Group Riding

[Ride2much]

How do you group riders ride to allow traffic to flow around you? My wife and I were riding Saturday and came upon a group of fifteen Harley riders,their speed ranged form 50 MPH to 70ish in a 65MPH zone. I was real frustrated trying to get around them with fairly heavy traffic.I am used to the line riders moving to the right and allowing another bike to pass the group,They would not budge, I made it around four of them and then would have been trapped for 20 miles. I did not want to be in their group and it was obvious they did not want me there,but like I said they would not move over. In my younger and not so smart ego days, I would have weaved in and out until I made it through. Cars were stacked up behind this group, and one finely blew past everyone including me.This was a bad situation so we pulled over and waited the mess out. What is right here? or wrong?

Edited June 26, 2015 by Ride2much

[videoarizona]

This does seem to be an issue with some HD groups. I've seen them do this in the left lane....cars passing on right. Law in this state is to move to right lane...

[ragtop69gs]

2 lane road? Paved shoulders, city or rural?

[cowpuc]

Yep,, what Raggy asked..

Either way though, I think it best to remember a person (or people if traveling together) on a bike/bikes is no different than that of a cager/cagers.. He/she has full right to ride at whatever speed they want, if they wanna drive like geezers on a sunday cruise - they have that right. If they wanna speed, they pay the occasional speeding ticket like the rest of us have had to - their choice..

To avoid obviously angry drivers - I know I have pulled over in my car and let other cars pass lots of times - to many crazy folks out there to even give it a chance to become a road rage incident = aint worth the hassle. Usually the other way around if I am on Tweeks - just something magic about wicking it up to avoid road rage.. When I am on the scoot or in the car and on the ick-spressway and I come to a group of cars or bikes battling it out for position (especially if there is a Tractor Trailer involved in the mix) - I will usually sand bag and let the folks who are in a hurry battle it out.. Then when it gets all clear I will let Tweeks speak for herself until I am back in control again with a couple miles between me and the group. That isnt as much fun or as easy in our gutless Kia..

 

I personally dont see any difference between a group of cars or group of bikes..

 

On another note, when in my car I really dont mind driving surrounded by Harley groups (or any other bike group) - I feel right at home with em and usually become part of their scene by all my obvious ohhhing and aweing... That means if they dont know how to group ride and stay in formation - I will inadvertently end up in the middle of the pac, dont bother me a bit.. I have had a number of times thru the years where this bothered the lead bike riders enough though that they eventually pulled over and waited for their group to reform.. Perfectly their choice and their perogative..

I always try to remember this one thing about bikes and bikers.. Just because they CAN ride side by side or form a single file to allow traffic to pass does not mean they have to!! Every bike has full right to a full lane all to themselves - if they are there they own it. If we are talking two lane road here and you have a bike pull over to allow you room to pass by sharing his lane - in our neck of the woods you can get ticketed for that..

We have a lot of Mopeds in our area - not to long ago a friend of mine was ticketed for pulling his Moped off onto the shoulder of the road to allow cars to pass him - 45 mph road, moped would only go 25. The LEO that issued the ticket to him explained that his Moped was no different than if he would have been driving his car and that 25 in a 45 was not illegal but trying to be courteous and letting the cars past was...

Concerning staying out of the left lane (passing lane),, I know it sounds crazy but when on my bike and on the ick-spressway I ride that lane a LOT!! I do move over though if someone happens to be wanting to pass (kind of unusal though cause I tend to ride faster than traffic - keeps me in control (at least I "feel" that way). I ride that outside lane for many reasons (less truck damage, ect..) but I mainly do it cause I was born and raised in Deer country and I really really like to have the extra distance away from the inside shoulder where a 160 pound white tail can suddenly pop out and pay me back for all of his ancestor's I killed with my bow/rifle.. I have avoided them more than once in my riding career by doing this.. I was stopped a couple years ago up on I-75 (near Mackinaw City) by one of our finest - Michigan State Police - for doing exactly what I am talking about.. No other cars on the ick-way - he was setting in median running radar.. I go by, few miles over as usual and riding in the passing lane.. Pulled me over and asked why I was riding the outside and that it was illegal.. I asked if he was a biker and, ironically he said he was.. I explained to him why I was doing what I was doing,, he actually nodded and said it made sense.. I told him that even if he wrote me a ticket I would probablyl continue to do so cause a couple hundred dollar fine was better than increasing my vulnerability to deer.. He smiled and said - I get it - have a nice day..

[Great White]

I'm going to hold back my opinion because it won't be nice and it won't be popular.

 

All I'll say is groups I ride with stay at/under the speed limit and appropriate for road/traffic conditions.

 

Basically we flow with traffic and don't obstruct it.

 

We use the road, we don't own it....

[ragtop69gs]

Like the 2 above said. When in a group ride the lead bike with the help of a tailgunner,has the responsibility to lead the group safely to their destination, depending on the road/traffic conditions he may have felt it unsafe to pull over. I have seen the situation you described even during some of our VRO group rides. Often it's a mix of experienced and novice riders that can create the rubber band effect putting large holes in the group,, that's a rider problem, NOT a Harley problem.

 

Courtesy is optional and often an unknown trait on the roads of America.

 

Like Puc said, all those bikes paid their road tax and have every right to be there.

[Eck]

(Quote) This was a bad situation so we pulled over and waited the mess out.

 

Im sure you knew this was becoming a bad situation way before it did. When their is a large group like this I just pull over and get out and stretch and buy some time to let them have the road and get way ahead of me. I mean they surely aren't going to pull over and let all the traffic go ...We all know that from the start as soon as we get behind them.

 

When I lead large or small groups I don't like cages to squeeze in the group either., It makes it very unsafe in my opinion.

 

I think you finally did the right thing by pulling over.

[midnightrider1300]

I have led a LOT of group rides, some with as many as 40 bikes.... on 2 & 4 lane roads we ride staggered, on smaller county roads we ride single file.... With 15 bikes you can not pull off and on just to let people by, to hard to keep bikes together and find a pull off place that is safe... sounds like they were traveling speed limit + 5 in most cases so that shouldn't hinder any1 unless some1 is in a BIG hurry and speeding excessively.... We as bikers don't own the road , but we have the same right to ride as long as it safe & within the laws. I would never get in the middle of group ride that I wasn't riding with, 1 because you have no clue as to the skill of the riders, 2 it can get ugly if it is a club or gang....like others have stated if you don't want to follow pull over and give them plenty of time & space...

 

Now if it was a 4 lane and they are taking up both lanes that is all together a different scenario .....

 

1 more thing I agree with Eck about cars squeezing in that is never a good thing........

[videoarizona]

2 lane road? Paved shoulders, city or rural?

 

 

4 lane....divided.

[MikeWa]

Slow vehicles blocking five cars or more is illegal in some states. Many two lane roads have 'pull offs' for slow vehicles to pull over and allow others to pass. Problem is some drivers do not realize they are going too slow. And some drivers do not realize they are going too fast. Pull outs may not accommodate a group of bikes and shoulders may not be available. Either way I believe in being extra courteous when I am on my motorcycle. I can't speak to the scenario above. I can only say be as safe and courteous as conditions allow.

 

Mike

[Great White]

Personally, I find much more than 4-6 riders together to be a major PITA. Once you're over that number, odds are you're going to have people of very different skill levels, ethos, patience/impatience, etc.

 

I also find over 4-6 riders clogs up too much of a span on a 2 lane road, making it nearly impossible for someone to pass if they want to.

 

If I'm doing the speed limit and someone wants to pass at a faster clip, I want them to go around. I don't want them behind me pushing until they feel they can take a chance to rip by. That's not safe for anyone.

 

I've had a couple times when ....*ahem*....."people" have ripped around me only to be laughing at them getting a ticket further down the road or me pulling over to say "are you alright" when their car has become a tangled wreck. As far as I'm concerned if they want to go then I let them. Let them deal with the consequences of their actions far away from me...

 

I avoid those groups that are miles long rows of bikes. It may look cool, but it's a bit ignorant to other drivers and usually nothing but trouble. Unless it's a ride for sight, toys for tots ride or similar event. Those are slow, organized, publicly sanctioned and usually police escorted.

 

I've been "ride boss" on a couple big groups. The law I always lay down is no more than 4-6 in a bunch. Anymore than that and we split into equal groups and they're not allowed to "link up" into a big slinky. The groups that big usually split into guys who want to go fast in the first group, guys that just want to enjoy the ride in the second group and the "plonkers" in the last group.

 

We all get to the destination happy and ready for more. Fast guys already have a coffee downrange and almost done talking about their "hero" moves (or scares), second group is usually just sitting down with their coffee and pulling out go pros and such and the last group is usually just pulling in with coffee on their minds and glad to be alive. Everyone seems to enjoy the ride much more when I've run them like that instead of a big long slinky where everyone is on and off the throttle or forced to ride like the slowest in the bunch. Other drivers on the road don't seem to give us trouble that way either. Each group only takes up about the length of a semi (or less), so it's very manageable with traffic...

 

Edited June 25, 2015 by Great White

[slowrollwv]

The biggest group that I was in there was 3,500 bikes. This was the first Sunday of June this year. The ride was about 45 miles long and we road I-81 for most of it. There were soma cars that slid in between the bikes and that was OK because we knew that this would happen.

[MiCarl]

This is tough because there are so many variables, but will share my thoughts on leading a group ride:

 

The number one thing we try to avoid is situations where other drivers are tempted to "make" space to move through the group. On and off ramps are prime places for that to happen because many drivers either don't know how or fail to plan their entrance/egress. We avoid the right lane in areas with lots of ramp traffic.

 

If we're in the left lane drivers are tempted to try and pass on the right. Then when they come up on a slow vehicle they "make" room in the left lane. When I'm leading a group in the left lane I stretch the speed limit a bit hoping to reduce the chance of an impatient driver coming around.

 

The worst scenario is lots of traffic, fast lane moving at the speed limit, slower traffic in the right lane and ramp traffic. It's a no win situation.

 

My favorite freeways are the ones with three or more lanes going our direction. We can get in the center and leave all the problems to our left and right (except the one going 90 in the fast lane then deciding to exit with only 100 feet to cross the whole freeway).

 

When I lead a group I try to stay in the right lane except areas of heavy ramp traffic. I look well ahead and watch for groups of cars bunching up onto the ramp which will lead to one or more "making" room to pass through the group. If I see that coming I try to move the group left.

 

Making all this work requires good communication between the lead and drag bikes. For this reason we have a rule that on any group ride both the lead and drag bikes must have CB radios. A good tail gunner will also have his eyes peeled and keep the lead informed of anything he sees going on. It also requires skill and attentiveness from everyone in the group.

 

Group riding can be a lot of fun, but it's a lot of work for everyone involved. Sometimes though it's just a pack of bikes chasing another down the road - dangerous for the riders and other vehicles. I'm always very impressed when I see a group of skilled riders that is capably led, it's like watching a precision drill team.

[Karaboo]

There are some similarities to our snowmobile club rides in a few of the above posts. We also tend to split into groups. I use to stick to the "wick it up and roost the trails" group, but lately I have been leading the touring riders on a more sane pace. We all follow the same guidelines and most of us have been involved with teaching or helping at the safety training courses. Some of us even do the trail grooming (that's why I quit ripping up the trails).

[Ride2much]

2 lane road? Paved shoulders, city or rural?

Two lane road,rural setting,The bikes were staggered in the correct lane,most of the time doing about 50-55mph,speed limit 65mph,with so much oncoming traffic,impossible to pass all of them at once,except the car that chanced it and made it,I followed them for about 5 miles with cars stacking up behind me. I thought the back three bikes were moving to the right of the lane to allow me to pass,so I did,then ran into a road block. In Idaho it is perfectly acceptable to share a lane on a bike and even ride side by side if you are crazy enough. The frustrated cars were taking it out on little old innocent me, tail gating swinging out into the oncoming lane looking for a hole. This road did not have a decent shoulder or turn out for the 5 miles,I did find one eventually and pulled off. I guess my thoughts are a group should at least try and ride the speed limit,then there would be no reason to try and pass.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Ride2much

[Marcarl]

Got me all thinking and then maybe helping.

1) groups are not to be more than 10,, less would be nicer.

2) road captain and tailgunner must have communications. They have work to do and can't fall asleep. Don't want to work,,, don't be either!!!

3) forget the speed limit,, ride with traffic. If you can't ride that fast, pick another road. You may be able to go slower, but if you're holding up any traffic you're asking for trouble.

4) Don't,,, repeat, don't make room for a cage to pass you in your lane. It may seem to be a nice thing to do, but what if all of a sudden there is oncoming traffic???? they will take you out in a heartbeat.

5) Don't slow down for cops,,, they're there to protect you and if you slow down and bunch up traffic behind you, there is a good chance you'll get an award for doing so.

6) If you're going to group ride, watch the traffic. when nobody, yes nobody is around, take up 5 miles if you like, but if there is traffic stay together,,, 2 seconds behind the bike in front of you. Any further than that and you become a new group with you as the RC.

7) ride staggered, with the RC and TG in the same track. This is to protect the group, define the group and make sure that everybody is where they belong.

8) Use right lane when feasible, but when on-ramps get busy, get away from that problem area, maybe shuffle on over to the left and pickup some speed.

9) everybody rides their own ride,,, nobody is stuck with the group. If you don't like what the group is doing, get out. Your mind is no longer on riding safe as a group, but you are now getting ticked about others and the self focus is gone, and remember, if you back off and leave too much room you are now your own group anyways.

10) when on a 4 lane, ride staggered, when on country roads with no traffic, ride single if the RC allows. Enjoy the ride whenever possible.

11) take a break every hour to hour and half. It can get mesmerizing riding steady at a given pace. Play it safe and give time for camaraderie. Also helps to get the mind back to riding rather than how sore the butt is, or the stiffness of the legs, or 'I got to go P' syndrome.

12) everybody starts with a full tank,,, full tank!

13) lastly or maybe this should have been firstly,,,, you're riding in a group, be a group. Groups do things together, care for each other and others, and if there are too many, it's no longer a group but a congregation, and in a congregation there are too many opposing opinions to work together smoothly as a group should. 10 riders max!!! if there are 11, it's 2 groups, 5 and 6. Ride safe, enjoy!

[StarFan]

Got me all thinking and then maybe helping.

1) groups are not to be more than 10,, less would be nicer.

2) road captain and tailgunner must have communications. They have work to do and can't fall asleep. Don't want to work,,, don't be either!!!

3) forget the speed limit,, ride with traffic. If you can't ride that fast, pick another road. You may be able to go slower, but if you're holding up any traffic you're asking for trouble.

4) Don't,,, repeat, don't make room for a cage to pass you in your lane. It may seem to be a nice thing to do, but what if all of a sudden there is oncoming traffic???? they will take you out in a heartbeat.

5) Don't slow down for cops,,, they're there to protect you and if you slow down and bunch up traffic behind you, there is a good chance you'll get an award for doing so.

6) If you're going to group ride, watch the traffic. when nobody, yes nobody is around, take up 5 miles if you like, but if there is traffic stay together,,, 2 seconds behind the bike in front of you. Any further than that and you become a new group with you as the RC.

7) ride staggered, with the RC and TG in the same track. This is to protect the group, define the group and make sure that everybody is where they belong.

8) Use right lane when feasible, but when on-ramps get busy, get away from that problem area, maybe shuffle on over to the left and pickup some speed.

9) everybody rides their own ride,,, nobody is stuck with the group. If you don't like what the group is doing, get out. Your mind is no longer on riding safe as a group, but you are now getting ticked about others and the self focus is gone, and remember, if you back off and leave too much room you are now your own group anyways.

10) when on a 4 lane, ride staggered, when on country roads with no traffic, ride single if the RC allows. Enjoy the ride whenever possible.

11) take a break every hour to hour and half. It can get mesmerizing riding steady at a given pace. Play it safe and give time for camaraderie. Also helps to get the mind back to riding rather than how sore the butt is, or the stiffness of the legs, or 'I got to go P' syndrome.

12) everybody starts with a full tank,,, full tank!

13) lastly or maybe this should have been firstly,,,, you're riding in a group, be a group. Groups do things together, care for each other and others, and if there are too many, it's no longer a group but a congregation, and in a congregation there are too many opposing opinions to work together smoothly as a group should. 10 riders max!!! if there are 11, it's 2 groups, 5 and 6. Ride safe, enjoy!

 

These are truly words of wisdom Carl. Where did you find this ?

[Wrench]

I guess I've been fortunate in my group riding experiences, they've always been pretty well organized and everybody kept up. There's a group of about 10 or 12 sport bike riders that I see on a regular basis riding between Radcliff and Elizabethtown on US 31W, which is a 4 lane divided hwy. They will all be in the right lane EXCEPT the 2 in the back, they are in the left lane in a staggered position, usually about a car length behind the ones on the right. I saw them last week and they were doing about 50, the speed limit is 55, but traffic is usually moving at about 60-65. There was a string of cars behind them in both lanes and the 2 guys in the left lane held that position for as long as I followed them.