Cam chains

[dna9656]

After installing the Ignitec and Coil Over Plugs Ign. coils today I (of course) had to start it. I got this sound like dice rattling in a heavy aluminum cup. I think it's coming from the top, left side, front of the engine. I think it's the cam chains; they are so loose that they rattle against the valve cover. Sounds like rocks bouncing around off the cam as it turns and hitting the valve cover. My odometer is showing about 65-67K miles.

HELP!!!!

Edited May 29, 2015 by dna9656

[Patmac6075]

Sounds like a starter clutch to me? Is the battery fully charged? Are your grounds cleaned and well connected? Are you using synthetic oil? Any friction modifiers (zinc, oil additives)?

The reason I ask these questions is, the noise you describe sounds like the starter clutch....if your battery is not fully charged it won't turn the engine fast enough...hence the noise. Or if you use some synthetic oils (specifically automotive oil) it can be too slippery for the starter clutch to engage...again making that noise.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Patmac6075

[dna9656]

Started clutch huh?! I never thought of that!

I have synthetic Lucas M/C oil in it, no additional additives.

I have had the Lucas in there for for about 3k miles.

I Never had that racket using the (natural) Shell oil or other synthetics. 10W 30 M/C oil is hard to find around here, The Lucas is the only one around besides Amsoil and that is a pain in the butt to find unless you go to The Yamaha Stealer.

The bike was run regularly till this past weekend, so the battery shouldn't be that down however I did add a substantial amount of distilled water last week. The engine spins just fine, no low speed churning during start and all the lights glow merrily away when you turn the key.

So I should change the oil before I run out and buy the cam drive components? That's way cheaper and easier that tearing down the engine. On Partszilla.com and Boats.net the chains are sold 1 each.

 

UPDATE:

 

I spoke with Ryan at Lucas Oil, long story short he thinks It could be in the starter gear train. I agree. the "Bendix" action not retracting of going forward far enough due to a tired spring, a too thin thrust washer or worn gears is a possibility. I found the cover gasket on Amazon for cheap so I'll order it and when it arrives I will remove the cover and inspect the starter clutch assembly. I am also going to check put the starter.

 

I ran out to the shop and found BOTH gaskets are ON HAND!!! How cool is that?

 

I have the '85 for parts but in this case I think new is better than used.

Advice, comments, warnings all appreciated.

Edited May 29, 2015 by dna9656

[Patmac6075]

I'll wait for the heavy hitters to weigh in, but.....me, personally, I wouldn't go tearing into the engine just yet.

#1 . For how long has this been a problem? Is there anything done in between the time it acted normally and the first incident?

#2 . Once you exhaust all leads from #1 , I would change out oil and filter...Castrol 4T is motorcycle (wet clutch) specific and is widely available at just about any auto parts chain store (It's the only oil I use....fyi, the Yamaha XJ's are notorious for starter clutch issues and Dinosaur oil is always the first remedy). Have heard many use Shell RotelaT (available at wallyworld for as low as $12/gal.). Beware, it can sometimes take two oil changes to clear the problem (at least on XJ's of the same vintage).

#3 . 10w-30? Mother Yamaha recommends 10w-30 only if temps won't exceed 60 degrees. For warm weather (40 degrees and up) she suggests 20w-40 which is really tough to find, unless you go with Mama's Yamalube! I believe you'll easily find Castrol 4T 20w-50 or Rotella 15w-40...both should cover the bill.

#4 . I wouldn't give up on the idea it could also be the battery, or perhaps a combination of the two which only rears it's ugly head when the right set of circumstances occur. A less than optimal battery might be spinning just a tad slow causing the noise...If you go to the auto parts store (for that Casrtol) ask them to load test the battery...make sure you know what the CCA is of that battery. Might just be your battery is marginal??

Something to think about...

Edited May 29, 2015 by Patmac6075

[dna9656]

FALSE ALARM! All Fixed!

 

So as to have a TEACHING MOMENT (after 1 minute of silence) WHO can tell me what was wrong?

 

MOST info to determine what condition caused this is listed above.

 

HINT: After suspected problem was corrected she started right up; no noise either.

 

New issue: NO TACH. Is there a tach connection I could have disturbed while making the TCI to COP (Coil Over Plug) wire harness? Much fooling around with bike side of TCI plug....

Edited May 30, 2015 by dna9656

[Great White]

My guess would be timing issue....

[dna9656]

VERY CLOSE but no cigar!

[flyday58]

Plug your COPs into the wrong connection, so it was firing out of order?

[dna9656]

Give Dick the big Kewpie doll! YOU are THE MAN!

Not exactly but the judges will take your answer!

The GRAY wire goes to THE FRONT LEFT cylinder. The ORANGE wire goes to the Left REAR cylinder NOT the other way around! I know I are been there!

Edited May 30, 2015 by dna9656

[dna9656]

I think the starter gear system is getting tired but it's NOT shot through yet.

I will start rounding up the parts on line and get all of them so I can start (pun intended) out fresh!