Looking for advice

[kapebretoner]

i am out looking for a motorcycle. I have 3 in mind.

1. 1983 yamaha 1200 yamaha venture royale 65,000 kms

2. 1985 yamaha 1200 venture royale 72,000 kms

3. 1989 yamaha 1300 venture royale 91,000 kms

 

what problems should i be looking out for on these bikes.

[DragonRider]

On the 83 there is the infamous 2nd gear problem, usually occurs around 65,000 miles, check to see if it has been fixed or upgraded before you buy, you dont wont to have to repair a 2nd gear problem on a new to you bike. I had it happen to me, after it was fixed the 83 was flawless.

 

The 85 could have the same problem, they rectified it in the middle of the run for 1985, so you would have to do a vin # check to see if it is updated.

 

The 89, if it runs, looks good and everything works, that would be the way to go, they had all the bugs ironed out in mid 85.

 

Welcome to the group, you will like it here, I have been a member since 2005. There are some crazies here, but they are harmless.......................

[XV1100SE]

I've never owned a 1st Gen but I agree...the '89 would be the way to go. Even though it has the most mileage of the three, there is lots of life left in it. Being 4 cylinders, liquid cooled... will last you a long time as long as regular maintenance has been kept up.

 

On the 2nd gear issue...if a shop did the repair they put a mark on the outside of the casing. A 1st Gen owner can verify and tell you where to look.

[Yammer Dan]

Are they Standards or Royales?? The Royale has a some extras that are nice. Sound system and air ride. The 89 would have both I think. The 83s also had a weak frame. If the 85 was past that dreaded Vin# and a Royale I would have to look close at it. It was the last of the 1200 engines

[cowpuc]

Another issue to consider has to do with the brakes.. The early models (83/84 - not sure on the 85) did not hold the option for upgrading to better calipers/rotors - with out swapping forks,, your kinda stuck with - shall we say - iffy brakes.. That 89 would be the ticket for an upgrade. On all the bikes you are looking at, I would plan on dropping in a set of Progressive front springs and doing a fork oil change.. I have noticed thru the years that the original springs from Yamaha really cant take even having one of these scoots being stored for to long and not being lifted for storage without sacking the springs.. I would drop the air out of the front boingers, sit on the bike and bounce it and watch where the fork legs come to a stop all while also feeling for hydraulic dampening (making sure there is fluid even in the forks). Give em a few good bounces and then check the fork seals for leakage - do it with all of them just to make sure your not also into a fork seal rebuild.. I have had to rebuild a number of them - mainly due to sacked springs and/or worn fork bushings..

Personally,,, I really like the ease of rear tire swapping on the 83's (85's would be the same).. I know the 89 will take a little more doings to get the rear tire off (not that big a deal if your in a garage with tools BUT - tires dont always go flat in those places, at least for me.. Also, I am really partial to the slimmer sportiness of the 83's rear end - personal preference..

The 83's also came with a plastic impeller in the water pump from Mom Yam.. Its a must do to update it with the aluminum one if it hasnt been done. Also the 83's came with a Stator issue that caused some issues.. There was an updated stator cooler for them that consisted of a crank bolt with a small orvice in it and a splash plate to install into the stator cover. I am almost positive that the 85's and the 89's had neither of these issues (not sure - have only ridden 83/84's).

I have owned a number of the 83/84's and have never really had a good clutch. I am almost positive that the 89 had a diaphram clutch spring instead of "valve" springs for the pressure plate. Personally I think that is awesome.

Another thing I would look at on any and all would be the fuse panel under the battery cover that sets between your legs if you are setting on the scoot.. Those things got pretty nasty over time.. May wanna check to see if the area is hacked up real bad.

Also take a really close look at the rubber valve cover gaskets on the top of the engine.. You will notice a half moon of rubber gasket at the end of the cams. If you look closely at them you can probably tell whether or not the scoot has ever had the valves done in it. I have never owned one that has actually had this done - I usually buy em cheap and ride em till they drop (still always managed to get over 200k out of em) but know for a fact that valve clearance check is part of the OEM maintenance schedule and it would be kinda cool to own one that someone actually took the time to follow the schedule.

May also want to take a peek under the scoots and take a look at the condition of the exhaust collectors (where the pipes all come together into a "box").. I have beat the living daylights out of all mine - using them as skid plates - thru the years, welded - glued - covered up holes with tin cans and screws to keep em from leaking. Never really bothered me much.. Being fair to a perspective buyer such as yourself though,, I have heard from a number of sources (all here on our wonderful site) that those collectors are hard to come by in decent shape..

All the other advice you heard before mine is worthy advice, especially the part about there being a number of harmless crazies around here.. I hope you are able to find a Venture to your liking, become a full fledged member here, take full advantage of all the great knowledge and fun around here and eventually find out first hand exactly who those crazy's are!!

Puc

[eagleeye]

All very good advice, but with it being September now, I would not be in a big hurry to buy. As you more than likely know, this is a good time to get your best deal, (toward the end of northern riding season) and maybe find one with lower miles/kilometers.

[syscrusher]

 

Also take a really close look at the rubber valve cover gaskets on the top of the engine.. You will notice a half moon of rubber gasket at the end of the cams. If you look closely at them you can probably tell whether or not the scoot has ever had the valves done in it. I have never owned one that has actually had this done - I usually buy em cheap and ride em till they drop (still always managed to get over 200k out of em) but know for a fact that valve clearance check is part of the OEM maintenance schedule and it would be kinda cool to own one that someone actually took the time to follow the schedule.

May also want to take a peek under the scoots and take a look at the condition of the exhaust collectors (where the pipes all come together into a "box").. I have beat the living daylights out of all mine - using them as skid plates - thru the years, welded - glued - covered up holes with tin cans and screws to keep em from leaking. Never really bothered me much.. Being fair to a perspective buyer such as yourself though,, I have heard from a number of sources (all here on our wonderful site) that those collectors are hard to come by in decent shape..

Puc

 

Puc, are you saying that with a million miles of riding 1st Gens you have NEVER done the valve shims?

 

There is a new collector available, pretty slick stainless, easy to install, and high performance one from Mark McDade (Mark 760-948-1346).

About $366 shipped. http://marksperformance.com

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?96690-exhaust-collector-options

[cowpuc]

Puc, are you saying that with a million miles of riding 1st Gens you have NEVER done the valve shims?

 

There is a new collector available, pretty slick stainless, easy to install, and high performance one from Mark McDade (Mark 760-948-1346).

About $366 shipped. http://marksperformance.com

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?96690-exhaust-collector-options

 

Yep @syscrusher - shameful as it sounds and as embarrassing as it is - that is exactly what I am saying.. Out of the 5 1st Gens (including Tweeks) that I have worn out, with the accumulated total of 1 million plus miles (note this is NOT 1 million miles on 1 bike - however, the "Blonde" side covers on Tweeks are from my first one - those side covers are a keepsake from my first one that have faithfully served thru all 5 bikes and those do have over a million miles on them). I have yet to re-shim the valves on any of them. I will add here also that number 3 (still sitting out back under a cover and now a "parts bike) did loose total compression on the number 4 cylinder. Bought a replacement 1st Gen for 750 bucks and never tore #3 down and inspected it but I do believe the compression loss was valve related.

I purchased them all used, all of them with 38k miles or under on them in either non running or ill running condition on the cheap. The highest price that I paid for one (the first one) was 1200 dollars out of an estate sale back in 87, it had 20k on it, was an 84 Blonde Royale that my kids named Beeg. A one owner bike whose original owner had ridden out the stator on, he (the P.O.) had dismantled her and, regretfully, had passed away during the process of repair - she came to me in pieces. Beeg became a very loved part of our family, spent her life toting my children one at a time and I all over the country, sleeping under the stars from Nova Scotia to the west coast and retired at 240k.

You may be interested in this also. Besides serving as a very inexpensive test ground for just how far will one of these 1st Gens go without valve maintenance, that 84 also served the same point concerning the second gear issue. She lost second gear at just under 40k and taught me first hand that I could rely on her even with no second gear (just "short shift" (means skip a gear in the shift pattern)). A valuable lesson for a person like me looking to tour the country for a very small amount of cash with little kids in tow.

In all fairness, I am not sure if any of the bikes P.O.'s went to the bother of doing the valves before I purchased them. All five bikes made it well into 200k plus miles, one of the 5 had a catastrophic crank failure (pretty rare honestly) at 265k. 3 of them lost second gear (Tweeks is one of those three too) pre-50k but, like the valve shimming, I never repaired a second gear in any of them either - always did the short shift to termination.

More info that might be of interest to you: I always carry a spare fuel pump but only number 4 ever took advantage of a highway pump change while touring and finished out the last 10k of a 20k ride with the spare fuel pump tie wrapped toward the rear of its passengers left floor board - I have bench cleaned a number of points in the pumps though. All of them had to have Progressive springs in the forks - most being sacked from just sitting in storage with the weight of the scoot on them. Tweeks is the highest mileage of all 5 with just over 300k on her BUT, she has also been the most problematic with "little things" happening all the time - suspect age has to do with it but, that is why we call her Tweeks. Knock on wood, I have never experienced a broken frame, all have had that familiar "wobble" at around 38 mph, have yet to own one with a good clutch (one that would hold if you nailed it in 4th gear at 4500 rpm with two up and loaded down). I have always changed my oils at discoloration instead of miles, use cheap 20/50 non synthetic oils - never any particular brand (lots of Super Tech from Walmart while traveling cross country - the old oil change in the parking lot routine) - dont always do the filters when on the road but do always keep clear oil em. I dont wash my Ventures, I catch a LOT of heat for it from my neighbors who ride with me but have always held closely my own personal belief that I would rather see em dirty than be forcing water into places it dont belong - I KNOW - sounds crazy but consider the source..

All that said,, I have a theory about my success in undermining the scheduled valve maintenance on these scoots.. I lug them as little as possible and tend to move right along when touring.. A lesson I learned at a very early age about chain drive cam scoots was do your engine a favor and DO NOT LUG EM.. A lesson learned from having to rebuild my early model 350 Honda's (you lug - you loose your cam chain followers, chain and even jugs from chain slap against the cylinders).. I know they are totally different motors then our V-4's but old habits die hard and keeping them spun up in "non lugging" mode has been part of my life (except for push rod motors)...

[syscrusher]

Valuable info indeed!

A local mechanic friend told me the valves only need to be done once at about 25K or so. After that I wouldn't see anything significant when checking them.

At 265K you would be more than 10 valve adjustments behind most people would say.

My gen 1.2 has just 30K now. I plan to do an adjustment sometime this winter and then maybe not again for a while.

I should call it Tweaks for all of the work I've had to do to it already at it's young age of 22.

You must be really rapping out first to avoid lugging third!