ridged thing on the side of the jugs and the ridges on the valve covers, and the ridges on the radiator as well as all the pin striping and various other things like the hand grips is 1/4 in copper foil from Hobby Lobby in the stained glass area set on with its stick back side of the foil tape lightly brushed with high temp rated epoxy. I also put on some 20thou copper plate on as many spots I could with ease like the plastic covers over the rear break and fuel pump.

 

The paint is a pain in the azz to put on the chromed parts and and the exhaust pipes. Even the not chromed parts. You have to rough sand what you want to pain with ~220 and then smooth it out with 400. You have to get ALL of the old clear coat on the parts off down to the metal. Then you HAVE TO de-grease/wax and clean with a solvent. Once the paint is dry (1-2 hours) You will want to start to cure it. The engine does not get hot enough to get a solid cure on some parts just by running the engine. I used a heat gun set to 200 and kept it in the areas painted for a good 5 minutes then moved to another area. Let it cool and repeated @ 400. let it cool and then took the bike on a nice hour long ride. MOST of the pain held up good after that but there are a few areas that need redone to be perfect.

 

I did the paint because I just finished making some Copper Sulfate Electrolyte for electroplating aluminum and steel parts. Once snow hits the ground (because I ride until the snow stops me) I will be pulling the engine to give it a good gloss black high temp paint job and fix my clunky shift pins. The parts that I like painted will get taken off and copper electroplated and treated for a more natural copper look.

[camos]

Rustolium Aged Copper 1200 degree From Menards. The ridged thing on the side of the jugs and the ridges on the valve covers, and the ridges on the radiator as well as all the pin striping and various other things like the hand grips is 1/4 in copper foil from Hobby Lobby in the stained glass area set on with its stick back side of the foil tape lightly brushed with high temp rated epoxy. I also put on some 20thou copper plate on as many spots I could with ease like the plastic covers over the rear break and fuel pump.

Good ideas. Thanks, I'll keep them in mind when I get to that project.

[VerntureVet]

Just a fast update. The top feed fuel cell has been in for over a week now. The fuel pump has no issue so far and just in case I got a back up from the Motorcycle Grave Yard and tossed it in the hard bag.

 

Time to install the other one on the other side and work out how to connect them to equalize so one does not run dry and suck air. I was thinking about tapping the bottom of the tanks and connecting them with a 1/4 in copper line. But I fear the up and over the drive will still keep it from being = level under the highest part of the line.

[Great White]

Just a fast update. The top feed fuel cell has been in for over a week now. The fuel pump has no issue so far and just in case I got a back up from the Motorcycle Grave Yard and tossed it in the hard bag.

 

Time to install the other one on the other side and work out how to connect them to equalize so one does not run dry and suck air. I was thinking about tapping the bottom of the tanks and connecting them with a 1/4 in copper line. But I fear the up and over the drive will still keep it from being = level under the highest part of the line.

 

The line will have to be the lowest point in the fuel system if you want it to level the fuel in the tanks to empty.

 

I would suggest you run a sump line from each tank to a "y" connection and then to the fuel pump.

 

It should level the fuel before the "y" and it will draw from both tanks....

[VerntureVet]

 

It should level the fuel before the "y" and it will draw from both tanks....

 

That was what my 1st though was to run the feed lines with = length hose to a Y to under the stock tank (it will be removed once testing is positive.) Then feed it to the pump. What my fear was that one tank would drain all the way causing air to get sucked from an empty tank. I guess next weekend I will install the other cell and the Y setup like you suggested but add a shutoff valve b4 the Y on each line just in case. I would hate to have to only run one tank and then manually switch over after only 2.5 gallons. that would mean I would have to stop and turn valves every 60-80 miles to keep moving.

 

Looks like shutoffs and a Y are the plan for next weekend. I will post back after I go for a nice ride and see if the tanks draw (=)

[Great White]

As long as the "y" (or preferably the pump) are the lowest point in the system, it won't suck air. At least not until both tanks are empty. The "Y" will allow the levels in the tanks to equalize. When one goes dry, the other will at the same time.

 

It would be best to have the pump at the lowest point. Pumps push fuel fine but have to work harder to pull. Harder yet if they have to pull and push. If it's the lowest point, you'll always have a positive pressure at the pump inlet. This will make the pump very happy!

 

Same thing we do when we put a lift pump in a diesel fuel system. It's best to have the pump as a low point so it doesn't have to pull hard and self primes. I prefer to sump my tanks instead of pulling from the stock fuel pickup tube and I use a pureflow raptor to feed my diesel (IE: expensive heavy duty lift pump). Gassers mount them in the tank so it only has to push and can use the fuel as a cooling medium for the motor.

 

I also haven't seen your "saddle bag tank" system, but I would suggest you look at putting a baffle or two in the tank if it's just a big open container and you don't already have some in there. This will keep the fuel from sloshing away from the pick up point on acceleration, braking and turning. Important when you're getting down to lower levels in the tank and on a bike where these forces have a large effect on "undamped" fuel.

 

Edited September 21, 2015 by Great White

[VerntureVet]

Thanks Great white I was not sure if the Y would keep the tanks (=) because the fuel outlet is on top of the tank with a copper hose running to what I can best describe as a hump @ the bottom. There are some plates in it with 3/4in holes @ the bottom. The low spot has a 4x4 box around it with 1/2 in holes on each side. I will take pics of the install when its done looking clean and not a hodge podge experiment.

 

The pump is the stock pump and location even the bottom of the cell is higher than the pump still. If I cant get the cells to equalize with the top feed I will just have to braze on a fitting in the hump @ the bottom.

 

This will all enable me to keep riding once I get the tank off. I still have no car and cooler weather is sneaking in on us. I will ride untill snow hits the ground and then I am limited to work and groceries on my road legal Pit bike.

 

[Great White]

Ah, top draw pickup is a different story. You'll need a balance tube on the bottom of the tanks. You'll have to "loop it" so the line is the lowest point. You can have a "hump" in the balance line, but it will still have to be lower than the level of the tank. The other problem is if you get an air bubble in the "hump" part your balance line will be ineffective. The bubble won't move out of the hump and the line won't level the fuel...

Edited September 23, 2015 by Great White

[camos]

I was thinking about tapping the bottom of the tanks and connecting them with a 1/4 in copper line. But I fear the up and over the drive will still keep it from being = level under the highest part of the line.

Remember, you're planning on removing the OEM gas tank anyway. Bet you could find a route for the equalizer through just behind it.

[VerntureVet]

Actually after taking off the tank last night I may have found a solution. Just going to mount some flex guard hose like the brake line has onto the drive shaft and make the crossing there.