suggestions for a better braking on Venture 83 XVZ12 ?

[mecasonic]

Hi all,

 

Any suggestions on how to improve the braking system on my 83 Venture XVZ12?

I've heard R1 Brakes could fit....not so sure.

Thx

[Great White]

Personally: de-link the front and rear brakes if you're anywhere near being an experienced rider. Heck, I even think they're bordering on dangerous if you're a new rider too: jamming the rear brake and having the front wheel wash out is going to make you all kinds of confused!

 

The front brake calipers off an r1/r6 will bolt right on to the 86+ fork tube lowers.

 

Sadly, you have an 83 (as do I). you will need to swap to 86+ fork lowers if you want to use the R1/6 calipers.

 

I also believe the 83 front brake MC is the wrong diameter piston to de-link the front and rear brakes. You need (IIRC) an 86+ MC as well.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Great White

[zagger]

Are you sure that the calipers are working correctly? If one piston inside the caliper is stuck, the braking action would be seriously reduced. My 83's brakes seem plenty strong (they are delinked), as good or better than a Honda cruiser that I also own.

zag

[Wizard765]

Best thing I did on my 84 was to get the steel braided cables from Skydoc.. made a world of difference. I also De-linked a the same time

[syscrusher]

Here is the stuff you need to do the de-linking:

 

All you need to do the whole job, replacing everything with kevlar lined stainless brake lines is to go here: http://www.pashnit.com/product/galfe...now.html#front and buy the Vmax front lines with 8" over and the standard Vmax rear. I did communicate to Tim Mayhew there that I wanted two 45" lines for the front with a double banjo. You can get your lines any color you like and even the banjos can be colored for an added price. Tim will take your input and then order kits for you that will give you everything you need except the bolt to plug the old rear master port while you swing your new rear line to the old front port. The plug is a 10mmX1.25 flange head bolt cut down to 8mm to 10mm in length and the end threads smoothed a little with a fine file. Ace Hardware has a 16mm long bolt in stainless that you can start with. There has been some discussion of gutting the proportional valving on the rear master but it doesn't seem necessary when the fluid can only go out the only open port left. While it's not absolutely necessary to replace the rear line to unlink the brakes, it is necessary if you move the line to the old front port, and the stainless line will perform better. There may be even better sources for these items but my experiences were good with the vendors I used. Pashnit provides free shipping and he even started out doing motorcycle touring on a Venture Royale, there's a write-up of that experience on his website!

 

2 - 45" front any color (Vmax overlength 8") = $110

1 - 10mm X 1.25 stainless flange head bolt = $4

 

1 - standard length Vmax rear brake line = $52

 

Your kits will include at least all of the copper washers that you will need.

[Blackmax88]

Your bike has Sumitomo 2 pot calipers and 'solid' 282 mm discs. If you want to upgrade to 4 pot calipers you have the option of changing the fork lower legs to the later model as suggested or finding a pair of adapters which will allow you to hang the 4 pots (RI/R6) calipers onto the fork's existing caliper lugs. You will then need to fit 298mm semi floating discs. The early model RI calipers function best with a master cylinder with a piston dia of 14mm.( Vmax or FJR will perch on 7/8" handlebars) This conversion is popular with owners of earlier Vmaxes ( pre '93 with 40 mm diameter fork tubes) as upgrading the pre '93 models to 4 pots and 298mm discs without adapters involves the change over of the complete front end ( bigger calipers and discs were fitted to the later Gen I Vmax with 43mm diameter fork tubes).

Caliper adapter / hangers are difficult to find but they are out there.

Braided lines are a priority, plenty of off the shelf lines or custom made.

FWIW

[Great White]

Your bike has Sumitomo 2 pot calipers and 'solid' 282 mm discs. If you want to upgrade to 4 pot calipers you have the option of changing the fork lower legs to the later model as suggested or finding a pair of adapters which will allow you to hang the 4 pots (RI/R6) calipers onto the fork's existing caliper lugs. You will then need to fit 298mm semi floating discs. The early model RI calipers function best with a master cylinder with a piston dia of 14mm.( Vmax or FJR will perch on 7/8" handlebars) This conversion is popular with owners of earlier Vmaxes ( pre '93 with 40 mm diameter fork tubes) as upgrading the pre '93 models to 4 pots and 298mm discs without adapters involves the change over of the complete front end ( bigger calipers and discs were fitted to the later Gen I Vmax with 43mm diameter fork tubes).

Caliper adapter / hangers are difficult to find but they are out there.

Braided lines are a priority, plenty of off the shelf lines or custom made.

FWIW

Small point: his is an 83 which would be internally vented discs, 86+ was the solid discs with slots.

 

Many have just dropped r1/6 calipers on the stock discs without changing to floating discs. Same as the 4 pot calipers on the 86+ models. I would suspect the 4 pots are why the 86+ mc is reported to work fine with the r1/6 calipers: its prob a 14mm piston. That's what's been posted on the forum before, although I haven't confirmed that for myself yet....

 

Edited August 1, 2015 by Great White

[Blackmax88]

Mecasonic was looking for suggestions on how to improve the braking on his '83 Venture, my small contribution attempted to address, that tho I'm sure it's been done to death elsewhere. As with all forums you get out of them what you can.

"Small point: his is an 83 which would be internally vented discs, 86+ was the solid discs with slots"

I referred to these early discs as "solid" as opposed to later "floating" discs. The ventilated 282mm dia are in fact a composite disc with the brake wearing surface fused onto the steel carrier. Some may know that, because of the jointing of the wear surfaces, that these discs should only be mounted in the correct rotation direction. There is a (small) direction arrow on the outer face of the carrier showing correct rotation. A close look at the brake wearing surface will show there are 3 segments to each side with the splices in one direction.

Tho replaced by more effective calipers and larger disc on the front end,these early discs continued to be fitted the rear end to many other Yamaha models.

IMO, the best bank for his buck, to upgrade his '83 brakes is to fit RI calipers ( alum or steel pistons OK), to his '83's forks with adapters ( 2 pot Sumitomo caliper bolts 83 mm c/c with Yam 4 pot caliper's bolts 100mm c/c) . This mod will necessitate fitting 298 mm floating discs.

Re the m/c. Blue spot 4 pot RI calipers are a popular upgrade for the RSV as well as other bikes but much "feel" is lost at the brake lever if the original (large bore) m/c is not replaced. Sure the bike will stop but with more hand pressure and less sensitivity / feel at the lever.

Probably worth a mention is the type of brake pads employed, particularly with stainless steel rotors.

FWIW

[syscrusher]

I don't think a Double H pad exists for the original calipers. The upgrade to R1/R6 calipers would definitely allow an upgrade to Double H pads. Very worthwhile.

 

So is the caliper to fork adapter readily available?

 

I think I've seen the discs for $50 each on ebay, or a whole front wheel assembly may be the way to go.

 

I'm really glad I delinked brakes though and I think that you don't want to learn to ride with linked brakes because you need that reflex to be applicable to all(most all) motorcycles.

Superior braking techniques are possible if the brakes aren't linked.

[Venturous Randy]

I don't think a Double H pad exists for the original calipers. The upgrade to R1/R6 calipers would definitely allow an upgrade to Double H pads. Very worthwhile.

 

I had EBC HH pads on my 83 stock. They are available.

Randy

[syscrusher]

Randy you are absolutely right. I was trying to find the HH the other night and couldn't but I went back to an early thread I posted asking about how good they were so I guess I knew they existed.

I ended up buying the R1/R6 calipers and pads before trying the HH pads in the stock setup.

 

Here's a link to a good offer on the stock FA123HH pads:

 

http://www.amazon.com/EBC-Double-H-Sintered-Brake-FA123HH/dp/B000GRZIJ0

[frankd]

A long time ago, better brakes would have saved me from hitting the back of a car with my 83. No matter how much I bled the brakes at the calipers and fork anti dive valves, both the front and back brakes were spongy, and the pedal and levers would run out of travel before I had good braking. When I fixed the bike, I decided to fix the brakes once and for all. I replaced the brake lines with braided lines, but I kept the linked braking intact. I had Progressive Fork Springs so I eliminated the brake line connection to the anti-dive valves. When I bled the brakes, I also used the junction just behind the steering head bearings to purge the air from the left front disk line. With the stock calipers and plain jane regular brake pads, my brakes were now great. It felt like just the right front brake (the one applied with the lever) was stronger than the entire system used to be. The brake levers now only went down a little bit and had a lot of travel left, and both brake actuators were FIRM. If you already have Progessive Fork Springs, this is an effective, easy, inexpensive upgrade.

[Condor]

Like once before I could be wrong, and if I remember correctly, the HH EBC Pads for the OEM '83 calipers are FA88HH?? OR FB88HH??

[Goose68]

I did the complete upgrade on my 84 MKII forks,calipers, and master cylinder, progressive springs, R1 rotors, skydocks stainless lines with delink and EBC HH pads. It wasn't cheap but its like riding a new bike now. The front end handles so much better and stops in a hurry now.

[dingy]

Yellow bike has 2011 R1 six pot calipers with 4 pads per caliper. Same brakes are on 2nd Gen VMax. 300 mm rotors. These are actually a little to much brakes. Forks are from an 86 or 87 Venture. These calipers required a custom bracket, due to 1 piece caliper design somewhat.

 

2nd picture is of six pot calipers that will mount directly to an 86-93 Venture set of forks. Came from a Yamaha YZF 750, early 90's. 298mm stock Venture rotors. No adapter needed. 3rd picture is similar bike these came off.

 

I believe that the rotors may also need to be changed, depending on what the donor bike used. 83-85 Ventures have 282mm rotors, 86-93 Ventures have 298mm rotors. If a 282 is used and donor bike was 298, 5/8" on the rotor outside diameter won't be touched by pads.

 

Gary

[quant55]

If you don't want to invest too much changing rotors, using high perf sport calipers, designing adapters and so on I'll recommend you to: rebuild the masters cylinders for both front and rear brakes, switch to steel braided lines, rebuild the calipers (pay attention to the wear of the cylinders) and switch to CL brake pads. It was told me to try Nissin but they were not available immediately. Giving up using EBC, Ferodo, Goldfren and so made a huge difference for me. Delinking the brakes in my opinion is just a matter of personal option.