Car tire mounted on a RSV

[Just-Jack]

with the warrenties the r on the bikes would putting a car tire on the bike void anything ?

[AKRefugee]

I'm not a tire expert by any stretch of the imagination but I do know how to use my common sense. There was a prior thread here about this very subject and I read it quite thoroughly. After all the reviewing I finally came to the conclusion that I have very little rubber meeting the road as it is and to reduce that in a corner, where I need it the most, would not be very wise. The picture of the GW on the dragon quite clearly demonstrated that to me. Look at that picture on the post on page 4 half way down.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19854&highlight=Tire&page=4

 

What I save on the tires ain't worth it to me.

 

Just my 2:2cents:

[Jerry W]

So let me get this straight. Because some of us are concerned about the use of a car tire on a MC and we don't support the idea this thread should be shut down? Last time I checked this was a free country and we have the right to express ourselves on this board as long as it's respectful of others. It's good to have an open discussion about something that possibly poses a safety issue.

 

MC tires wear out faster than car tires, we all know that, that doesn't make the car tire a safer choice for a MC. MC tires are designed to be ridden on the side where as car tires are not. MC tires are made of softer rubber to give GRIP on those sides, car tires are not. Just because some have had a good experience with car tires doesn't mean it's safe for all. Driving styles are different, usage is different.

 

I am probably one of the members on this site who goes through tires more than most. I commute every day as well as weekend rides. I put 27,000 miles on my bike this past year. I would love to have a longer lasting tire, but not at the expense of possibly leaving my wife and kid without a husband and father.

 

Bottom line just because someone doesn't agree with your thinking doesn't automatically make them wrong, and should be censored.

 

Ok, that is kinda' what I said. I stated that I felt sites should support new ideas, I did not say anyone should not have their opinion. If you read what I said and get is straight you will see that I was not saying anyone should not voice an opinion, but we should support new ideas.

 

Last post. Aidos

[SaltyDawg]

Ok, that is kinda' what I said. I stated that I felt sites should support new ideas, I did not say anyone should not have their opinion. If you read what I said and get is straight you will see that I was not saying anyone should not voice an opinion, but we should support new ideas.

 

Last post. Aidos

 

I apologize if I misunderstood your post but you have to agree your statement didn't mention sites supporting new ideas.

 

some may or may not agree, but in my thinking when this or any other link does not support new ideas it is time to shut them down

The way I saw it was since people didn't agree with what the thread was about then it should be closed.

 

Again I apologize for not understanding it better. I agree new ideas should be brought forth, that's the only way we can move forward and make things better and safer, but with new ideas there is always the chance of those who see it a different way.

[SaltyDawg]

I'm not a tire expert by any stretch of the imagination but I do know how to use my common sense. There was a prior thread here about this very subject and I read it quite thoroughly. After all the reviewing I finally came to the conclusion that I have very little rubber meeting the road as it is and to reduce that in a corner, where I need it the most, would not be very wise. The picture of the GW on the dragon quite clearly demonstrated that to me. Look at that picture on the post on page 4 half way down.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19854&highlight=Tire&page=4

 

What I save on the tires ain't worth it to me.

 

Just my 2:2cents:

 

Man that picture of the GW speaks a 1000 words. I couldn't imagine coming around a corner and finding sugar sand or leaves in my track. Pucker factor in the high 90's for sure. I wouldn't even consider taking that bike out when it's wet outside.

[hig4s]

Seems to be a lot of emotion and mythology in this thread.

 

Fact, modern sport style car tires are as sticky or stickier than modern cruiser and touring motorcycle tires!!! Period. That is not a concern!!

 

Fact, in a straight line a rear car tire will have a bigger contact patch and more traction than a motorcycle tire.

 

Fact, a car tires side walls are designed to flex, so a rear car tire on a motorcycle when going around a corner the inside sidewall will flex, keeping the entire flat portion of the tire on the ground giving more contact patch and traction, right up until the point were the flexing ability is exceeded. Higher profile tires will flex more.

 

So for those that still ride your cruiser or touring bike like they did their sport bikes, and use more extreme lean angles, car tires are not a good idea. If you are mellow and do not do radical cornering, it probably won't be and issue.

 

Also because of the flex, flicking in and out of corners (even at mild lean angles) becomes strange as the bike will feel like it is wandering. Also motorcycles once in a turn become neutral, (meaning you don't have to keep counter steering to stay in the corner) With a car rear tire, because the side wall is flexed, and trying to rebound, you need to continue to counter steer or the bike will try to straighten out.

 

Personally I don't like the idea of having to keep counter steering through a corner or a bike that feels like it wanders around the corner. It takes away the feel of flying. But it is tempting to get reasonable mileage..

 

Final facts,

Pirelli car tires for years have use multiple compounds, no reason they couldn't do that with motorcycle tires, making the center a harder compound for better mileage, while keeping the sides soft for cornering.

 

There is no reason the manufacturers couldn't make a cruiser or touring motorcycle tire that got 40k to 50k. There is just not enough competition and they just don't make enough money off those type tires to bother with the R&D. Especially R&D that would cause them to sell less tires.

[flb_78]

well, a little over 250 miles today and the handling just gets smoother. I likes it. At a speedohealed 50mph, I can scrape both my floorboards in my lane just by rocking the bike back and forth.

[Tartan Terror]

with the warrenties the r on the bikes would putting a car tire on the bike void anything ?

 

I would suggest calling the dealer to ask and tell me what they say. I already know tha answer but the the big thing is you insurance co. I asked my insurance agent and I was told that it was not a safe mod and a unappropriate application. If I made it by some chance through the inspection, if he was the insurer he would bounce the claim based on that and believe me they can and I have seen it in other tire applications on things like trailers using car tires. Besides being a dangerous misapplication and the fact that they make MC application tires for a reason why would you take a chance.

 

Hey you could ride it and get lucky but what if that luck comes to an end. I know I dont want to find out.

 

Fact is, is it worth getting hurt over?

[flb_78]

Besides being a dangerous misapplication and the fact that they make MC application tires for a reason why would you take a chance.

 

Hey you could ride it and get lucky but what if that luck comes to an end. I know I dont want to find out.

 

Fact is, is it worth getting hurt over?

 

 

It's not dangerous. Plenty of folks run em on other bikes with no adverse results.

[flb_78]

Many of you may have heard of YellowWolf. He's the guy that rides a GoldWing like a sport bike.

 

Here is his review of a car tire on a GoldWing on the infamous Dragon's Tail.

 

http://www.ridersrally.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18865&highlight=

 

ok for the folks that felt the need to bad mouth me or bust on me because i did not like what they do shame on ya,if you like it great but if others dont so what why make it personal if you dont know them?

 

for those that figured i was messing with them thanks for knowing me and having a sense of humour!!

 

im not as good at this but i will try

 

first thanks to trialsman for letting me ride his bike"brave man,lol"

 

ok we met in robbinsville,i rode 67 miles at 7am to meet them on my sv and about frooze!!

 

ddking was nice enough to loan me his jacket and gloves which were elect.!!!

i took a quick look at the bike,tires were new,bike looked good and after a warm up we were off.

riding up rt129 at first was strange to say the least,if i turned at all it felt like rolling over the edge of the tire"i knew that was not the case because i was not laid over that far.

but over all was not as bad as i thought it was gonna be.so we get to the sweepers up closer to the dam and the exits of the turns were causing me to run wider than i wanted,the car tire makes the bike want to stand up a bit.

every turn i did got better as i got used to it,as i got to the tight turns leading up to the store i leaned over more and more,felt strange but never did anything to scare me"yet"lol

so we headed off on the gap,oh ddking left his bike in town and rode with?mike?in his mini,arnbutt was also in his mini and trialsman choose to ride with him rather than freeze on my sv,lol

well the gap was a real mess with salt everywhere,looked like a sand truck went through there!!!!

so off i go,i take it real easy on the site in lap,north bound was worse than south bound so on the return trip we picked up the pace!

this is where in my eyes it gets strange,on tite turns going fast it did not feel strange,i think because i was changing direction so fast i was not on the flat of tire very long,side to side took a bit more effort but was very ok!

we finished that run and took a break,arnbutt timed our run and it was a 13,42?i think which was very good going by what the road was like!

 

ok first the time is just there for a comparo,my fastest day run is about a 12-12.5,this is just a comparison

 

so off for another run,north bound i kinda took it easy,but south i really let it rip,half the lap i went out of my way trying to spin the tire out of turns,i would go in slow and at mid turm i would peg it?i could get it to spin but i was trying,in a real lap i would never ride in this manner!

also when im really going i have to be carefull on a car tire under braking do to the ease of which a bt will lock up,so i played with this a bit a noticed with a car tire i could be more ham fisted with out worry!

 

the other part of this lap i just let loose,when i cought a slow car that strange feeling comes back,like a center worn rear tire times ten times as bad,,,not dangerious just strange,,im my eyes for just cruising in the mtns this would bother me but i bet it goes away as you ride it more.

the bike can be leaned a far as a bike tire in the wing,never a slip.

 

so,after a rest we desided to go get bbq in town so back we go,the feeling i did not like was way less on the sweepers on the way back!

 

ok so here is my list of good and bad

bad

on my bike on sweepers ,i could put the cruise on ,start a turn and ride no hands"dont try this kids"all the way around,,,,with a car tire you stand strait up and go strait,lol,,,,no biggie keep a hand on the bars

 

my bad list really is only in comfort in turns as the car tire just feels different,,the more i rode the more it went away.and this is where people differ i think,some think this feels real bad and some say they dont even feel it.just a personal thing i believe,

 

my good list really surprized me!!!

it gripped well,i would not say better than a bike tire in turns but not worse thats for sure,we would have to mount one on a sportier bike to find out but on a wing i dont believe one would slow me down"eating crow here folks"gulp!

strait line braking was easier,we did not measuse but i would not think that it stops faster due to the ft brakes are most of your stopping power but was for sure easier to modulate the rear brake for sure!!

i did not have a mt to campair lean angle on,i wonder if the tire i tried was as tall or not, than a 60 bike tire and im sure trialsman will tell us.

 

grip out of turns is gonna be hard to tell ya,like braking it depends on skill level i think,i have pretty good throttle control so not a big difference for me but i think the car tire just edges out the bt at this,again not big enough to count as much.

 

would i use one? depends on things like,

if i lived in the mountains and did only ride in them,no

the feel is not there,it will do the job as well i just dont like the feel,bike tire just feels better.

 

if i did alot of hwy riding ,maybe two up and towing a trailer or not,yes!

the feel would not really come into play and the milage would be great!

 

if i did half hwy and half mtns??hmmmmm not sure,maybe

if i say lived in florida and did some trips to the mtns,i guess i would have a car tire for florida and have 2nd wheel for my trips to the mountains!

 

ok all this said i think i liked the car tire because trialsman and company have done alot of car tire tests,different tires"this was a run flat"also they tested different pressures and different susp. settings,i believe if i just threw one on my own wing with out the testing i would not have liked it as much!!

i also have kind of busted trialsman and co. for their bad choice of lines in the mountains in the past and thats a good thing because i after lunch led ddking and trialsman on a short ride and was impressed with the way they were riding!!!

 

again thanks to trialsman,ddking,arnbutt for a great day!!!!

 

sorry its so long but i wanted to be as informing as possible,thanks for your time,,,,,,,rick

[wizard]

Here is a interesting site about riding on the darkside. There is even a section for Yamaha's, but nobody has posted in that section yet. They just got their first post from a Boss Hoss rider and his experience with car tires. I was surprised by the many smaller Honda bikes using car tires.

http://vtxdarksiders.forumotion.com/index.htm

[Tartan Terror]

Just because one guy does it doesnt mean its the right thing to do. If he jumped off a cliff would you do it to? I hope your not basing your reasoning on this guy getting lucky so far. Never mind the car tire thing, just the fact you are mixing bias and radials is far from recommended by the guys who design the bikes and tires.

 

People I strongly recommend that you follow the warnings of the bike builders and tire builders. All that information is well documented at your dealers and on the tire builders websites. They spend millions to find out this information. Dont base it on a few rogue people who do whatever and get lucky.

[gibvel]

Scott,

 

Ever feel like you're bashing your head against a brick wall, wasting your breath, casting pearls before swine?

 

As these guys see it it's not one guy it's lots of guys that are riding with car tires and not having problems. Or the "well, I don't ride it like a sports bike so I don't need it to handle like one". Well, someday, there might be that one instance, that one split second where you DO need it to handle like a sport bike or at least the best it can and guess what, it won't be there. (I'm not trying to change anyones mind here, just thinking out loud so don't anyone get their panties in a wad!!)

 

Your words are not wasted buddy!! I hear you and my common sense is right with you on this one.

 

I do, however, pray that these guys, with the car tires, and everyone out there, no matter what they ride or ride on, will never have an accident and ride safe!!

[Squeeze]

Here is a interesting site about riding on the darkside. There is even a section for Yamaha's, but nobody has posted in that section yet. They just got their first post from a Boss Hoss rider and his experience with car tires. I was surprised by the many smaller Honda bikes using car tires.

http://vtxdarksiders.forumotion.com/index.htm

 

Maybe those Yammi Riders have been more addicted to Live than the others ?

 

:D

[flb_78]

Mixing bias and radials is not dangerous when done across different axles. Since I haven't figgered out yet how to put dually's on the bike yet, I have nothing to fear by mixing them. In fact, the BRAND NEW JUST RELEASED Yamaha Raider comes out from the factory with a bias on the front and a radial on the back.

 

Tartan, do you harp on folks who put hitches on their bike since Yamaha says not to?

 

Since Squidley went down because his specialized super duper Michelin Commander motorcycle tire came apart while he was pulling a trailer, do you go into the trailer forum and tell those folks they have no common sense since it's proven to be dangerous by one of our own?

 

Did you know there's an entire section on the GL1800 forum dedicated just to car tires and yet there are no threads about how their motorcycle blew up in a fiery crash?

http://www.gl1800riders.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=17

[Squeeze]

Forrest,

 

Scotty is only concerned about the one and single Member who might have a Accident because here in the Thread he didn't read any Vote against using a Car Tire on a Motorcycle. It's the same than Me and DOT 5 (silicone based) Brake Fluid.

 

 

Beside that, my question would be, how come that not a single Car Tire Rider hasn't had an Accident or was going down ??

 

I just can't believe that nobody went down. That is a utmost Probability and against all Numbers. Not that i would say a Car Tire would have to take the Blame of any Accident happening nor it may have contributed to such an Event, but i never read about any Mishap or anything likely. Just makes me wonder.

[Tartan Terror]

FLB im glad you know so much about tires. What do you do for a living?. Well I do this for a living and on a car radial and bias on different axels it is ok but not recommended and not dangerous but will DEFINITELY affect handling! We are not however talking about cars. Find me one real bike source that tells you this is ok. Im talking Bike makers, Tire makers and real mechanics. Im not talking about some guru who did it on his and that makes it ok. If you want to play with you life go ahead but dont give bad advice that could result in a member getting hurt based on it worked for me.

 

 

Members before you think of doing this please go the the websites on the tire and bike builders and you will se this is just a bad idea.

 

FLB I wish you luck with your car tire.

[SaltyDawg]

Shoot fire why not put one on the front too. That way you may never have to change tires again. If it's safe for the back it must be safe for the front.

[Freebird]

Mixing bias and radials is not dangerous when done across different axles. Since I haven't figgered out yet how to put dually's on the bike yet, I have nothing to fear by mixing them. In fact, the BRAND NEW JUST RELEASED Yamaha Raider comes out from the factory with a bias on the front and a radial on the back.

 

Tartan, do you harp on folks who put hitches on their bike since Yamaha says not to?

 

Since Squidley went down because his specialized super duper Michelin Commander motorcycle tire came apart while he was pulling a trailer, do you go into the trailer forum and tell those folks they have no common sense since it's proven to be dangerous by one of our own?

 

Did you know there's an entire section on the GL1800 forum dedicated just to car tires and yet there are no threads about how their motorcycle blew up in a fiery crash?

http://www.gl1800riders.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=17

 

I'm not going to say much more, I've already stated my opinion on this issue and there is no reason to do so again. I hate to see any further confusion though regarding other tires. As far as I know, it was never determined that Squidley's problem was due to tire failure. It may well have been damaged by something in the road. That can happen to any tire. Also, I may be wrong but I don't THINK he was pulling his trailer. I know that there have been problems with the Metzler tires but I know of no such problems with the Michelin and hate to see such information being spread around unless it has been confirmed that there is a problem. I've worn out two Michelin tires with no problems at all. Most of the miles were riding two up and pulling a trailer that is usually overloaded. If it does turn out to be a problem with that tire, one failure does NOT mean that they are all bad. I know of very few car tire brands that have never experienced a failure at one time or another.

[Freebird]

I would have to see some supporting documentation to accept all of these "Facts".

 

Seems to be a lot of emotion and mythology in this thread.

 

Fact, modern sport style car tires are as sticky or stickier than modern cruiser and touring motorcycle tires!!! Period. That is not a concern!!

 

From what I've seen, there is only ONE tire found that is the correct size. While some sport car tires may be as sticky (haven't seen any proof of this "fact") that does not mean that this BF Goodrich is as sticky. It is NOT a high end sport car tire. I have no idea what compound is used on this particular tire. Maybe it is stickier, maybe not.

 

Fact, in a straight line a rear car tire will have a bigger contact patch and more traction than a motorcycle tire.

 

Probably but it's not the straight line performance that concerns most of us.

 

Fact, a car tires side walls are designed to flex, so a rear car tire on a motorcycle when going around a corner the inside sidewall will flex, keeping the entire flat portion of the tire on the ground giving more contact patch and traction, right up until the point were the flexing ability is exceeded. Higher profile tires will flex more.

 

This is indeed true but everything you posted is based upon how the tire reacts when mounted on a car, the intended application. I would think that the geometry of the cars suspension, weight of the car, many other factors contribute to the properties of the sidewall flexing. No way can those same properties be assumed the same when mounted on a motorcycle.

 

So for those that still ride your cruiser or touring bike like they did their sport bikes, and use more extreme lean angles, car tires are not a good idea. If you are mellow and do not do radical cornering, it probably won't be and issue.

 

As most of us in this group are riding touring bikes then we are not often subjecting them to extreme lean angles. I would think that MOST of us though do enjoy getting a bit aggressive when we find some nice curves. I know that I do.

 

Also because of the flex, flicking in and out of corners (even at mild lean angles) becomes strange as the bike will feel like it is wandering. Also motorcycles once in a turn become neutral, (meaning you don't have to keep counter steering to stay in the corner) With a car rear tire, because the side wall is flexed, and trying to rebound, you need to continue to counter steer or the bike will try to straighten out.

 

That bothers me. One of the greatest feelings in riding is hitting a curve and the proper apex and feeling the bike roll into a nice lean, the smoothness of leaning through those curves. I just don't want to take away that great feeling with having to constantly counter steer. How many of us have spent time trying to improve how out bikes handle. Leveling links, Super Braces, tire selection and proper air pressure. Now we are going to throw that away to save a bit of money on a rear tire?

 

Personally I don't like the idea of having to keep counter steering through a corner or a bike that feels like it wanders around the corner. It takes away the feel of flying. But it is tempting to get reasonable mileage..

 

Final facts,

Pirelli car tires for years have use multiple compounds, no reason they couldn't do that with motorcycle tires, making the center a harder compound for better mileage, while keeping the sides soft for cornering.

 

There is no reason the manufacturers couldn't make a cruiser or touring motorcycle tire that got 40k to 50k. There is just not enough competition and they just don't make enough money off those type tires to bother with the R&D. Especially R&D that would cause them to sell less tires.

 

There is probably some truth to this one. I agree that improvements could probably be made.

[Squidley]

I'm not going to get into this discussion either, as quite frankly I dont care. That being said, the Michelin Commander that was on the back of my '99 did not fail due to design. It was professionally inspected and it turned out that I hit something about the size of my pinkey finger that punctured the tire and zippered it.

 

Let me say that loud and clear

 

The Michelin Commander failed due to road debris

 

 

Good luck with your tires and check them often

[hig4s]

Just because one guy does it doesnt mean its the right thing to do. If he jumped off a cliff would you do it to? I hope your not basing your reasoning on this guy getting lucky so far. Never mind the car tire thing, just the fact you are mixing bias and radials is far from recommended by the guys who design the bikes and tires.

 

People I strongly recommend that you follow the warnings of the bike builders and tire builders. All that information is well documented at your dealers and on the tire builders websites. They spend millions to find out this information. Dont base it on a few rogue people who do whatever and get lucky.

 

Yellow wolf is a member of another forum I've been on longer than I've been here, and he can ride a wing up and down the dragon as fast as any non-professional racer can run a full on sportbike. If he says he was leaning the wing as far as on a motorcycle tire and it was not unsafe, I personally will believe him.

 

I don't see where they spend squat testing touring motorcycle tires, they spend it all on racing applications which are as far removed from full dress touring as car tires are.

 

Many bikes come standard with radials, including full dress touring bikes, (Like the wing!!)

 

If it wasn't for a few rouge people, Airplanes, helocopters, and motorcycles wouldn't exist!!

[hig4s]

I would have to see some supporting documentation to accept all of these "Facts".

 

Let see, I stated 4 facts,, and used the word fact before each one.

 

which ones are you disputing

 

That sports car tires are as sticky as the stock tires on the RSV?

That a car tire going in a straight line will have a bigger contact patch than a motorcycle tire?

That car tire sidewalls are designed to flex and higher profile tires will flex more than low profile tires?

and/or

that Pirelli has been making tires with multiple compounds and they could do it on motorcycle tires if they wanted to?

[DragonRider]

My 2 cents, is that they make motorcycle tires for bikes and car tires for cars...............it works for me and thats the way I will keep doing it..........I trust the engineers that build tires and test them to the limits for us so we can be safe in or on whatever we are riding.

 

For those that want to push the envelope, ride safe and keep the shiny side up.:080402gudl_prv:

[SaltyDawg]

I'm not going to get into this discussion either, as quite frankly I dont care. That being said, the Michelin Commander that was on the back of my '99 did not fail due to design. It was professionally inspected and it turned out that I hit something about the size of my pinkey finger that punctured the tire and zippered it.

 

Let me say that loud and clear

 

The Michelin Commander failed due to road debris

 

 

Good luck with your tires and check them often

 

I am sure glad you guys are Okay. I have to say that I am also glad to hear that it was not a design failure to your tire. At least those of us who use the Commanders can breath a sigh of relief. I know about road debris I hit a 10" bolt that went through the oil pan on my CB750 10 years ago.

 

Ride Safe