When it rains it pours - and usually right on me

[frodotoo]

Got a flat, couldn't patch it, put on a new tire, thought I was ready to ride. Brake was hanging up, moved the washer to the right spot, thought I was ready to ride. Put it back together, thought I was ready to ride......but..... wouldn't run right, made noises in the drive. Took it apart and found a rubber dust seal (HUB DUST SEAL - part # 1J7-25319-02-00) broken and grease spewing out. So what are the odds of finding one in time to get home, let along ride anywhere in this fantastic area? Does this seal have an integral purpose in holding the wheel/drive together, or is it just a seal? Would I be tempting fate in putting it together without the seal and riding it? I'm gonna try and find one out here, but I doubt I'll find one at any shops within 150 miles around here. I know that no one else has had this happen to them (seems this stuff only happens to me and only on trps to the Dragon), but any learned scholars out there, please share your knowledge with me.

[saddlebum]

If it makes you feel any better (and I am only saying this so you don't feel alone) two years ago on our way home from Galena Marcarl had a bearing let go on the rear wheel of his 85 VR. We got lucky when a by passer stopped was able to help. turned out the guy had a brand new set of bearings in his garage which where for his honda but was the same as the one used in the venture. Most bearing manufacture's use a standard bearing ID numbers for bearings and seals which is etched on the bearing and seal. If you get that number of the part and try honda or some of the local jobbers you might just get lucky.

[eusa1]

the damage to the seal would have been created by the installation of the spacer / washer in the wrong spot, and you should take a hard look at the rear wheel bearing also, as it would be very stressed for the same reason. it's a shame that shops will work on these machines without any knowledge of what they are doing or at least taking the time to watch how it comes apart. the seals and bearings on these machines will run for many miles if installed properly. good luck and......... No ya don't want to drive it home without the seal.

[cowpuc]

Frodo,,, I personally have never seen a wheel set up that uses the seal surface as part of the bearing/axle capturing alignment "squish" in any of my days of working on bikes or cars. Normal squish seems like it should be bushings - washers, (or caliper axle surface) directly onto the outer face of an internal bearing race - then when you tighten the axle nut it draws it all together.. I have ran many many miles with that outer washer out of place before I discovered that the previous owner had done so.. Screwed up a set of pads but didnt cause any internal bearing damage. If it were mine and as long as it was obvious to me that the bearing itself was still usable, I would hand pack the area with grease (gotta be a Walmart or somewhere down there to get a tube of grease), take an old plastic oil bottle/milk jug or some other fairly firm piece of thin plastic material and I would hand cut a new dust cover/seal with my jack knife so I had a way of containing the grease - what the heck bro, where there is a will there is a way!!

Then I would just keep an eye on it -- certainly would never let a dust cover stand in my way of enjoying my road trip bro!!!

Now if ya got a bad bearing,, different story!! If that were the case I would find the nearest bearing supply house and see what they could come up with BUT - I would be surprised if the bearing is shot unless you ran it dry...

[YamahaLarry]

As mentioned by saddlebum, you may be able to cross reference that seal to another standard automotive seal. In a previous life, I worked in parts for both John Deere and Massey Furgeson, and did that daily with seals and bearings. If you can't get a direct cross reference, you can use most any seal that matches the ID, OD and thickness. Or, at least long enough to get you back home and get the OEM seal.

 

Wish you lots of luck and keep us posted.

[frodotoo]

Well found the OEM seal in Toccoa, GA. 61 mies as the crow flies, but 1-1/2 hrs real time. The difference between the two seals is amazing - the new rubber seal is flexible/bendable/squishable and the old one cracked into pieces when I tried to bend it. Cleaned up the two halves, found a few pieces of the old one, and regreased everything.Can't seem to get the two halves to line up though. When I tighten the axle down the tire won't spin freely in neutral. It seems that no matter where I try to seat the two halves the top has a slightly larger gap than the bottom. I'll keep trying to line it up, but this is strange and frustrating.

[cowpuc]

Is it not spinning freely without the caliper on or with Frodo.. Just a thought to make sure brake pad drag isnt causing the non free wheeling aspect if the caliper is in place.. If the drag is not associated with the caliper, please keep in mind that the rear wheel does not normally spin exactly free any way, its not like having a rear wheel resting on a stand while rolling it on its bearings - there is a lot of friction going on there from the drive train..

Maybe try spinning it without the seal and then with the seal to see if the seal is whats causing the drag... Also be sure that all the bushings - washers are in and in the right place so the assembly isnt being pinched when you capture it when tightening axle..

[cowpuc]

Oh, by the way, OUTSTANDING you found a new seal!!

[frodotoo]

Caliper is off and everything else is in it's proper place. It spins freely until I tighten down the axle nut and then it stops period. Can't figure it out???

[GAWildKat]

Wow, you guys were almost in my neck of the woods being in Tooca, I'm just another couple hrs down the road lol. Hope you sort out the issue with the seal shortly.

[videoarizona]

Steve, Put the axle back in place without anything else. Does it move in/out freely? It should. If not...your pumpkin is out of line. Loosen the four pumpkin nuts, put axle back in...tighten nuts. Try axle again. Should move in/out of the rear arm holes easily. (long shot)

 

When you tighten the axle nut, you are compressing everything into position. So there is movement between the swing arm, the bushings/bearings...etc..

Tighten the axle nut then look at the caliper, the washer, etc., can the axle still turn with a screwdriver in hole? What's to tight?

 

The next step would be to go back to beginning and re-assemble everything..making sure the washers and stuff are in the proper place AND direction. (if memory serves isn't there a piece or two that needs to be facing one way??)

 

OH...are the swing arm bushings good? Not compressing something in the arm?

Just trying to think out loud here...

Hope you can find it...

david

[cowpuc]

Just an FYI here folks,, I spoke to Frodo on the phone earlier today and it sounded like they had narrowed down the issue to a needle bearing that had gotten knocked apart in the process of having a tire changed.. Hope Steve dont mind me filling in some gaps here (sorry Frodo if I am out of line) but I thought it might help if there are folks who are wondering if Frodo is ok..

Hope you got her back together and are up and running brother!!

Puc

[eusa1]

guess a few of us have learned something after all.

 

glad your back on the road

[cowpuc]

guess a few of us have learned something after all.

 

glad your back on the road

 

INDEED Eusa1 - I hear that loud and clear!! I am sooooo sorry that this all had to happen to my good friend @frodotoo BUT I really think there is much to be learned from the incident, maybe a thing or two that should find its way into the read only section here on VR.. In following his thread and then hearing about what the final outcome was some stuff occurred to me.

##PLEASE NOTE## THE FOLLOWING IS JUST SPECULATION (ON MY PART) AS A RESULT OF A VERY SHORT CONVERSATION I HAD WITH FRODOTOO!! Hopefully anything here that is not correct, someone will correct for me:

Apparently a needle bearing in the rear wheel lost some needles when the person who changed the rear tire on the type of changer that uses a shaft thru the axle area placed the wheel on the changer. It sounds like it was one (or more) of those, now free from their race, needles that was ultimately causing the binding that Frodo was getting as he tightened the axle.. I do my own tire work, even on the road, and, possibly because I just use spoons -' had never heard of such a thing. I have dealt with needle bearings many times in the past and can fully see where this would be possible if used in the application we are talking about. If my understanding of Frodo's incident is correct - I feel it would be highly benificial to our members here to have a small warning issued - maybe in the "read only section" pointing future flat tire victims to the possibility of this event happening as the result of using that type of tire changer..

 

FRODO - I SINCERELY HOPE YOU ARE NOW HAVING THE TIME OF YOUR LIFE DOWN THERE AND THAT ALL IS WELL MY FRIEND!!

[frodotoo]

INDEED Eusa1 - I hear that loud and clear!! I am sooooo sorry that this all had to happen to my good friend @frodotoo BUT I really think there is much to be learned from the incident, maybe a thing or two that should find its way into the read only section here on VR.. In following his thread and then hearing about what the final outcome was some stuff occurred to me.

##PLEASE NOTE## THE FOLLOWING IS JUST SPECULATION (ON MY PART) AS A RESULT OF A VERY SHORT CONVERSATION I HAD WITH FRODOTOO!! Hopefully anything here that is not correct, someone will correct for me:

Apparently a needle bearing in the rear wheel lost some needles when the person who changed the rear tire on the type of changer that uses a shaft thru the axle area placed the wheel on the changer. It sounds like it was one (or more) of those, now free from their race, needles that was ultimately causing the binding that Frodo was getting as he tightened the axle.. I do my own tire work, even on the road, and, possibly because I just use spoons -' had never heard of such a thing. I have dealt with needle bearings many times in the past and can fully see where this would be possible if used in the application we are talking about. If my understanding of Frodo's incident is correct - I feel it would be highly benificial to our members here to have a small warning issued - maybe in the "read only section" pointing future flat tire victims to the possibility of this event happening as the result of using that type of tire changer..

 

FRODO - I SINCERELY HOPE YOU ARE NOW HAVING THE TIME OF YOUR LIFE DOWN THERE AND THAT ALL IS WELL MY FRIEND!!

 

 

 

Well what happened was when the tire was being changed the shaft used to hold the wheel in place pushed out a collar/spacer or whatever you want to call it. Without that in there the wheel and drive were pulled too close together and they were also flexing, possibly the reason the hub dust seal broke (although it was extremely brittle)None of the repair manual pics showed the part in the diagrams, nor was it pictured in any parts catalog online (Partzilla, etc). Thank good ness Orlin Engh is my friend and knows more about the Venture than I will ever learn in my lifetime. He saw on a pic that I sent him that it was missing and we then contacted the dealer/repair shop and the part was left where I could get it. Once that part was in place everything came together in less than 45 mintutes and I was back on the road today. I did lose two full days of vacation and riding down here, plus time and money spent running around obtaining parts. When I get home after cooling off I plan on calling back down to Blairsville and seeing what if anyting he'll do about it. NEW LESSON: Pictures of each step and area I'm working on to show what's there and where it goes. Thanks to everyone who volunteered help and especially Orlin in Wisconsin and Rick & Brian and Bob here in NC for getting me two days back to ride of our 7 days here.

[OrlinEngh]

Glad I was of help, And you are back on the road and get to enjoy the rest of your vacation.