improving front brakes,01 rsv

[cruiserlover]

My bike has 87,000 miles on it.About to change brake fluid.Do I just fill the master cylinder after sopping out the old.refill, open bleeder, pump brake lever and hold (my helper holding) while i open the bleeder.Do this till clear looking fluid comes out.Do same for front and rear caliper.I know the ventures have to pull the lever pretty far in before the brakes start to grab.I have read here about sintered,organic,ebc pads.Softer on rear to prevent locking up,etc.Also r1 change.Also steel brake lines.I dont know if all the bolt holes from r1 line up on the venture.Also the whole system would be full of air,especially if i went with steel lines.I could use a vacuum bleeder I guess.Where do you buy those ss lines?Do they have to be cut to length? What about the banjo fittings on the ends? Thanks for any input.

[videoarizona]

Yes, here. No. No.

 

Go to classifieds, Member vendors, Skydoc 17 's area. There you will find a complete kit for your Venture. He has them for both 1st gens and 2nd gens like yours.

Vacuum bleeders can be found at most parts houses including Harbor Freight. Cheap enough. You can also change out your bleeders for Speedbleeders. Makes it easier to do this by yourself. They can be found on-line. Lots of info on this site about them, sizes, etc.. You will need 5 of them if memory serves... (includes clutch).

 

Now..I for one find the 2nd gen brakes to be quite good stock. I know that stainless lines would help for the rest of the life of the bike...but not sure I would go to the rest of the trouble. The 1st gens need all of the work you mentioned...as their brakes were 80's technology and are getting pretty worn out by now.

BTW, if you are having to pull the lever pretty far in to get braking action on a 2nd gen, either your pads are worn or your levers/rods are misadjusted. Download the manual if you don't have it here in tech area and go through setting your brakes up. But don't bother with this until you've changed the lines and put new fluids in. Then go ahead and check out the brake adjustments.

 

Just doing the above repairs and adjustments will make you think you have brand new bike!

Hope this helps,

david

[brummers]

I just rebuilt my clutch master cylinder because the fluid was dark. I found some sludge inside the reservoir. It turns out the dust cover/boot on the push rod had disintegrated allowing dirt into the otherwise closed hydraulic system. So if your fluid is dark, look for possible points of contamination.

 

I had to clean out the Master Cylinder and found that Lime-Away did a fantastic job getting the crud out and cleaning the inside of the sight glass.

 

Here is how i removed the master cylinder from the bike:

0. Cover the bike with some old blankets to keep any spilled brake fluid off the paint.

1. Loosen the Master from the handlebars and make it level as possible. If its full it will spill.

2. Remove the top cover.

3. Sop up fluid from reservoir, or use a turkey baster.

4. Remove the banjo bolt and wire the brake line to the handlebar. (I got fluid from the master cylinder, but not from the brake line).

5. Remove the master cylinder from the handlebars.

 

If you're just replacing the fluid, stop after step 3 and fill with clean DOT4 fluid and bleed through the calipers until the fluid is clear again. Attach a clear hose to the bleeder valve and run into a water bottle with some brake fluid in the bottom. Be sure to bleed both L and R calipers.

[cruiserlover]

Thanks guys for all the good information.

[cruiserlover]

Yes, here. No. No.

 

Go to classifieds, Member vendors, Skydoc 17 's area. There you will find a complete kit for your Venture. He has them for both 1st gens and 2nd gens like yours.

Vacuum bleeders can be found at most parts houses including Harbor Freight. Cheap enough. You can also change out your bleeders for Speedbleeders. Makes it easier to do this by yourself. They can be found on-line. Lots of info on this site about them, sizes, etc.. You will need 5 of them if memory serves... (include

 

Now..I for one find the 2nd gen brakes to be quite good stock. I know that stainless lines would help for the rest of the life of the bike...but not sure I would go to the rest of the trouble. The 1st gens need all of the work you mentioned...as their brakes were 80's technology and are getting pretty worn out by now.

BTW, if you are having to pull the lever pretty far in to get braking action on a 2nd gen, either your pads are worn or your levers/rods are misadjusted. Download the manual if you don't have it here in tech area and go through setting your brakes up. But don't bother with this until you've changed the lines and put new fluids in. Then go ahead and check out the brake adjustments.

 

Just doing the above repairs and adjustments will make you think you have brand new bike!

Hope this helps,

david

 

I went to member vendor,did not find anyone named skydoc

[videoarizona]

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/photopost/showproduct.php?product=54&title=second-gen-ss-brake-line-set-w-2f-vmax-splitter&cat=17

[Mike G in SC]

Don't overlook simply using WD40 on the brake lever pivot points (same for clutch). With my Road Star I was headed to the shop to have my brakes looked at. At a stoplight I gave it some thought and stopped at a parts place, got WD40 and, well the shop trip was not needed. I get the same on my Royals, sometimes after a rain or washing, levers get sticky. WD40 and a rag does the trick.

[BratmanXj]

IF you want to down the road of upgrading the brake system (as I did) from the stock 2-piston calipers to 4-piston calioers you will also need to swap to the 14mm master cylinder. Easiest is to find a whole front brake system from an 02-05 road star Warrior or 06-up Road star. The calipers are either black or silver and it has a master that is an exact swap for the Venture.

[cruiserlover]

Thanks bratman.sounds like a plan.

[RSTDdog]

Both the Warrior and the Road star also use Floating Rotors in conjunction with the 4 piston caliper. Source some stratoliner/roadliner floating rotors to complete the job. The Road Star and warrior floating rotors may also fit.

 

WD40 is a temporary fix on the clutch and brake pivots. Best method is to remove the brake and clutch levers completely. Push the brass pivot/pusher out of the handle and clean ( if you are super anal, use brass polish on it and the aluminum lever). Clean that, the lever bolt pivot surface and all mating surfaces on the lever itself and on the master cylinder where the lever rides, Light grease on everything that pivots/rotates and reassemble. Smooth action, no squeaks, no noise on engagement and release. You will ask yourself why didn't I do this sooner.

[Great White]

Do not forget to cover the tank and any other painted parts when doing brake fluid change.

 

Brake fluid eats paint. Any spilled fluid has to be flushed away immediately.

 

I throw a couple old bath sheet sized towels on/around the areas where it could spill. That way, if I spill, I just pull the top towel off before it soaks through the second towel to the painted surface.

 

I also use old towels like you would a fender apron when working on a car. It's saved me more than a few paint nicks when working on bikes. I find towels work better than car apron like materials because they form to the bikes shapes better and stay put. You can also toss them in a washers when done and they're clean for next time. Just don't throw an oil soaked towel in the same washer you do you clothes with or the missus is going to be p!ssed!!!!!

 

If you do spill on paint, flush with a hose immediately. A bucket of soapy water and a sponge is my preferred weapon for brake fluid spills......

 

Edited August 15, 2015 by Great White

[Venturous]

Here is my suggestion for seriously improve braking. I did not discover this mod... just documented my swap.

 

http://www.macesoftware.com/VNet/R1_Swap.pdf

[RSTDdog]

Here is my suggestion for seriously improve braking. I did not discover this mod... just documented my swap.

 

http://www.macesoftware.com/VNet/R1_Swap.pdf

 

Thats a good write up. The Yamaha four piston calipers, whether source from an R1, R6, or Roadstar/Warrior are all the same from a piston diameter ans size standpoint. The Roadstar ones have chrome buttons that hide the "star" you see in the R1 R6 caliper. IOW the R1 caliper does not perform better or differently than a road star 4 piston caliper.

[Condor]

IF you want to down the road of upgrading the brake system (as I did) from the stock 2-piston calipers to 4-piston calioers you will also need to swap to the 14mm master cylinder. Easiest is to find a whole front brake system from an 02-05 road star Warrior or 06-up Road star. The calipers are either black or silver and it has a master that is an exact swap for the Venture.

 

Ok I wanna know... What is gained by going to a 14mm master, rather than using the stock oem RSV master??

[BratmanXj]

I believe the stock Venture master is 5/8" so it moves (slightly) less volume per stroke than the 14mm. You're now moving 4 pistons vs 2 and the lever "feel" is slighly better, the "take up" in the lever is better. I was able to find an entire front brake system for $60, but many people have done the swap with only the calipers.

[Venturous]

Ok I wanna know... What is gained by going to a 14mm master, rather than using the stock oem RSV master??

 

Less volume, higher pressure. Results in a slightly longer lever travel and a much better feel for how much pressure you are applying. Was skeptical when I read this... but it is a noticeably better feel on lever. Apply a little pressure... feel a little braking. With the stock set-up.. you apply a little pressure... feel nothing. Apply a little more... maybe maybe not feel something. Then seems all of sudden you feel braking force. With the R1 and 14mm set-up... you gain not only improved braking, but a much better 'feel'

 

Best I can 'splain it. I know others here have done it and may have more technical explanations.

[Condor]

I've done a couple of R1 caliper mods and used the stock master without any of the so called 'feel' problems. The braking response comes from the caliper and pads, not from the size of the master piston. The brake pads ride a couple of thousandth's off the caliper. There's hardly any difference in the hydraulic requirement between the 2 and 4 piston caliper. Are you all saying that it takes more fluid to get the pads to engage the rotor surface, hence the response is quicker with the 14mm??

[RSTDdog]

There was a good discussion on this several years back. I tried searching for it but search keeps saying no results found. Here is a link on basic theory http://www.crossmfg.com/technical/basic-hydraulic-theory I want to say Skydoc posted some decel runs showing the braking improvement also, but not sure if he also compared the master cylinder types.

Edited August 16, 2015 by RSTDdog

[Condor]

I remember that discussion too. The point I'm trying top make however is that between the 14mm/.5511" and the 5/8"/15.8mm master there isn't a significant difference to make installing another master feasible on an RSV/TD. Sure if the need for braking is paramount, and the 14mm will perform a tad better, go for it. In comparison between the OEM 2 piston, and the R1/R6's, the 4 piston calipers alone will make a vast improvement over stock... I guess I just feel that spending the extra dollars for something unless it's really needed is a waste of money...

[BratmanXj]

that between the 14mm/.5511" and the 5/8"/15.8mm master there isn't a significant difference to make installing another master feasible on an RSV/TD.

 

That is a 12.85% difference in volume, and in the world of fluid dynamics that would be a significant variation...granted I'm far removed from my mechanical engineering days so I'm not going to go that far into detail. Ma Yamaha outfits any bike with 4-pot calipers with a 14mm master, and all 2-pot calipers with a 5/8" master. I'm sure for a reason. Will R6/R1/Road Star calipers by them selves be an upgrade on a Venture/TD? Yes, but the system is not optimized for the pressure and volume necessary.

[Condor]

By all means if you have the money go for it. However, keep in mind we're talking about a cruising/touring bike, not something that's going to end up on the track. At the risk of repetition, the 14mm is not needed. And... if you want to talk about optimizing the braking system... why not toss on a set of Benbo's?? And also we're not talking about volume, but rather applied pressure.

[BratmanXj]

I was able to find and ENTIRE front setup for $65 shipped from a wrecked Warrior, that's less than most eBay prices for just the calipers. You can do the swap with just the 4-pot calipers but if you can find a 14mm master for a reasonable price it does further improves the brake system.

[bongobobny]

OK let me try to explain as best as I can the differences between 2 piston vs 4 piston systems and how pressure and volume come into play. Let's start with the total piston area. Which has more total area, one 1/2 inch circle or two 1/4 inch circles?? HINT: two 1/4 circles fit inside one 1/2 inch circle. So hopefully you came to the conclusion that 4 piston calipers have less area than 2 piston calipers. Now theoretically either caliper has to travel the same distance to make contact with the rotor via the brake pads, and VOLUME is area times distance, so the 4 piston calipers have slightly less total volume (not 1/2 like in my example) than the 2 piston. Therefore, for the same force exerted on the brake lever to give the same force on the brakes a smaller area master cylinder is needed.

 

As already stated, smaller area master cylinders give higher psi. Just changing the master gives you a longer stroke but higher psi when you squeeze the handle with the same force. So, just changing the master to a smaller diameter gives the stock brakes more of a grabby response but with a much longer lever movement. Just changing the calipers without changing the master gives a harder feeling lever with a shorter stroke but less pressure i.e. you have to squeeze harder to get the same braking power.

 

Hope this sheds some light on the subject...

[Condor]

And you know this because the original OEM's didn't work for you after doing the mod??

[bongobobny]

No, I did mine all at once. I know this because I was an electrohydraulic technician...