Car tire mounted on a RSV

[Tartan Terror]

To answer the rim size question the bead area is the area in question. On car tire beads vs the beads on a mc the shape of the bead differs just like the shape of a tube type bead vs a tubeless bead differs.

 

Im loving how you think that you have convinced yourselves that the tire companies are screwing you. If thats your argument to justify doing something purely insane go ahead but dont try to rope others into the idea that this is a good idea. Its dangerous.

 

Im also loving how you think you are discrediting the professionals saying that even thought we do this day in and dayout we still know nothing. Just curious what color the sky is in your world.

 

For all the searching I did I only found this guy on the wing and everything else is based on what he wrote. So just because he did it its right? Apparently there isnt much info supporting car tires on bikes either.

 

You know in in the tire business but so is my Father for 48 years. About 20 years ago he was called to be a witness as a Tire professional ( Apparently the courts reguard us as expert witnesses). The case was just this, the case was against an insurance company by a bike rider who used a car tire. Claim was denied and he wanted paid. the only question he was asked was if the tire in question was a car tire. He answered yes and was excused. Crash wasnt for the tire but the case was dismissed. Guy got nothing.

 

People use your brains and use the right tires for safety and never mind the paranoia of tire companies supposedly screwing us. We face enough dangers, why add to them!

[SaltyDawg]

The problem that I tried to bring up earlier is that even with all the info you get, at all the seminars and all the training.....you are still getting the info from the same companies that are screwing us on the tires to begin with.

 

Just curious as to how you think they are screwing us? Do you think they are price gouging? If so just exactly what do you think your life is worth? Is it worth it to save a few bucks? I go through 2 rear tires a year. A whopping $250.00 - $300.00. Heck I know people who spend more than that on cigarette's in one month, and those things Will Kill You.

 

It's worth the piece of mind knowing that if God forbid something should happen to me while riding I don't have to worry about my insurance company not paying off because I had a car tire on my mc, leaving my family destitute.

 

To each his own.

 

Ride it like you stole it.

 

And to the person who wrote that these bikes don't get far enough on their sides while riding to ride on the edge of a car tire has never ridden with the folks I have ridden with. Scraping floorboards happens more than you think.

[AmnChode]

To answer the rim size question the bead area is the area in question. On car tire beads vs the beads on a mc the shape of the bead differs just like the shape of a tube type bead vs a tubeless bead differs.

 

Again, if that was the case, it should have never mounted...but it did. But this is completly avoiding the point I made that Dunlop mentioned the diameter of the rims (and ONLY the diameter) were different, and they are not...

 

Im loving how you think that you have convinced yourselves that the tire companies are screwing you. If thats your argument to justify doing something purely insane go ahead but dont try to rope others into the idea that this is a good idea. Its dangerous.

If you can tell me how they aren't and you may gain some ground here, but everything points in the direction that they are. There is nothing too special about a MC tire to justify twice the price for something that last only 1/4 of the milage. Especially with no innovation into them in say, I dunno, last 20-30 years of so....but those prices keep climbing. As was pointed out ealier, there have been leaps and bounds for car tires and racing tires, but NOTHING for a cruiser/touring tire. A simple rubber bi-compound solution would work...harder in the center to last the miles and softer on the sides for the twisties.

 

However, these are not the only reasons. Some of us are looking for ways to, god forbid, increase the safety. As has been reported by damn near anyone who has ever done it, they see/feel no loss of traction in curves but see massive traction increases on the straights, highway driving, wet road conditions, and more importantly to us in particular, braking as it does help prevent the rear wheel from locking up. If that is insane, call me a looney...

 

Im also loving how you think you are discrediting the professionals saying that even thought we do this day in and dayout we still know nothing. Just curious what color the sky is in your world.

I'm not trying to discredit you, but by god there are other people in this world that work in the tire business other than you. You tell us to find mechanics and/or people in the business to back us up and when we throw them back at you (or is one themself, as in flb_78's case), we are suddenly trying to discredit you. That shop that took the same exact measurements are tire professionals, too. They do this day in and day out, as well. And they also confirmed that 15" is 15"...

 

For all the searching I did I only found this guy on the wing and everything else is based on what he wrote. So just because he did it its right? Apparently there isnt much info supporting car tires on bikes either.

 

Funny...First thing I found doing a search was Daniel Meyer's site. He rides a Valkyrie, written fours books, and has over 100,000 miles of riding experience on car tires. But I didn't start searching until I saw this thread over at the VTXOA site...It covered running CTs on VTX 1300s and refenced another thread on the same site about doing it on VTX 1800s....But doing all that reading I learned that the Wingers and Valks had been doing it for years....I also learned old Harley and chopper riders did it 30 years or so back because they didn't have anything else that would fit what they wanted to do. It wasn't until this thread that I got to read up on YellowWolf's experience on it. I had seen video of him riding his Wing down the Dragon, but never knew he had tried it on a CT (thanks, flb_78 )...This doesn't include the forum dedicated to the subject that can be found in the links of many of the riders in the VTX Darkside threads...This is all being researched as a collective of riders and their experiences. Tire companies aren't going to do it as it would lead to a loss of profit. Bike manufacturers aren't as it would cause a conflict with the tire manufacturers, thus causeing issues with the deals they have. Pretty much leaves riders, doesn't it...

 

 

You know in in the tire business but so is my Father for 48 years. About 20 years ago he was called to be a witness as a Tire professional ( Apparently the courts reguard us as expert witnesses). The case was just this, the case was against an insurance company by a bike rider who used a car tire. Claim was denied and he wanted paid. the only question he was asked was if the tire in question was a car tire. He answered yes and was excused. Crash wasnt for the tire but the case was dismissed. Guy got nothing.

Yeah...I remember a case going to court about some woman who ordered coffee and won a lawsuit when she spilled it on her lap while driving away. Never said the court didn't do stupid things...

[pegscraper]

They aren't price gouging per se. They are lifetime-of-the-tire gouging. They can make tires last longer than they do and they know it. And I know it.

 

Indeed, pegscraping happens all the time.

[AmnChode]

Just curious as to how you think they are screwing us? Do you think they are price gouging? If so just exactly what do you think your life is worth? Is it worth it to save a few bucks? I go through 2 rear tires a year. A whopping $250.00 - $300.00. Heck I know people who spend more than that on cigarette's in one month, and those things Will Kill You.

 

It's worth the piece of mind knowing that if God forbid something should happen to me while riding I don't have to worry about my insurance company not paying off because I had a car tire on my mc, leaving my family destitute.

 

To each his own.

 

Ride it like you stole it.

 

And to the person who wrote that these bikes don't get far enough on their sides while riding to ride on the edge of a car tire has never ridden with the folks I have ridden with. Scraping floorboards happens more than you think.

 

IMHO, yes I think they are gouging. The are selling us a tire that last 1/4 as long for twice the price that hasn't had any sort of innovation in the 20-30 years. They have us where they want us, and they know it. As to asking how much my life is worth is a flawed question. Riding by it's nature is dangerous and if we really wanted to be safer on the road, we drive a SUV or something.

 

Let me point out...I still ride MC tires...and am planning on putting a new set of Avons on here shortly. And am just not naive enough to think that Tire Companies are looking to my best interest more so than their profits. I support the research being done here and am not closed minded about it. Possibly in the future, after I get some more riding time under my belt, I might try a CT...

[SaltyDawg]

They aren't price gouging per se. They are lifetime-of-the-tire gouging. They can make tires last longer than they do and they know it. And I know it.

 

Indeed, pegscraping happens all the time.

 

I don't know, I thought 20,000 miles out of a rear tire was pretty darn good. Considering it's on a drive wheel and is one of only 2 tires that stop a bike that weighs a half a ton with a rider on it.

[SaltyDawg]

Again, if that was the case, it should have never mounted...but it did. But this is completly avoiding the point I made that Dunlop mentioned the diameter of the rims (and ONLY the diameter) were different, and they are not...

 

A 1 1/16 inch wrench will fit on a 26mm nut with a little play, that doesn't make it safe to use and it will eventually round off the corners of the nut. So just because the tire mounted does not by any means mean that the bead is sealed correctly.

[Tartan Terror]

You can mount a 16.5 tire on a 16" wheel but tell me its the safe thing to do. Sure that tire went on the wheel but is it seated right and does the bead have the correct profile? I truely doubt it and you may not have a problem but if you do all they will tell you is go scratch.

 

Many companies make car tires that do not make bike tires. If it was truely was safe to put these tires on bikes dont you think they would be trying to sell them as a new market for them? They know it isnt safe or advisable so they wont.

[pegscraper]

Twenty thousand miles out of a tire is absolutely terrible. And I don't know of anyone who has gotten even that much out of a MT. I suppose you do, but precious few get anywhere near that. Fourteen thousand is more like it, and some don't even get that. I routinely get 80,000 miles out of tires, and I've gotten more than that on occasion. On my cars, yes, and they weigh a lot more than twice what my bike weighs. There's no excuse for MTs wearing out as fast as they do. But why should a manufacturer ever put out a tire that lasts longer? They have us all buying them at the current rate. And as long as all us happy campers are buying them, there's no way they'll make a tire that lasts longer. It would only kill their own income. They're gouging us and they know it. And I know it.

[wizard]

"To answer the rim size question the bead area is the area in question. On car tire beads vs the beads on a mc the shape of the bead differs just like the shape of a tube type bead vs a tubeless bead differs."

 

Its been my experience, running tubeless tires on my Triumphs, on the track, and in the mountains, for many years, there are absolutly no ill affects. Are you also saying you can't mount a tubeless tire on a laced wheel?

[dray]

for the most part i liked the way this thread started now i hate to even come and look i for one would like to know how the ones who have them like the tires and for the ones who just put them on what they think after running them for a few weeks

i have read the I like them and the I'm thinking about it and also the it should not be done why spend all day every day in here telling every one their wrong or stupid make your point and drop it why argue no one is going to change anyones mind and your only bringing your selfs down to the others level of bickering

 

if i don't like a thread i just don't go back and read it as i have better things to do then spend all day worrying if some one See's things my way if this was the case we would all be driving a Chevy short-box truck painted black its just not going to happen

 

ok so now i have said my peace maybe its time to start a new thread about how do you like your car tire on the scoot I would like to know !

 

 

Dray:15_8_211[1]:

[AmnChode]

Sorry, Dray (and any others who feel the same way)...as I know was no help in that cause.

[SaltyDawg]

IMHO, yes I think they are gouging. The are selling us a tire that last 1/4 as long for twice the price that hasn't had any sort of innovation in the 20-30 years. They have us where they want us, and they know it. As to asking how much my life is worth is a flawed question. Riding by it's nature is dangerous and if we really wanted to be safer on the road, we drive a SUV or something.

 

Let me point out...I still ride MC tires...and am planning on putting a new set of Avons on here shortly. And am just not naive enough to think that Tire Companies are looking to my best interest more so than their profits. I support the research being done here and am not closed minded about it. Possibly in the future, after I get some more riding time under my belt, I might try a CT...

 

Innovations do happen in the MC industry or else there wouldn't be Elite III's, Avon Venoms, and Michilen Commanders. Eight years ago I couldn't find a mc tire that would last me 8,000 miles and now I am getting 20,000 out of my commander. Which by the way is the only tire I will put on my RSV. I have tried, dunlops, Bridgestone, Continental, Metzler, and Avon Venoms and none gave me the comfort, stickyness, and durability that the Commander does.

 

When there are as many Motorcycles on the road as cars I imagine the prices would come down. When CD players first came out they cost thousands of dollars and now you can get one for ten bucks at the corner store.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I'd like the number of that Michelin Commander for the Venture..I tried those several years ago on my Ultra, and I didnt like the handling once it broke in...and it didnt last anywhere NEAR 20,000 miles!

 

 

One thing I'd like to add is that some of the cost of producing motorcycle tires is the overhead in legal liability lawsuits...its a bit like buying an 8 foot stepladder.

 

There is probably about 5 dollars in materials in a stepladder, and maybe 10 dollars in labor, and of course some profit for the manufacturer, transportation costs, and markup for the retailer, still, a lot of the cost is legal liablity. Everytime someone sues the manufacturer for an injury, the price to you and me goes up, and the lawyers get richer. Thats why a ladder worth about 15 bucks costs 120 dollars...and is practically plastered with warning labels and stickers.

 

This is just an example...but its the same with MC tires...not much in materials, or labor to make it, but a bunch of the money made is to help pay for lawsuits...this is one reason its nearly impossible to find an American made helmet anymore...too much liability...people LOVE to sue! The manufacturers have to make a large profit, to help offset the occasional BIG lawsuit, that can reach millions of dollars, depending on what the jurys award to a litigant and his lawyer.

 

Several years ago, a rider was using the throttle lock on his new Harley, and 'forgot' to loosen it when he exited a highway, and crashed into something...i dont remember the details...what I DO remember is that he won millions, and is now riding a Harley again. The lawyer made the point in court that it was a 'faulty' design...even though the Harley operators manual clearly says it is only for use as an 'aid' to cold weather idling...something to that effect.

 

Of course, we take the tires we can buy for granted, but if the manufacturers ever 'go under', because of lawsuits on a product that they arent making a big profit on, then we will be buying ChingShen tires made in China.

 

If you dont think it could happen, then just recall what nearly happened to Firestone/Bridgestone a few years ago, when Ford 'Exploders' were having too many accidents while running them.

 

I'm NOT sticking up for the manufacturers, but I'm a realist. We all want cheap, good, long lasting tires. But it aint gonna happen.

 

Those riders who wish to 'buck' the trend are helping all of us, by experimenting with something not everyone is comfortable with. More power to them.

 

Lets all keep this in perspective. When the rubber meets the road, it comes down to this:

 

Ride what you WANT to ride. Its YOUR decision. Tires are like Helmets, Kevlar Jeans, armoured riding suits, or whatever, its YOUR choice. I LIKE it that way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dharnie]

I read 'dark side' article. Anyone try different size than 155/80R15 on RSV? Or maybe this is 'the' right size for RSV? I'm ready to give it a try!

[SaltyDawg]

Like the energizer bunny. It keeps going and going.

[flb_78]

I can drag my floorboards through turns now. Bike hasn't exploded yet and I haven't died in a fiery crash.

 

I'm liking the tire more and more everyday.

 

Tire has the same pressure when I mounted it, bead is fine. I should have taken a picture of the bead from the Metz and for the BFG. They are the same.

 

155/80R15 is the first tire I've tried. After mounting this tire, I believe you can go wider. Next feasible size is 175/55R15 or 175/65R15. There is only 1 165 out there that I can find, but it doesn't look like a quality tire. I may see if I can find a used 175 to mount and mock up to check for clearances.

 

To everyone who is truly interested in this, I thank you for your interest.

 

To everyone who is against this, thank you for you input. We have heard arguments on both sides and I feel that anymore discussion pro and con, back and forth, throwing the same words at each other, is doing no good. People will either be interested and try it, or they won't.

 

I tried it, I like it. You're not going to convince me that it's dangerous. At least no more dangerous then riding a motorcycle to begin with.

 

It was a brave man who ate the first oyster.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I can drag my floorboards through turns now. Bike hasn't exploded yet and I haven't died in a fiery crash.

 

I'm liking the tire more and more everyday.

 

 

155/80R15 is the first tire I've tried. After mounting this tire, I believe you can go wider. Next feasible size is 175/55R15 or 175/65R15. There is only 1 165 out there that I can find, but it doesn't look like a quality tire. I may see if I can find a used 175 to mount and mock up to check for clearances.

 

Have you measured the clearance between the driveshaft and the tire? I'm curious about that.

 

 

 

I tried it, I like it. You're not going to convince me that it's dangerous. At least no more dangerous then riding a motorcycle to begin with.

 

It was a brave man who ate the first oyster.

It was a brave man who ate the first chicken egg, too. "Hey Krogg, look what just fell outta that birds ass...I think I'll EAT it!!"

 

 

Hey I'll be in Amarillo this weekend...maybe I could get a look-see at that tire.

 

I'll pm you my number if your willing to let me buy ya a beer!

[flb_78]

Sure, swing on by. Im free all day Sunday. Girlfriend has to work.

 

As for clearances, check out this pic.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Do you know about the biker breakfast at Boondocks? Sundays at about 10:30 to 11:30 or so.

 

My Black Venture will be there.

 

Cmon in and say hey!

 

If you cant make it for breakfast, then swing by after noon, I should still be there...somtimes we go on short rides after breakfast, usually at about 12:30 or so...

[Steve S]

OYSTERS???????

 

Now person would have to be totally out of thier mind to eat an oyster. That is so unsafe. Eating one oyster can lead to eating several oysters. Eating several oysters is expensive and can lead to drinking large quanities of beer. Drinking large quanities of beer causes a man to have a lapse in judgement:dancefool:. Couple that with the fact that oysters can make you amourous, and you will have a situation that can lead to chasing women ceaselessly:innocent:. Chasing women ceaselessly causes a man to be without enough funds to fully enjoy outfitting his bike:crying:. It will also create a problem with having enough time to ride as women want your undivided attention during the chasing phase. The chasing phase can lead to the marriage phase. And EVERY man knows that the marriage phase leads to the total loss of every freedom that man has ever known:bang head:. Therefore I feel that it is just totally insane to eat an oyster......

 

 

 

 

Boy do I LOVE oysters...

 

 

EAT,,, er RIDE SAFE

[Grey Ghost]

flb_78, will you please post what you find about the 175/55 or 65? I will be replacing my rear tire soon and I have been looking at the car tire option. That's how I found this forum in the first place.

 

Thanks,

Jeff

[Guest tx2sturgis]

OYSTERS???????

 

 

Boy do I LOVE oysters...

 

 

EAT,,, er RIDE SAFE

 

Raw ones?

 

 

You dont really EAT raw oysters...you just kindve give them permission to enter your body. Like a cold slimy slug finding a warm place to crawl into.

 

Well, thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

 

 

[hipshot]

as far as the "amorous" thing goes, it's all a big lie!!!

 

 

last dozen that i ate, only ONE of 'em worked!

jusat jt

[dharnie]

flb_78 Maybe you posted here - - -soooo much to read to find any real facts - if any at all!!! -- what pressure in CT & how does it absorb the bumps vs MT?