RSV Front Tire Size Recap

[V7Goose]

At the risk of redundancy with many other threads, I thought I would recap all of my experiences with front tire choice on the RSV. I'll try to keep this fairly short, but some of you may know how hard that is for me!

 

I did a lot of testing on various tires (both sizes and brands), and I was one of the very vocal members a couple of years ago who posted so much about how great an improvement the narrower MT90 or 130/90 front tire was over the stock 150/80 size. Since then I have amassed even more comparisons and have come to these conclusions:

• The stock Brickstone 150/80 front tire is the WORST possible tire you can use if you have not raised the rear with shorter suspension links. ANY other front tire will be a vast improvement.
  
• Raising the rear of the bike 1" with the Leveling Links will make even the stock Brickstone 150/80 front tire handle like any good tire.
  
• Poor handling is not just related to the front tire size. In fact, any rear tire that begins to flatten out in the center from too much straight line riding will make this bike track grooves and jump around on surface irregularities. And the stock Brickstone rear tire is the ABSOLUTE WORST for this!

Since my initial testing with my 05 RSV which came with the ****ty stock Brickstone tires, I have been able to compare a stock 07 RSV that came with Dunlop tires, and a stock 07 RSV that had Avon tires in stock size. In both of those cases, the bike felt agile and nimble with none of the horrid slow speed heaviness of an RSV with stock Brickstone tires. Since most RSVs come with Bricksones, but a few lucky ones get Dunlop 404s, I think this explains why so many new owners complain about the heaviness and slow speed handling, while a few new owners say "Huh? Feels fine to me."

 

Bottom line, although I think the MT90 front tire is a good tire for the RSV, I no longer recommend it at all. IMHO, if you have raised the rear of the bike with the Leveling Links, the narrower front tire makes the bike a bit squirrelly as the rear tire begins to wear flat. And even with the stock suspension links, I have found that any other good tire in stock size on the front makes the RSV handle just fine at slow speed (note that this EXCLUDES the Brickstone front tire).

 

So, for those of you who have not already made up your mind on tire brand and size, here is what I recommend:

1. If you have Brickstones, get rid of them immediately. They make the RSV and unpleasant bike to ride, and sometimes a dangerous bike to ride. The only exception to this is if you raise the rear with Leveling links, then the FRONT Brickstone will handle fine and last long time.
   
2. Decide on any other brand of tire and buy stock sizes, front and rear. I personally will never trust my life to Metzeler tires on this bike (see plenty of other posts on this subject), but even if Metzeler is your brand of choice, the bike will handle just fine with stock tire sizes until the rear tire begins to come apart on you. Sorry, I just could not avoid that bit of editorializing!

Good luck and ride safe,

Goose

[Tom]

Goose,although I never tried the smaller size front tire and I do not have leveling links I can tell anyone that just the change to Avon STOCK size tires made my bike much easier in handling. Mine came with Dunlops and I can say they wore well but they were horrible on our Texas roads that had grooves cut in the road. I do not knock the guys with Metz and I hope they have continued success but please watch them close,mine failed at 1700 miles.

[Gambler]

Goose

Thanks for the unbiased study, gives us more info for us to make our choice

 

Gambler

[Missionary Rider]

Goose,

I read your previous thread with great interest. The links are here and they plus Avons in stock sizes will go on as soon as I get back from five weeks in Mexico. Thanks for doing the research and sharing the findings in a very understandable way.

Lynn

[Gary N.]

I have to agree with you Goose. Although I only put about 5000 miles on the Avons before my accident I was not overly impressed with the smaller front tire. I found that real slow speed maneuvers were a bit hair raising. Maybe it was just me. I did manage to drop the bike once for no apparent reason just before a complete stop. A half dozen members here can attest to that.

I had always used stock sized Dunlops up until then and think that's what I'll put on the '06. From what I've read on here it doesn't sound like there's much of an improvement in tire mileage with the Avons. I can't say anything one way or another as I didn't get to wear mine out. The Dunlops always gave me 12,000 to 15,000 miles. I just find it hard to justify the extra expense of the Avons over the Dunlops. JMHO

[Yamaman]

Thanks for posting this. I am in need of a new front and I had understood that moving to the smaller size was almost unanimously approved of here. It helps to see an alternative viewpoint. I will now have to rethink or further research my decision.

[V7Goose]

When I first tried the Avon MT90 on my 05 RSV, I had been suffering with the terrible performance from the stock Brickstone 150/80 for about 6,000 miles. I was completely astounded by the dramatic improvement in slow speed handling, and frankly, I just could not imagine that such a major change could have come from anything other than the narrower tire size. I assumed that all tires in the stock 150/80 size would share basic handling characteristics, so such a dramatic change must have come from the narrower size and not the different brand. Much of this assumption was supported by my experiences on lots of different bikes since the late '60s, and probably over a hundred different tires.

 

I know now that my assumption was wrong. Although the MT90 tire did add some additional low speed handling improvements, the majority of the change came from simply mounting any other tire than the grossly misshapen Brickstone 150/80-16. I have compared Avon, Dunlop and Pirelli tires on the RSV, and although they each have specific characteristics which can cause different riders to prefer one over another, ALL of them are phenomenally better than the Brickstones! I have never found such a major difference in handling between different tires in the same size on the same bike as I did when getting rid of the Brickstones on the RSV.

Goose

 

BTW - my personal preference today is still for the Avon Venom tires on the RSV (in stock size, with shorter suspension links to raise the rear of the bike by 1").

[Midrsv]

Thanks Goose,

 

On my '04 I tried the smaller front tire (Avon) and found that it did improve my slow speed handling somewhat, I found that at highway speeds the bike did not feel as "sure footed" on surface transitions and grooved highways. On the next set of tires I went back to the stock size. My '07 has the Brickstones and I am trying to wait until May to put Avons on just before a big trip. I'm not sure I can wait another month.

 

DT

[BigShell]

I remember one of our discussions... probably from before the crash. You did the smaller front tire first and then the leveling links and found the biggest percent improvement from going to the smaller tire. I did the links first, then the smaller front tire. I had found the biggest percent improvement from the links change. At the the time, the conclusion seemed to be that what you did first made the biggest impact on you and felt like the biggest change.

 

You went Brickstone to Avon... I went Dunlop to Avon. Now we know why you felt a bigger change in handling with the tire change than I did.

 

I still suggest the links if the extra height isn't a problem for you. I found a noticeable (on the good side) improvement in low speed maneuvering with the extra height in the rear.

[Rick Butler]

Kent,

 

I mostly agree with your suggestion that a RSV will handle just fine with "Leveling Links" and a 150/80 front tire. Finally all of the major manufactures are making a 150 front tire for the RSV. For the longest time you had to settle for a secondary tire like a D404 when the 130/90 (or MT90) was available in any tire.

 

However I have been running the narrower front 130/90 with Leveling Links for so long that I don't feel comfortable on anything else. I have recently ridden a friends Midnight with leveling links and an Avon Venom 150/80 front tire and it still feels lazy in the turns. But I am certainly a more aggressive rider that most RSV riders. I still remember what it was like to thrash the Arkansas Ozarks on my 1st gens. But on this bike we had a 120 on the front and a 140 on the rear. So really a 130 front with a 150 rear on a RSV is not that far out of line? My move to a 130 front tire and later to develop the leveling links was primarily an attempt to make the RSV handle as good as the earlier Venture Royale.

 

But if any of you don't wish to install the leveling links but want a better handling bike, then changing out to a 130/90 front tire is certainly a good change. And for those of you who are inseamed challenged, I also endorse lowering the front end to achieve the same attitude change that the leveling links provide. Thusly if better handling of no interest then stay with stock and the status quo.

 

But also remember that "The best you have ever ridden, is the best that you will ever know".

 

JMHO,

 

Rick

[V7Goose]

Hey Rick, we don't think very far apart on this. True, I dislike the combination of the raised rear end and the MT90 front tire, whereas you like it, but we should be able to make room for personal preferences. I still maintain that I notice a significant degradation in the handling of the bike on irregular road surfaces when running both and the rear tire gets near the end of life, and I don't have the same problem when running stock front tire on a raised bike.

 

I do not, however, think it is valid to compare tire sizes from one model of bike to another; there are just too many variables that change the handling characteristics. Just think about how significant the change is on the RSV by only raising the rear of the bike by one inch! I certainly do not think that a bike like the RSV needs to have tires as fat or small as Yamaha put on it, but the fact is that it was designed with these tires and handles pretty darn well when the right tires are used (we will ignore the stupidity of Yamahaha in selecting those terrible Brickstones as stock skin). The fact that a different bike handles well with different tire sizes than we use is immaterial to how the RSV will handle.

 

I'm no Johny Racer, but I think I do pretty good on the RSV. When I carve up the Ozarks on it, there seem to be darn few other bikes of any design catching me, and I absolutely refuse to cross the center line on curves (so I am not getting any extra speed by straightening them out in such a dangerous and irresponsible way). I don't know if that makes me more aggressive than average or not - I'll leave that for others to decide. I think this machine handles quite excellently with the raised rear and Avon Venoms in stock size. If I wasn't using the Leveling Links, I'm sure I would be running the MT90 up front. I do think it makes the stock RSV more sensitive and nimble, but I just no longer recommend it to others since I don't think it is necessary to make the stock bike handle well. If someone is already running on good tires and wants to experiment a bit to take the handling to the next level, then I think the narrower front tire is a good choice. Ride safe,

Goose

[Tour Deluxe]

I have been following these posts about tires for some time. Went to Avons w/ the MT90 8K miles ago on my 05RSTD, Looks like there gonna make a easy 10K. This thing handles great. I am very pleased w/ handling and durability (Bridgestones Sucked). Thanks for your reseach. Just put the Avons on my 06RSV. Maybe next time I will try stock sizes, but I'm happy w/ the smaller tire for now.

 

Thanks again: Will

[RoadKill]

I do NOT have the leveling links, but I did go to the smaller front and have been very pleased with the handling on all surfaces and especially in rain. I have found that of the relatively few bikes I have owned compared to some here, that any time the rear tires wear unevenly or are needing changed handling has been compromised significantly. Since I have no plans to do the leveling links, I will stay with the MT90.

 

Goose,

I really appreciate and respect your opinions on this. thanks.

[hig4s]

How much load do you put on your bike?

All stock size front tires have a load capacity of 761lbs, the Avon Venom MT90B-16 has a load rating of 827 lbs, another thing to consider.

 

Also the load rating on the rear Venom in stock size but with wide white walls, is 992lbs, most are 827lbs.

[V7Goose]

The stock rear tire for the RSV has a 74H load/speed rating.

 

The Avon Venom AM42 tire in 150/90-15 is available in both H and V speed ratings. The 80H is the tire most commonly used on the RSV and has a load capacity of 992 lbs (even in black wall) with a maximum speed of 130 MPH. The 74V tire has the same load rating as the stock rear tire (827 lbs) with a maximum speed of 149 MPH. In my experience, V rated tires wear out much faster than H rated tires (on both motorcycles and automobiles).

Goose

[RockinRuss]

Thank you all for sharing your experience. I plan to remove my flat stock Bridgestone this week and install a stock-sized Avon or Dunlop at the same time I remove the lowering kit and install the leveling links.

 

But...in the name of science, I couldn't help but wonder...how would it feel to remove an old used Avon or Dunlop and replace it with a new Bridgestone? My guess is that no one has done that. All this bashing of Bridgestone is after feeling the improvement by removing an old and/or used Bridgestone and replacing it with a new different brand. The credit has been given to the different brand when I have to imagine some of the change should be attributed to the fact that it is just plain new.

 

Russ

Bridgestone R&D Tech

 

(just kidding)

 

fyi: I have an '04 Midnight RSV, purchased 2 months ago with 6,600 miles and stock tires. Now it has almost 10,000 miles, and will have 11,000 miles in two more weeks. I love my new touring bike!!

[gibvel]

Thank you all for sharing your experience. I plan to remove my flat stock Bridgestone this week and install a stock-sized Avon or Dunlop at the same time I remove the lowering kit and install the leveling links.

 

But...in the name of science, I couldn't help but wonder...how would it feel to remove an old used Avon or Dunlop and replace it with a new Bridgestone? My guess is that no one has done that. All this bashing of Bridgestone is after feeling the improvement by removing an old and/or used Bridgestone and replacing it with a new different brand. The credit has been given to the different brand when I have to imagine some of the change should be attributed to the fact that it is just plain new.

 

Russ

Bridgestone R&D Tech

 

(just kidding)

 

fyi: I have an '04 Midnight RSV, purchased 2 months ago with 6,600 miles and stock tires. Now it has almost 10,000 miles, and will have 11,000 miles in two more weeks. I love my new touring bike!!

 

Hey Russ,

 

I believe, in fact, that Goose DID install a new, or nearly new, Bridgestone rear and said that the handling with the different front tire (other than Bridgestone) was better than with the worn rear Bridgestone but still not as good as most other tires that he's tried.

 

Hopefully he'll chime in with more of his findings with them.

[V7Goose]

Hey Russ,

 

I believe, in fact, that Goose DID install a new, or nearly new, Bridgestone rear and said that the handling with the different front tire (other than Bridgestone) was better than with the worn rear Bridgestone but still not as good as most other tires that he's tried.

 

Hopefully he'll chime in with more of his findings with them.

Actually that is backward. In part of my testing I had a nearly new Avon rear tire and re-mounted a good Brickstone stock front tire, expecting the horrible slow speed heaviness and jerkiness over uneven road surfaces to return. I was quite surprised to find that the tracking and jerkiness had been caused by the cruddy Brickstone REAR tire, not the font as I had believed. With a good Avon rear tire, the bike tracked great and was mostly immune to ridges and grooves. In addition, since I had the leveling links on at the time of this test, the nasty slow speed heaviness did not really come back either.

 

Just to clear up RockinRuss' misconception that assumed my only testing consisted of taking off an OLD Brickstone and putting on a new tire of a different brand - NOT SO! "All this bashing of Bridgestone is after feeling the improvement by removing an old and/or used Bridgestone and replacing it with a new different brand," is NOT correct.

 

My bashing of the horrible handling, the excessively heavy feeling, and the attempt of the bike to force the forks into a full-lock condition as soon as you committed to any slow speed turn began even before I purchased my first RSV - during the test ride! At that time I did not know it was 99% caused by those horrible tires, but I learned that by extensive testing and comparison.

 

My complaints about how poor the Brickstones gripped and how easy they consistently busted loose on 2nd and 3rd gear acceleration came from riding on them for 8,000 miles, and then riding on lots of different tires on the same bike for another 50,000 miles. My complaints about the terrible howling on even slight leans and lane weaving came from riding on them for 8,000 miles and then comparing that to other tires for 50,000 miles. My complaints on how fast and FLAT the rear Brickstone tire wore and how it was very dangerous in that condition when it violently jerked the bike around over pavement ridges came from actually riding that tire from new to dangerous, then wearing out 3 Avon rear tires on the same bike and noting how they did NOT get either as flat OR ever cause the bike to violently jerk when encountering pavement ridges.

Goose

[OB-1]

And to further cloud the issue; I had no handling complaints with my original Bridgestone tires. The mileage wasn’t very good as I only got about 8500 miles out of the set.

I don’t have leveling links and think the bike handles just fine at slow speed, for an 800+ pound motorcycle. With proper use of the clutch, throttle, & rear brake I can do full lock U-turns, two up and fully loaded. This maneuver should be mastered for those that wish to ride through Buffalo country like Custer Sate Park in SD or Yellowstone National Park.

[Jethroish]

Good reading. I put the leveling links on my bike within the first 2500 miles. Made a big difference to me. My bike came with D404s. Now at 13,000 miles, I just ordered a set of Dunlop Elite 3s in stock size. The 404s have wore quite well for me. I hope to see a little improvement over the 404s.

I considered the Avons, but as said ealier, I have gotten good wear out of Dunlops on both my RSV and wife's VStar and therefore could not justify the higher price for Avons.

BTW, got the Elites from SWMoto for $235.

[V7Goose]

And to further cloud the issue; I had no handling complaints with my original Bridgestone tires. The mileage wasn’t very good as I only got about 8500 miles out of the set.

 

I don’t have leveling links and think the bike handles just fine at slow speed, for an 800+ pound motorcycle. With proper use of the clutch, throttle, & rear brake I can do full lock U-turns, two up and fully loaded. This maneuver should be mastered for those that wish to ride through Buffalo country like Custer Sate Park in SD or Yellowstone National Park.

Under most conditions, I found the handling of the stock Brickstone tires quite acceptable too. Despite the heavy feeling and tendency fall into a slow-speed turn, I had no trouble handling the bike and doing U-turns where I needed. But just because I COULD does not mean that it was good. Just because I have the ability to handle a big heavy bike with less than great handling doesn't mean that I SHOULD ACCEPT IT when there are such easy improvements available. You qualified your statement about handling just fine by finding it necessary to make an excuse for an 800 lb bike. With the right suspension settings and tires, this bike does NOT feel like an 800 lb bike - actually much lighter.

 

It is not important to me that you, or anyone, share my opinion, but it IS important to me that I do not mislead anyone. In addition, when I think my experience or expertise in something can help others, I want to share it.

 

As I said first here, under most conditions I found the stock tires OK - not good, but OK. But I put a LOT of miles on my bikes, and I ride in a lot of different conditions. The most significant for this discussion was where there was a lot of road repairs and resurfacing. When I encountered significant uneven lane height (approx 1/2" or more), the flattening Brickstone rear tire was absolutely dangerous in my opinion. Equally worn Avons were NOT dangerous on the exact same roads in my opinion. Ride safe, on whatever you choose,

Goose

[OB-1]

Take it easy Goose, we’re both expressing valid opinions based upon our own experiences.

It seems that many people posting here think the low speed handling of the RSV is poor and that the stock Bridgestone’s are terrible. I simply don’t agree with either of those positions. I’m not raving about the Bridgestone’s, but mine never exhibited poor handling nor anything close to dangerous handling under any conditions. I haven’t tried a smaller front tire or leveling links because to me, these are fixes for nonexistent problems. Again, my opinion, which is just as valid everyone elses.

[bigjohn52]

you guys are killing me just put the smaller size mt 90 avon and stock rear on my 08 rsv cant belive what a diff handling much better rideing about 40 years and love the bike no leveling links or suspension changes goose i love this setup turning in parking lot and handling 100% better thanks

[1BigDog]

Im running the Avon 130's up front for the first time this year. It took a little getting used to since I was used to wrestling the bike into turns. I almost dropped it a few times since it now steered so easily. My only complaint is that it does not seem to be as stable as the 150 over 95 mph. Now, I dont usually ride that fast but on occasion...well...you know... I had no problems going over the century mark with the 150's though. When these need replacement I just might go with the leveling links and a 150 Avon again.

 

AND NO METZELERS EITHER!!!

[V7Goose]

I periodically get questions and see new threads on the various tire subjects, and the choice of front tire size is still a common subject. This old thread from 2008 still covers a lot of that information fine, but was rarely being seen due to the advanced age. for that reason, I am making it a sticky in the 2nd gen tech section.

Goose