Ignitech ignition box is in and C.O.P. conversion done

[lonestarmedic]

Dropped in the Ignitech box and updated the programming. Then changed out the coils and wires for the coil on plug system. Lot of plusses and a few minuses here. Starts easily and the box has a setting for how many revolutions the motor can make before spark is applied. Allows it to spin up a bit. I have tried one and two so far. Two is good when hot but sounds weird. The box is set for a Vmax ignition curve. About 3500 rpm in second gear and the bike has a personality change. Twist it hard and stay above 4500 rpm and it feels like it wants to rip asphalt off the road! From 2000-3000 it feels a touch flat. I suspect I need to move the advance curve down the rpm scale a bit. Get a bit more at lower rpm. There is a bit of tachometer fluctuation when you romp it hard then get off the throttle suddenly. It does a drop from 4k-2k. Just the tach not the motor. Fuel mileage is not known yet. Will report that after a few tanks. Idle is a bit lumpier than stock. Probably due to a couple things. The Vmax advance curve. And the way I am feeding vacuum to the map sensor. I tied all 4 vacuum ports together to the sensor. Experiment to smooth out the pulsing. And I do have the factory restrictor in. I still may have a slight obstruction in my carburetor idle circuits. Or simply need to sync the carbs. My carb sync tool is out of whack.

 

Installed Ignitech on the coil rack. It fits right between the coil mounting ears!! Put the MAP sensor next to it. I access the programming port from under the right front corner of fairing, just behind the fork. I did not want it on top of the air filter. I have a pair of fuse panels there. And it would mean a huge pile of wires going up. And I put a heat shield under the coil plate. Aluminum with a couple pieces of the reflective duct foil on it. Was thinking of a discussion on heat off the heads and the removal of the factory plastic shields. So said what the heck.

 

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Got a bunch more pictures but you get the idea.

[dna9656]

Hey Lonestar!

I recently did the ignitec thing. I put the ignitec in the l/h fairing with map sensor, starts up fine! I did the coil over plugs thing too, very happy! I haven't messed with the programming that Gary did, seems to run great except that my pilot circuits (carbs) are plugged so there is no sense in trying to "fix" it until the carbs are right.

Congrats of the up grade!

D

Edited September 6, 2015 by dna9656

[KISA]

To smooth pulsations it won't turn out. It is better to establish TPS. And it is even simpler to connect standard boost-sensor.

About an ignition chart - I wrote the letter to Ignitech about 3 weeks ago. I asked them to modify an ignition chart according to service manual. So far the answer isn't present.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?40414-Aftermarket-TCI-available!/page26

[KISA]

Guys, write the collective letter to Ignitech. Ask to make a correct chart of ignition. Now there isn't enough power on average turns. An incorrect scale of pressure for a standard sensor.

[frankd]

I wonder if we'd be better off if we put our heads together and figured a way to TPS signal? A potentiometer hooked to a throttle cable or the a sensor from a drive by wire bike. THen we could eliminate the MAP sensor that doesn't work quite right. Maybe then I could put the Ignitech back in line--I reconnected the TCI module when I was unhappy with the advance curve for the Ignitech.

 

Something else I was going to do but haven't yet is to map out the vacuum advance curve for the OEM TCI.

[KISA]

V88 initially takes a signal from standard IAP. There is no need to connect separate MAP a sensor as in the v80 version.

Ignitech is made for work with TPS. I went 3 months with TPS, everything was fine, besides, that this knot took a lot of place. Now I connected standard IAP. Fluctuations of pressure aren't present. But I don't accept the range of depression (kPa). It wrong.

[syscrusher]

Those are nice looking braided shields on the connectors Medic.

Did you buy a kit from someone?

 

If I have the original Digital TCI they just wire to the original coil inputs, right?

[cimmer]

Doesnt the service manual have the curve listed in it as a diagram. I found this one in there but not sure if it is of much help. I also have the ignitech system with COP installed. I am happy with the system but yes it does seem to be lacking in the 2000 to 3000 RPM range and I am also trying to see why I am loosing spark at times when just at a constant cruise in the 3000 to 4000 RPM range. I am not sure if I have a bad coil or connector or just what at this time as I havent had a lot of free time to troubleshoot it. I did make my own new connectors and cables and it doesnt happen constantly so it is a tough one to find plus it seems the bike has to be warmed up to normal operating temps for it to occur.

Rick F.

ignition advance.pdf

[KISA]

It turns out that the range of discharge from 101kPa to 33kPa is not needed.

[lonestarmedic]

The 3K-4K Tachometer dropout seems to be pretty common. I have the same problem. Seems to be just my tach, not my ignition. Unless it is so sudden my butt cannot feel a couple dropped sparks.

 

Doesnt the service manual have the curve listed in it as a diagram. I found this one in there but not sure if it is of much help. I also have the ignitech system with COP installed. I am happy with the system but yes it does seem to be lacking in the 2000 to 3000 RPM range and I am also trying to see why I am loosing spark at times when just at a constant cruise in the 3000 to 4000 RPM range. I am not sure if I have a bad coil or connector or just what at this time as I havent had a lot of free time to troubleshoot it. I did make my own new connectors and cables and it doesnt happen constantly so it is a tough one to find plus it seems the bike has to be warmed up to normal operating temps for it to occur.

Rick F.

[lonestarmedic]

Made the connector wires myself. I bought a Honda CBR1000RR harness and 4 coils. Then cut my connector ends off of a set of old coils. Soldered and used heatshrink on the wires. Then I pushed some stainless braid for vacuum tubing over the wires. Heat shrink on each end keeps the braid under control so it does not fray.

 

They do plug into the original connectors for the wiring harness for the TCI. Now remember that COPs have a different resistance value. If you upgrade to COPs on an 83-89 ORIGINAL ignition box, you may burn out the TCI. On a 90-93 the TCI is different. And in theory you should be able to run COPS.

 

Those are nice looking braided shields on the connectors Medic.

Did you buy a kit from someone?

 

If I have the original Digital TCI they just wire to the original coil inputs, right?

[lonestarmedic]

I agree it is difficult to smooth out (turn out) the pulses.

 

There has been discussion about using the original (standard) boost sensor. I think it would work better but there is that remote chance of sensor failure and the sensor feeding 12VDC into the Ignitech. The MAP sensor that is supplied could only feed 5VDC into the Ignitech.

 

I am going to sit down and learn the programming on this TCI over the next few weeks. I should be able to convert the service manual chart into the Ignitech programming.

 

To smooth pulsations it won't turn out. It is better to establish TPS. And it is even simpler to connect standard boost-sensor.

About an ignition chart - I wrote the letter to Ignitech about 3 weeks ago. I asked them to modify an ignition chart according to service manual. So far the answer isn't present.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?40414-Aftermarket-TCI-available!/page26

[garyS-NJ]

I just got the ignetech from dingy and had no plans to do the coil over plug mod. ran it but haven't ridden it. seems a little rough on the idle and sluggish on revving. is there a known problem/improvement to his map sensor and standard advance curve? I just plugged it in and have not yet bought the serial programming port cable../

[lonestarmedic]

Depends on what he loaded into it. I am still having a lot of problems with mine. Above 2800 rpm the tach is all over the place. And I do think I have cylinders dropping out. Not sure where the problem lies as of yet. Pretty sure that it is in the ignition. I hold throttle steady and I get a 2000 rpm jumping swing. And yes the idle is rougher. Not sure if it is the MAP sensor or the ignition and vacuum curves. It appears to have a great deal more advance in the system than original. Have not heard from Gary about the tachometer problem yet.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T217A using Tapatalk

[dingy]

Some picture attached of what I did a few years ago to smooth pulsing out. 1 1/4 pvc with 2 caps and hose barbs JB welded in. Very short canister is better than long on, longer takes more time to smooth out pulsing.

 

5 way connector was from Auto Zone. Tie all 4 carbs into 5 way, 5 port goes to canister, then to MAP sensor.

 

Gary

[KISA]

There are data that Ignitech can work with 18 volts on contact pieces of IAP.

https://app.box.com/s/d7su3leoes2us8uezo902ml8b6qbns10

Here my vision of an original chart of ignition. But badly works. lonestarmedic, try to force it to work. But it seems to me, Dynostend is required here (

[lonestarmedic]

Ok, got a chance to play. I changed the dwell to AUTO. And it cleared up the tach and stumbling. Evidently the box needs to calculate. I took a film clip of the screen and can see the dwell varience. Made a huge change.

 

Then I started playing with the advance. Dropped the high rpm down a bit. Gave a bit more from 2000 to 3000 then more gradual from 4000 on up. Dead spot is going away on the centerstand. Road trial tomorrow night.

 

Dropped base timing to 5 degrees and played. Felt a bit lagging. So I have settled on 8 degrees for the moment.

 

MAP sensor is still tied to all 4 cylinders. And the voltages are from 2.3-4.7 right now. Seems to be feeling ok.

 

I will be gradually playing and testing. Think I am going to set up some measured lengths on my main road. Then try various tweaks at various gears and rpms.

 

Once that is done, I will start chasing for fuel mileage with different advances at the 3000 to 4000 rpm range.

 

I am also going to wire the original pressure sensor back in at some time and repeat my testing.

 

All this will take some time but should end up with one or two programs that work for my combination.

 

By the way Dingy (Gary) as you can tell I am hooked on this little box.

 

J.B.

Edited September 3, 2015 by lonestarmedic

[KISA]

[h=5]lonestarmedic, and unless you have not v88? Work with original boost sensor.[/h]

[garyS-NJ]

Between 3-4000 rpm (by 2500rpm) shouldn't the ignition be "fully advanced" to the stock number? Or are the advancing more with change to fuel or compression? & gas mileage? I thought performance should be everything (& throw away pollution control). BTW what is your combination? I have a stock '84 xvz12d just installed Gray's ignetech

[lonestarmedic]

GaryS-

At this point I am playing. And remember that there is also the vacuum advance to add in to get total advance.

 

Stock 1986 1300 motor. Coil On Plug conversion. Stock collector and MAC mufflers. Do not think the mufflers are changing anything.

[lonestarmedic]

[h=5]lonestarmedic, and unless you have not v88? Work with original boost sensor.[/h]

KISA - I have a V88 installed. Using latest software. The original sensor may be more stable. Less fluctuation with the pulsation of the vacuum.

[KISA]

The original sensor has no pulsations at all.

Maybe it is useful:

 

Volts DC kPa

86...... 88

2.20 - 2.30 @ Atmosphere

2.05 - 1.90 @ 20kPa

1.90 - 1.75 @ 30kPa

1.65 - 1.60 @ 40kPa

1.50 - 1.40 @ 50kPa

1.30 - 1.25 @ 60kPa

1.20 - 1.15 @ 65kPa

1.10 - 1.10 @ 70kPa

0.90 - 0.90 @ 80kPa

0.85 - 0.85 @ 85kPa

[dingy]

lonestarmedic, and unless you have not v88? Work with original boost sensor.

 

 

Why are you so enthused about stock vacuum sensor. The reason I include a new one in kit is I have seen a number of failed stock sensors. They are a rather fragile piece of electronics after 20-30 years.

 

Gary

[KISA]

MAP sensor 5v - the compelled decision. It is impossible to get rid of pulsations up to the end. It is partially justified for v75 and v80.

The excellent decision-TPS, but for its realization it is necessary to work as hands.

With an original sensor of anything it isn't necessary to do. Everything works.

It was necessary to optimize ignition.

Dingy, it is time for you to throw out from a set of MAP sensor and to add TPS. Or at all not to include sensors in a set, and to add COP ;)

[dingy]

A few pictures of a TPS sensor I have in bike now. I created a new wheel for the throttle cable junction box that is on cruise control equipped bikes 3D printed one out of a material similar to ABS.. Replaces the stock wheel that the throttle line engage. It has a shaft that protrudes through hole drilled in junction box housing. Then a somewhat standard TPS type controller (potentiometer) was mounted to outside of junction box. I DO NOT sell adapter wheel, but I would share the CAD file.

 

I have removed stock radio & replaced with an aftermarket marine rated unit that doesn't have a CD player in it, so it is much shorter and gives me a lot of room in left fairing pocket.

 

I did not see an distinct difference with TPS or Vacuum, I have connectors on both, so I can swap them out easily, along with a program change in TCI. I'm not saying there isn't a difference, I do not have a dyno run with the TPS & vacuum side by side to know.

 

Gary