more fork seal shennanigans

[Max]

Well, the summer wouldn't be right unless there was a hiccup with the ol'87. Found about 3-4 oz of fork oil on the floor left side only.

Rebuilt both forks 2 years ago with all OEM parts and no problem till now. Dissapointed it failed after only 2 years, or maybe that's not unusual. I suspect the problem

was caused by the metal washer that rests on top of the seal. There is heavy brown corrosion on both sides. The rust grit has been flaking off and the fork oil feels like

sandpaper everywhere between the weather seal and top of the oil seal. The right side washer and oil is clean. Condition of drained oil was ok both sides.

 

Everything below the seals looks like new, so will replace seals and those washers above seals only this time round. No problem ordering seals, but the washers appear

to be out of stock and discontinued by all distributers. PN (26H-23146-00-00 , washer oil seal) As a temp fix I might use the washers from part bike, although they are starting to corrode.

Maybe give the washers a heavy dose of steelwool and hope for the best.

Anyone know where to get these washers? Welcome any suggestions.

[Prairiehammer]

This outfit claims to have the washers.

Let us know if they do, in fact.

Mighty pricey ($19+) for a lousy washer.

But frankly, I don't think the rusty washer is your problem. More likely the inner/upper fork tube has a defect that has ruined the seal, or the upper fork bushings are worn.

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-26H231460000-Front-Fork-Washer/dp/B005CXLIT2

[skydoc_17]

Hey Max,

Sorry to hear about your problem. I was wondering if you replaced the Dust Seal on the side you are having problems with as well as the "Metal Slide 1" which keeps the upper fork tube from deforming the fork seal. The reason I am asking is that the only way moisture can get to the upper washer is if the clearance between the upper fork tube and the dust seal are too great. If you are willing to send me a drawing of the washers you need with OD, ID, and thickness, I can manufacture a set of washers out of Stainless Steel that should solve your problem for good.

Earl

[Max]

This outfit claims to have the washers.

Let us know if they do, in fact. Mighty pricey ($19+) for a lousy washer.

 

Agreed, a little too pricey for a darn steel washer .. 'supply and demand' with no supply. I'm going to steal a less rusty washer from one of the spare bikes for now and

have skydoc fabricate a couple of SS washers.

 

But frankly, I don't think the rusty washer is your problem. More likely the inner/upper fork tube has a defect that has ruined the seal, or the upper fork bushings are worn.

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-26H231460000-Front-Fork-Washer/dp/B005CXLIT2

 

Not what I was hoping to hear. The inner/upper fork tubes look/feel ok. No obvious burrs or scratches, but I realize it only takes a micro defect. Checked both bushings, they look new,

but again, not to say they don't have wear. I'll replace the seals,upper washers, spit and polish the entire fork assembly and hope to heck it works out for the remainder of season.

[Max]

Hey Max,

Sorry to hear about your problem. I was wondering if you replaced the Dust Seal on the side you are having problems with as well as the "Metal Slide 1" which keeps the upper fork tube from deforming the fork seal. The reason I am asking is that the only way moisture can get to the upper washer is if the clearance between the upper fork tube and the dust seal are too great. If you are willing to send me a drawing of the washers you need with OD, ID, and thickness, I can manufacture a set of washers out of Stainless Steel that should solve your problem for good.

Earl

 

Earl, appreciate the offer, I'll take you up on it. I don't have a micrometer, but a quick check with a metric tape shows all dimensions bang on MM's.

 

Rethinking the moisture thing, all 3 vr's (2 parts) are having the same issue with rusting washers. (not as severe as the one that leaks)

I replaced the Dust Seals on prime vr with new OEM's 2 years ago. Quite a chore to remove weather seal yesterday and tight as it could have been.

I'm starting to think of the possibility of winter semi-heated garage storage and possibility of condensation forming between Dust Seal and upper fork tube ?

 

Anyhoo, I'll get a schematic with dimensions to you in the AM.

 

sent to your email 14/07 8AM.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Max
email sent

[Marcarl]

Before putting the dust seal back on, squirt a wee bit of Fluid Film onto the washer, should stop any future rusting and will not hurt any of the components.

 

So whereabouts are you in Ontario,, maybe get you some company if desired.

[Great White]

Prob not what you want to hear, but in my experience 9 times out of ten fork seals fail prematurely do to a defect in the fork sliders.

 

Rust pit, rock chip, etc. that's why I like fork gaiters. Can't stand the look though so I usually buy/make a "stone deflector" like you see in some modern bikes:

 

 

Im actually a big fan of those as they protect the runnig area of the seal.

 

Pressure in "air forks" doesn't help either. As you "air up" the seals get a death grip on the sliders and this usually also accelerates wear. I usually prefer to set up forks with preload and oil levels/weights. But air sure is handy and fast for diff loads.

 

However, if yours has been running in an oil/grit environment, that will also kill seals in short order. When you take it aparts, inspect the seal running area for grooves and scratches from the rust action.

 

i know lots of guys with older hacks that just rebuild thier forks every couple years rather than buy new tubes....

Edited July 14, 2015 by Great White

[Max]

Before putting the dust seal back on, squirt a wee bit of Fluid Film onto the washer, should stop any future rusting and will not hurt any of the components.

 

So whereabouts are you in Ontario,, maybe get you some company if desired.

 

In hindsight that would have prevented the rusting. I'll apply FF during re-assembly ..... waiting for 'parts' in July..80F..blue sky.. arrggghhh

Peterborough is a little too far for the Wednesday Brantford tour.

[Max]

Prob not what you want to hear, but in my experience 9 times out of ten fork seals fail prematurely do to a defect in the fork sliders.

 

Rust pit, rock chip, etc. that's why I like fork gaiters. Can't stand the look though so I usually buy/make a "stone deflector" like you see in some modern bikes:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]100614[/ATTACH]

 

Im actually a big fan of those as they protect the runnig area of the seal.

 

Pressure in "air forks" doesn't help either. As you "air up" the seals get a death grip on the sliders and this usually also accelerates wear. I usually prefer to set up forks with preload and oil levels/weights. But air sure is handy and fast for diff loads.

 

However, if yours has been running in an oil/grit environment, that will also kill seals in short order. When you take it aparts, inspect the seal running area for grooves and scratches from the rust action.

 

i know lots of guys with older hacks that just rebuild thier forks every couple years rather than buy new tubes....

 

 

Ran fine nylon mesh around fork running area and checked for any damage, looks ok so far. Threw in a set of progressives a couple of years ago and with 2 up,

as you said, "I usually prefer to set up forks with preload and oil levels/weights."

The gators in the pic actually don't look that bad.

Waiting for parts mid summer is like .. wellll.

[Max]

This outfit claims to have the washers.

Let us know if they do, in fact.

Mighty pricey ($19+) for a lousy washer.

 

 

$38 for a pair of steel washers ... add tax, exchange & shipping ... well, a little much.

Skydoc was prepared to send me a pair, but the cost of a new sheet of SS, fabrication, $ exchange and shipping to house had costs adding up.

I lucked out with a local metal fab shop. They had a SS pipe that matched the measurements of original washers. They cut me a pair for $15 cash. No brainer.

 

Just received notification (+10 days) the shop I deal with in Hamilton received my seals and shipping to house will take another 5 days via Canada Post.

[Max]

closure for one happy camper (for now)

 

A heads up for anyone that might be having the same issue.

Installed new seals and washers a few days ago, put a couple hundred miles on them, no leaks so far. I was probably lucky there wasn't further damage to tube riding surfaces.

I'm convinced the seal was damaged from crud that dropped from the rusted seal washer. It would have been a matter of time for the right side to fail.

The c clip that holds the washer in place was also beginning to rust. The indentation around the tube that the c clips into also had slight aluminum corrosion. Jeez, another routine check to add to the growing annual checklist.

I like Marcarl's suggestion of a an application of FluidFilm on the washers, probably would have prevented this grief in the first place.

The washer in the pic was cleaned up before deciding to install new ones. Attached a before & after c clip outer tube groove. Final fork assembly cleaned up nicely.

 

St John's Newfoundland/Labrador, we're finally on our way !!