Need to lift the rear a bit

[GaryZ]

I want to raise the rear of my '92 VR.

Looking at rear shocks on ebay I found some with an exposed spring (usually listed as '83) and others with a rubber boot.

Can anyone tell me what I'm looking at?

 

Could I replace the rear shock with a coil-wrapped shock that is a little bit longer?

[Prairiehammer]

I want to raise the rear of my '92 VR.

Looking at rear shocks on ebay I found some with an exposed spring (usually listed as '83) and others with a rubber boot.

Can anyone tell me what I'm looking at?

 

Could I replace the rear shock with a coil-wrapped shock that is a little bit longer?

 

For whatever reason, Yamaha made the STANDARD Venture shock with an internal spring (similar to the Second Gen) and the Royale with the external spring. One presumption I have is that the Royale being heavier had to have a spring (with more capacity) that would not fit within the shock body. Contrary to many comments over the years here, the rubber booted shock on the 1983-1985 Standard does indeed have a spring, it is just not visible since it is inside the shock housing.

Rick Butler Shock Diagram.PDF

[GaryZ]

Very good information . . . Thanks!

I think the stock coil-wrapped shock could be replaced with something a little longer.

I would need to know the spring rate needed to support an 800lb motorcycle carrying two full-sized adults.

Anyone???

[Great White]

You seem to be taking about 2 different things.

 

Do you need to increase the load capacity or do you need to raise the static height of the bike?

 

Capacity is done with a higher rate spring or more preload (less sag when loaded). Something we all need as our bikes get older and our butts get bigger!

 

 

Raising static height is done with longer linkage, a physically longer shock or a shock with adjustable length like so:

 

http://www.racelab.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/d/adj_l_5.jpg

 

Either solution is going to be a bit of a challenge as our bikes never had much aftermarket support suspension wise. Add to that these rigs are just plain OLD in the eyes of the aftermarket.

 

I've always had good dealings with racetech for custom spring rates and sizes, but that's always been for "sporty type" bikes. No idea what they might be able to do for something like an old Venture. Probably wouldn't be cheap either way.....

Edited June 4, 2015 by Great White

[GaryZ]

I'm pretty sure I said raise the rear of the bike for better ground clearance and quicker "turn-in".

Here is a picture of the stock shock. It has eyelets at both ends like many car shocks. I am wondering if I can find a coil-over that is 1" longer than the stock unit with adjustable damping. Prices seem to be around $150 for the shock. I would need to know a good spring-rate to use for an 800lb motorcycle. Springs seem to be around $38.

 

Less than $200 for a new rear shock assembly . . . Yes!

[greg_in_london]

I spent a lot of time on this about fifteen years ago because I needed heavier duty suspension for the sidecar (and trailer tent).

 

If the air suspension is good you could just pump more air in to boost ride height.

 

If you can make up a tool to do it safely, you should be able to make up a spacer with the standard spring, or else you could purchase a heavier duty spring. I used G F Faulkner in England. That still wasn't enough for me and I then tried the spacer AND the thicker/heavier duty spring, but the combination meant it became coil bound and bust the spring seat on a bumpy road while on holiday in Ireland, which dropped the back seat considerably...

 

Finally I had a shock absorber made to measure for a quite reasonable price by Gaz-Shocks - threaded spring seat for full adjustment and a 1/2" longer to get a better ride height. Unfortunately the spring weights I used wouldn't work for you because the weight isn't the same. I'd offer to send one of the old springs I tried, but the postage means it would probably be cheaper to source one in the USA.

[tankerman]

Interesting concept, there is no shortage of suspension specialists here in the US and some one should have a solution. That being said with the price of aftermarket suspenders I doubt that you will find any thing for less than $1000.

[camos]

I'm pretty sure I said raise the rear of the bike for better ground clearance and quicker "turn-in".

So what's wrong with making a "U" shaped extension adapter that fits the bottom eye and essentially moves the attachment point down an inch? The adapter might have to be more like a socket if lateral movement becomes an issue.

[cimmer]

How much higher do you want to raise it and can pumping up the rear air shock give you the needed lift? I have seen a company on eBay selling shocks for the 1st Gens but they are priced very high IMHO. I checked and didnt see anything listed today but you might want to keep an eye out there. At one time, Progressive made a rear shock for the 1st Gens but it has been discontinued but can still be found at some retail locations. I am not sure if this would increase your ride height but would stiffen the ride some. They also made just a replacement spring for the stock Venture shock to replace the factory one. You can tell this as they are painted red and do occasionally show up on eBay from time to time. Here is a link to one on Dennis Kirk website for the completes shock. https://www.denniskirk.com/progressive-suspension/465-series-rear-shock-850-1200-spring-rate-lbs-in-465-1114.p584162.prd/584162.sku

Good luck and let us know what you find.

Thanks

Rick F

[Great White]

I want to raise the rear of my '92 VR.

Looking at rear shocks on ebay I found some with an exposed spring (usually listed as '83) and others with a rubber boot.

Can anyone tell me what I'm looking at?

 

Could I replace the rear shock with a coil-wrapped shock that is a little bit longer?

 

Very good information . . . Thanks!

I think the stock coil-wrapped shock could be replaced with something a little longer.

I would need to know the spring rate needed to support an 800lb motorcycle carrying two full-sized adults.

Anyone???

 

I'm pretty sure I said raise the rear of the bike for better ground clearance and quicker "turn-in"...

 

After re-reading your post, I didn't see handling changes anywhere. Just a "raise the rear" so I was left to guess at the purpose. Normally, requests of this sort on cruiser/touring forums are about getting more weight on the machine or fitting the bike to the individual, hence my first post. Perhaps you also posted on another forum where you might have expanded it to include quicker turn in?

 

At any rate, now knowing that you are after handling changes, I can give you a bit more pertinent commentary.

 

While it won't help with ground clearance, dropping the front forks will accomplish the same thing as jacking the arse up. In fact, more so for less change. Usually just a change of a couple MM in fork height makes for noticeable changes. The venture might not respond quite as well, since it's geometry is what I would describe as "lazy".

 

You'd have to figure out what to do with the pressure balancing collars, depending on how much you lower the front forks.

 

Good thing about dropping the front forks in the triple is that it only takes a small amount to make a large difference. It has a larger effect on rake/trail for a smaller movement than raising the rear. It's an old racers trick (I've used it many times on a track day) to fine tune track handling. It also helps to get more weight over the front wheel which also improves feel, handling and even braking. Although it's probably not going to be as pronounced on a bike like the Venture which is "butt heavy" due to rider and kit positioning.

 

You can raise the stock shock a bit with just air pressure, but it's only going to have so much stroke and it will eventually top out. Bike shocks are pretty short on travel to start with (size limitations and low comparative weights) and touring bikes are usually the lowest due to their intended lifetime use of running smooth, paved roads. Usually in the 4-5" travel range. The original "Cycle" article on the 1983 lists the rear wheel travel as 4.2", so you can image how little there is at the shock.

 

Running the shock outside of the "middle ground" also tends to change shock response as it's not meant to operate in that range. It's kind of a run it and see what you get deal. They're all different. Topping out over bumps will also eventually ruin the shock so running it high isn't a good idea for those reasons either.

 

For spring rates, try giving Racetech a call and see what they recommend. As I mentioned, they mainly deal with sport bikes but should be able to get you in the ballpark. They list parts for the XZV, but list the rear shock as "not rebuild-able". But they deal with lots of other bikes in the same weight class and load (IE: victory, Harley, etc) and should be able to share what a good spring rate would be. This will at least give you a starting point vice a pure guess. I've dealt with them several times building race bikes and they are quite helpful even if you are not buying something. Now, that was years ago, they may have different staff there now or a different view on it.

 

Ground clearance is another issue if you're talking about grounding things on turns. While "getting it up" will help with clearance, getting the roll center higher also slows your transition. Which is what you are trying to improve with "turn in". What you are grounding first kind of dictates what you address first.

 

Keeping in mind these big bruisers are only ever going to have so much clearance and assuming preload is set properly for load/sag, the things that usually hit first on a bike are things like side tangs and mufflers. Stand tangs are somewhat easier deal with by grinder or (in the case of center stands) outright removal. Mufflers are a bit more difficult. Dave Morely's "VentureMax" seems a reasonable compromise for mufflers in that he has straight pips back to a couple (what looks like) Akrapovics turned sideways. They sound positively NASTY, although too loud to live with daily for my preferences.

 

The bags/braces/crash bars are always going to be a problem past a certain lean angle, but that's just the cost of having them. This is where I like my 83 in that it all seems t be tucked in a bit better in the rear as opposed the larger bags in later years. The trade off is smaller bags. Bags are just part of dealing with this style of bike. If I'm dragging the bags/bracing on a touring bike to where it worries me about levering the rear tire off the tarmac, it's time to back it down a notch or two. I just consider it a type limitation and would take my FJ1200 next time.

 

Grounding engine guards, engine cases and other such items either means they need to be removed, reshaped or it's time for a different bike that can keep up with you.

 

Front forks also have a large effect on grounding hard parts in corners since they are also part of the suspension. Springs with too much static sag allow the bike to squat more when hussling hard, especially on the corners when you're leaned over and centripetal force is trying to push you into the pavement. A good set of progressives with proper static sag for your load help immensely. I've also always had very good results with Racetech cartridge emulators in damper rod forks, but I've never had a set in an XZV (yet ).

 

If you want to put automobile coil overs on a bike, you're going to be off in unpaved territory and will just have to experiment to see what you get. Personally: I wouldn't for many reasons I won't go in to here. Telling guys not to put "car parts" on motorcycles seems to be a bit of a hot button with "cruiser riders" so it's just not worth getting in to it.

 

 

Now, if you really want to change handling and achieve quicker "turn in" then do a radial tire conversion and get some aggressive profile tires. Modern rubber will make the single biggest difference in how a bike handles. When I went to radials on my VF750F interceptor by adapting in newer CBR600F2 wheels, the difference was astounding. I went from almost fighting the bike through fast essses to flying through them and keeping up with more modern bikes.

 

Getting modern radials in there also opens up your tire choices immensely compared to the limited offering for the old bias tires. One tire may be "slow in", another may "roll in", the next may "fall in" unexpectedly and yet another may be just right. It's all about matching the profile to your intended use and how you prefer to have the bike "feel". I personally don't like a "snap roll" type tire in fast hussling, I like it moderate. Mostly because I'm a "trail braker" type corner carver and like a hard drive out of a corner. Aggressive tires tend to want to "stand up" too soon with my style and I find that uncomfortable.

 

Radials also have the benefit of running "cooler", which makes them more consistent and promises longer wear characteristics.

 

Problem with the Venture and radials is that rear shaft drive wheel. You're left with trying to find something modern that swaps or having the center machined out of the Venture wheel and grafted into a modern hoop. Not an inexpensive solution.

 

Once I get all the other projects done on my 83 this winter (ie: class, cruise, r6 brakes, Vmax heads, 2002 transmission, vmax rear, etc) I'm going to look at attacking the radial issue. First I'll look at potential swaps and if nothing looks to be workable, I'll just chuck up my spare rear wheel in the lathe at work and turn the center out. The it's a simple matter of finding a modern hoop to drop on to the center and match up the front. There are shops out there that do this kind of thing, but you're looking at somewhere north of a grand for just one wheel...

 

Edited June 13, 2015 by Great White

[GaryZ]

Dear Great White,

The very first sentence of the first copied text says "I want to raise the rear of my '92 VR". And you are correct that I explained my issue on another post on 8-1-2014;

 

"My '85 (80k+ miles) has had stuff removed and feels 50 lbs lighter than the '92. The thing does not drag anything (55 PSI) until I've run out of tread on my E-III tire.

It does have Progressive fork springs and the front sits a little higher than stock. The '92 (30k original miles) drags the center stand (74 PSI) when I turn into my neighborhood at walking speed. I removed the rubber stoppers that held the center stand off of the mufflers (non-stock mufflers) and gained a little clearance. Not enough.

This really bugs me . . ."

 

I have been riding and modifying my ZX11 Ninja for the past 13 years. Carrying a passenger my modified '85 carves through corners while my '92 drags the center stand if I think about leaning over. A bit higher in the rear for ground clearance could also improve turn-in as it did on my Ninja.

 

You are also correct that many people seem to not be able to modify their machine unless there is a "kit". Kits are fine, if you can find one and have lots of money to spend. I prefer to build stuff.

[videoarizona]

((Carrying a passenger my modified '85 carves through corners while my '92 drags the center stand if I think about leaning over.))

 

Gary, You must really crank her over. Last month I hit a decreasing radius curve with the little lady on back a tad fast. I kept laying her over until I scraped something. Woke my lady up! But woke me up too. I had my CLASS on "Low" setting for rear. Kicked it up to "medium" and all has been well since then...though It's a stretch now for me to stand holding bike. I'm 5'10", 220 with 30" inseam. Lady is 136. Watching thread to see what solution you come up with.

david

[Great White]

Dear Great White,

The very first sentence of the first copied text says "I want to raise the rear of my '92 VR". And you are correct that I explained my issue on another post on 8-1-2014;

 

"My '85 (80k+ miles) has had stuff removed and feels 50 lbs lighter than the '92. The thing does not drag anything (55 PSI) until I've run out of tread on my E-III tire.

It does have Progressive fork springs and the front sits a little higher than stock. The '92 (30k original miles) drags the center stand (74 PSI) when I turn into my neighborhood at walking speed. I removed the rubber stoppers that held the center stand off of the mufflers (non-stock mufflers) and gained a little clearance. Not enough.

This really bugs me . . ."

 

I have been riding and modifying my ZX11 Ninja for the past 13 years. Carrying a passenger my modified '85 carves through corners while my '92 drags the center stand if I think about leaning over. A bit higher in the rear for ground clearance could also improve turn-in as it did on my Ninja.

 

You are also correct that many people seem to not be able to modify their machine unless there is a "kit". Kits are fine, if you can find one and have lots of money to spend. I prefer to build stuff.

 

If all you're looking for is a little bit more height them its an easy fix for anyone with a mill (or lathe with milling attachment) to fix you up with an extender. Different geometry on the linkage would also do it, but would be much more involved than just spinning up an extension for the shock.

 

Won't do much for the 20+ year old shock valving, oil and spring though.

 

Good luck in your search.

 

 

PS: I also tend to build my stuff rather than buy it-

 

http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r618/justonepict/Interceptor/image_zpssj7sraqi.jpg

 

 

http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r618/justonepict/Interceptor/image_zpsir5vjra1.jpg

 

That's the current project next to the fj1200 project in the shop. Venture is running daily duty until this winter when it will come apart for the upgrades I've already mentioned.

 

Edited June 14, 2015 by Great White

[camos]

If all you're looking for is a little bit more height them its an easy fix for anyone with a mill (or lathe with milling attachment) to fix you up with an extender.

That's what I was thinking. Not to put you on the spot but you probably could easily make one and send it to Gary.

You know, paying it forward.

 

[Great White]

That's what I was thinking. Not to put you on the spot but you probably could easily make one and send it to Gary.

You know, paying it forward.

 

 

The ones iv done before usually involve modifying the shock body as well as making the adapter.

[GaryZ]

((Carrying a passenger my modified '85 carves through corners while my '92 drags the center stand if I think about leaning over.))

 

Gary, You must really crank her over. Last month I hit a decreasing radius curve with the little lady on back a tad fast. I kept laying her over until I scraped something. Woke my lady up! But woke me up too. I had my CLASS on "Low" setting for rear. Kicked it up to "medium" and all has been well since then...though It's a stretch now for me to stand holding bike. I'm 5'10", 220 with 30" inseam. Lady is 136. Watching thread to see what solution you come up with.

david

 

Yes, I ride a bit aggressive on twisty roads. My '85 CLASS has been removed and I have separate gauges and air valves for front & rear. I'm 6'2", 240 with a 34" inseam. My passenger is XXXlbs ;-) I have Progressives in the forks with approximately 1.5" spacers, air pressure is 6lbs when riding twistys, usually zero. The rear air is set for 55lbs and damping is on "4". I'm not sure what hard parts were dragging. Originally thought it was mufflers, might be center-stand. Here is a picture of my rear E3 after a romp through the hills around Eureka Springs, AR;

[videoarizona]

Whoa....yep...you do enjoy the twisties!

 

Since my last post, I checked my scoot over. Found the left highway rest base is scratched. It doesn't stick out very far but either that or the center stand left arm are the only areas I can think of. Some guys have said it's the exhaust. Could be....since they hang down below the frame. I just don't see any damage there... These pics I found on the web....maybe they can help pinpoint your scrape.

 

So far, best suggestions, IMHO, is to extend your shock mount. Give you an extra inch or two. With your long legs, you should be good.

[Great White]

Whoa....yep...you do enjoy the twisties!

 

Since my last post, I checked my scoot over. Found the left highway rest base is scratched. It doesn't stick out very far but either that or the center stand left arm are the only areas I can think of. [ATTACH=CONFIG]100032[/ATTACH]Some guys have said it's the exhaust. Could be....since they hang down below the frame. I just don't see any damage there...[ATTACH=CONFIG]100033[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]100034[/ATTACH] These pics I found on the web....maybe they can help pinpoint your scrape.

 

So far, best suggestions, IMHO, is to extend your shock mount. Give you an extra inch or two. With your long legs, you should be good.

 

Cool pics, except for the lack of protective gear.

 

Those pics dudes are dragging the side bags crash bars. On guy you see tossing stuff in the LH sweeper and the guy in the RH sweeper looks to be touching centerstand feet or possibly a poorly positioned exhaust clamp. The RH sweeper also shows the "road kiss" on the LH bar crash bar.

 

My 83 standard drags pegs first. Maybe it doesn't drag the rear crash bars because the bags aren't quite as big/wide/low and a MKII?

 

 

Kind of caught me off guard the first time it did it as I'm used to bikes (ie; sport bikes) dragging hard parts like cases or pipes before hitting peg feelers (since I've usually ground them off on pavement already!).

 

Must be the comparatively low peg placement on the XZV I guess. I had a small bit of stand up when it graunched, followed by my getting the peg back down on to the tarmac to make the sweep and stay in my lane.

 

I'm actually putting the CLASS system on my bike. Small weight penalty for being able to push button adjust the system. I'm also mulling over an option to take air off the compressor for things like tire pressure adjustment when out on the road...

Edited June 15, 2015 by Great White

[Prairiehammer]

Whoa....yep...you do enjoy the twisties!

 

Since my last post, I checked my scoot over. Found the left highway rest base is scratched. It doesn't stick out very far but either that or the center stand left arm are the only areas I can think of. [ATTACH=CONFIG]100032[/ATTACH]Some guys have said it's the exhaust. Could be....since they hang down below the frame. I just don't see any damage there...[ATTACH=CONFIG]100033[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]100034[/ATTACH] These pics I found on the web....maybe they can help pinpoint your scrape.

 

So far, best suggestions, IMHO, is to extend your shock mount. Give you an extra inch or two. With your long legs, you should be good.

 

The two pics of a Venture on the Dragon appear to be of Todd @86er.

[videoarizona]

((The two pics of a Venture on the Dragon appear to be of Todd @86er.))

 

Kevin, Cool stuff. Hope he doesn't mind being famous again!

 

And yea...could be right GW...the right hand pic sure looks like something near the center of the bike is scraping....

 

Just crawled under my 1st gen....yep..I was wrong thinking it was the pegs. The hiway pegs are scuffed but those are new additions this past few months...but my left saddlebag guard is scraped nicely!! That's a new scrape since I was careful to wash and wax bike and don't remember any scrapes on chrome.

 

But who knows for sure.....since I haven't hit anything on the 1st Gen. No rust...just road rash on the chrome. Definitely scraped off some metal there...easy to feel.