Steering Wanders

[ToyOdie]

I'm looking for suggestion on my 97 RSTC. When riding at speeds up to around 55 mph the bike seems to wander like I'm going over tar snakes. It is more noticeable at lower speeds and it's not as bad as it sounds but still it's anoying. I have been paying close attention to where the crown in my lane is and that doesn't seem to matter. I have adjusted the steering head bearings to the book and that didn't help. I also checked tire pressure (Dunlap E-3's with 8000 miles and still look new). My next thought is wheel bearings because I swapped the wheels from my 96 that had 60,000 miles (they were in better shape). I'm looking for any ideas of things to check before I start changing parts. Thanks for any help I can get.

[frankd]

The bottom steering head bearing race might have a detent worn into it. Every time you hit a bump, the lower bearing gets pushed into the race hard, and because the front wheel position is usually in the same position (straight ahead) the race is jarred in the same position every time. Eventually a pretty big gash gets formed, and this causes the front wheel to want to stay pointed straight ahead and it takes a lot more force to get the bearing to move when you want to correct your course. As result of this, the bike wanders. To prove this, you'll have to remove the steering bearings and inspect the race.

[Ace]

The bottom steering head bearing race might have a detent worn into it. Every time you hit a bump, the lower bearing gets pushed into the race hard, and because the front wheel position is usually in the same position (straight ahead) the race is jarred in the same position every time. Eventually a pretty big gash gets formed, and this causes the front wheel to want to stay pointed straight ahead and it takes a lot more force to get the bearing to move when you want to correct your course. As result of this, the bike wanders. To prove this, you'll have to remove the steering bearings and inspect the race.

 

I agree with this, I had this happen with my '06 RSV. Best way to check if bearings are "notchy" is to get the bike up on a lift and remove the front wheel then slowly turn back and forth and see if you can feel it catching. Something also to check is how much play is on the rear suspension swingarm pivot bearings, bike will wander when it gets sloppy as well.

[Pegasus1300]

+3 its in the steering head races. If you can get the front wheel off the ground you will probably find you have play in the steering head. Grab and pull back and forth, if it moves that is your problem.

[ToyOdie]

OK guys, you have my attention! At my first opportunity I'll pull the front end apart. More than likely I'll find bad bearing races. With that in mind I'm going to order and replace them while it's apart. I don't like to do the same job twice. Any tips or tricks I need to be aware of when I get into it?

[ToyOdie]

I received my bearings and I'm going to start pulling the front end apart tonight. I have been researching the project and have found that removing the lower bearing from the pivot shaft is the most difficult. Anyone have any suggestions to make it easier? The rest of the job looks like it will be straight forward with a minimum of issues. I already have both new races in the freezer to make them fit easier. Tomorrow is my day off, so I'm hoping to get it back together in one day.

[etcswjoe]

I had this issue and it turned out to be a torn rotator cuff, had several others ride my bike at Vogel a couple years ago and it did fine with them. Anyone else it would have been the bike but oh not me I have to be different.

[ToyOdie]

I had this issue and it turned out to be a torn rotator cuff, had several others ride my bike at Vogel a couple years ago and it did fine with them. Anyone else it would have been the bike but oh not me I have to be different.

 

Must be a "Blackshoe" thing.....LOL

[yamagrl]

Must be a "Blackshoe" thing.....LOL

 

 

"Airdale"?

[ToyOdie]

"Airdale"?

 

Absolutely........Wouldn't have it any other way!

[ToyOdie]

Thursday I replaced the steering head bearings. The only way I could get the lower bearing off was to cut it. Other than that it was mostly uneventful. I'd say 99% of the wandering is gone. The rest is mental. The problem started several months after installing my fairing. I'm thinking the extra weight on the front contributed to premature wear. After I put a few mile on it I'll check the head bearing adjustment again. The book calls for 2.7 ftlbs final torque and that felt a little loose. I did the bounce test before I reinstalled the fairing and it was fine. After installing the fairing it bounced when it hit the stop. I think the bearing nut needs to be a little bit tighter.

 

I did have one issue that had me scratching my head. I followed the book 100% when I reassembled everything. I installed the shock tubes and torqued the cap nut to 94 ftlbs. Then I adjusted both shocks to be flush with the top and torqued the lower pinch bolts. I then removed the top triple tree and installed the upper shock covers. When I reinstalled the top triple tree and torqued it again to 94 ftlbs the left shock was no longer flush with the top. It was @1/16th lower than the right side. I took it back apart and checked the upper covers and even swapped them to the other sides with no difference. Not sure what might be causing the difference. I know that without the upper covers they they are flush so I call it good unless someone else has some insight.

[ToyOdie]

OK, I've been riding the bike for several week now. I tore the front end down and re-torqued the head bearing again. I said that the wandering was about 99% gone after I changed the head bearings. This was a little premature. The wandering is still there. Even after re-torqueing it's still moving around when riding in a straight line. It feels like a gyroscopic condition. I checked tire pressure and the swing arm and they are good. My next best guess is wheel bearings. I tried to check them with the bike on the jack but I'm just not comfortable pushing and pulling too hard with the bike in the air. I don't have a Carbon One jack adapter. I didn't feel or see any looseness but they have @70,000 miles and it won't hurt to change them. I'm just looking for other posibilities. Thanks for any help I can get.

[ToyOdie]

I changed the front wheel bearings and still have the wandering. In other threads people refer to it as the bike feeling "hinged" in the middle. This is really what I'm feeling. Now what??? Tomorrow is Thanksgiving and I'll have a whole day to recheck everything. The wife always wants me out of the way while she cooks anyway. I think I have eliminated the front of the bike, so I'll concentrate on the rear. Do I need to remove the differential and drive shaft to properly check the swing arm for play? Everyone have a great holiday.

[billmac]

Have you checked the rear shock ? too much or little air can affect the steering.

[Ace]

What I found to see if there is side to side play is I disconnect the dog bones from the swing arm, usually I can't detect play unless the rear shock is out of the equation.

[ToyOdie]

billmac......The 97 RSTC was before the air adjustable shock but thanks for the input.

 

 

What I found to see if there is side to side play is I disconnect the dog bones from the swing arm, usually I can't detect play unless the rear shock is out of the equation.

 

My plan was to remove the rear tire and disconnect the shock. I just didn't know if the diff and drive shaft had to come off too. If I find side play I'll look at retorqueing the swing arm and then repacking the bearings after I get some new seals. I don't want to remove the seals if I can't replace them.

[WildBill1]

I believe your problem is in the front forks. You said it wonders and the triple tree bearings were changed. Try changing your fork oil and refilling with auto-transmission fluid, yes it works great for bike forks. This has worked for me a lot better than Japan fork oil also without the fish oil smell.

[Rick Butler]

Rich,

 

With everything you have done to this bike and it's still wondering, I really feel you have the head bearings too tight. Too loose, the head will shake on deceleration and too tight it will constantly wonder trying to correct the tracking between the front and rear wheel. I would pull the top tree and back off the castle nuts 1/2 a castle and put her back together and see if that makes a difference.

 

Good luck,

 

Rick

 

 

I changed the front wheel bearings and still have the wandering. In other threads people refer to it as the bike feeling "hinged" in the middle. This is really what I'm feeling. Now what??? Tomorrow is Thanksgiving and I'll have a whole day to recheck everything. The wife always wants me out of the way while she cooks anyway. I think I have eliminated the front of the bike, so I'll concentrate on the rear. Do I need to remove the differential and drive shaft to properly check the swing arm for play? Everyone have a great holiday.

[ToyOdie]

Well yesterday, by the way hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving, I checked the swing arm. There wasn't any play and the torque was right on the money. Rick, I'll go back and loosen the head bearings as you suggest and see what happens. I did tighten them a little extra to make up for the weight of the fairing in the bump test. I may have gone past the limit. If that doesn't resolve the issue I do have a "Plan B". I'll give more details if I have to use it. Thanks for all the help.

[Rick Butler]

Yeah Rich,

 

If you had a 1st gen, I would say that tightening the head bearing a bit is a good thing. But I have discovered that with these new frames on the 2nd gen, doing this will give you adverse effects. In fact riding the bike after torquing the head bearings is the final test.....if it won't ride straight, then they are too tight and if the head shakes at 70mph when you lock the cruise and take your hands off the bars, too loose. And it doesn't take much of a movement in the nut to make a change either way.

 

But I don't think you will need a Plan B, as I'll bet good money it's the head bearing......did you also pack them real good when you replaced the bearings?

 

Good luck,

 

Rick

 

Well yesterday, by the way hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving, I checked the swing arm. There wasn't any play and the torque was right on the money. Rick, I'll go back and loosen the head bearings as you suggest and see what happens. I did tighten them a little extra to make up for the weight of the fairing in the bump test. I may have gone past the limit. If that doesn't resolve the issue I do have a "Plan B". I'll give more details if I have to use it. Thanks for all the help.

[ToyOdie]

Yeah Rich,

 

If you had a 1st gen, I would say that tightening the head bearing a bit is a good thing. But I have discovered that with these new frames on the 2nd gen, doing this will give you adverse effects. In fact riding the bike after torquing the head bearings is the final test.....if it won't ride straight, then they are too tight and if the head shakes at 70mph when you lock the cruise and take your hands off the bars, too loose. And it doesn't take much of a movement in the nut to make a change either way.

 

But I don't think you will need a Plan B, as I'll bet good money it's the head bearing......did you also pack them real good when you replaced the bearings?

 

Good luck,

 

Rick

 

I was busy this weekend so I didn't have a chance to research the problem. After work I'll loosen the head bearings and try again. Yes I did pack them full when I replaced them. Plan "B" turned out to be a bust. I looked at a 2006 RSV for $5500. It would have been a good project for half the price. Every painted part needed at least paint. The right side bag was cracked from the inside. The gas tank looked like he had a tank slapper. It also had a coolant leak. Most of the chrome was pitted and or rusted. With only 18,000 miles it looked sad. I'm always looking for something I can't pass up. I took a pass on this one.

[ToyOdie]

Rick..........YOUR THE MAN!!!!! I backed off the castle nuts on the head bearings about 1/3 of a turn and the problem went away. I did have it over tightened. Thanks for the help.

[Rick Butler]

Well good deal,

 

I can't explain it, but these Royal Star frames seemed to make a big difference on the head bearing torque compared to what we had to deal with on any of the 1st Gens. They just like it to where the forks move smoothly to the stops with a little friction. On a 1st gen you wanted the forks to move smoothly off center, but stop before they hit the stops....or more friction?

 

Rick