Car tire mounted on a RSV

[Freebird]

Let see, I stated 4 facts,, and used the word fact before each one.

 

which ones are you disputing

 

That sports car tires are as sticky as the stock tires on the RSV?

That a car tire going in a straight line will have a bigger contact patch than a motorcycle tire?

That car tire sidewalls are designed to flex and higher profile tires will flex more than low profile tires?

and/or

that Pirelli has been making tires with multiple compounds and they could do it on motorcycle tires if they wanted to?

 

Sorry, I should have posted differently. My comments are listed within the quoted text.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Doesnt this whole discussion remind you of a religious argument??

 

Which god do you pray to, and why?

 

Many points are based on faith...some claim experience...some pray to the CarTire god and some pray to the MotorcycleTire god.

 

Seems like some feathers are gettin kinda ruffled...

 

I know some people personaly who have run the CarTire on a bike, and like it just fine. Others dont want to...whatever.

 

I wonder what would happen if some sports car guys decided to run bike tires on their high performance Vettes, Porsches, and Lamborginis, just cuz they handle well on bikes? ( 'you seen how those bikes can wheelie?')

 

Hmm...

 

I know that as my bikes tires begin to 'square off' due to wear in the middle, the handling gets..less enjoyable. But since it happens slowly, I get used to it. I know when I put new tires on the bike, it handles SO much better. I LIKE that feeling of easily falling into turns.

 

 

For now, I'm sticking (no pun intended) with bike tires on my bike, and car tires on my car, ( dont actually OWN a car) and light truck tires on my pickup, and wheel barrow tires on my wheel barrow...and so on. I figure, cant hurt to try to do things right.

[SaltyDawg]

Let see, I stated 4 facts,, and used the word fact before each one.

 

which ones are you disputing

 

That sports car tires are as sticky as the stock tires on the RSV?

That a car tire going in a straight line will have a bigger contact patch than a motorcycle tire?

That car tire sidewalls are designed to flex and higher profile tires will flex more than low profile tires?

and/or

that Pirelli has been making tires with multiple compounds and they could do it on motorcycle tires if they wanted to?

 

No need to get snippy. You claim facts, back them up. We all know the a car tire has a larger contact patch in a straight line, that has not been disputed. What is being disputed is that car tires are not designed to be ridden on their edges and therefore have less contact with the road. Less contact would mean a smaller contact patch when you need it most. One look at the GW picture and that proves your Flex fact to be in dispute.

 

If car tires were designed to be ridden on their sides then how come race cars are set up with high camber for oval tracks? It's to keep that flat side down and more contact with the track.

[Tom]

I will stick with my Avons..if they wear out I will buy new ones. Everyone be safe. Tom

[Tartan Terror]

Let see, I stated 4 facts,, and used the word fact before each one.

 

which ones are you disputing

 

That sports car tires are as sticky as the stock tires on the RSV?

That a car tire going in a straight line will have a bigger contact patch than a motorcycle tire?

That car tire sidewalls are designed to flex and higher profile tires will flex more than low profile tires?

and/or

that Pirelli has been making tires with multiple compounds and they could do it on motorcycle tires if they wanted to?

 

 

I agree with Salty, Lets see the facts. Also I would be interested in finding out what you do for a career so we can see why you know more than the professionals. You seem to question them, Myself included, as having no clue.

[1BigDog]

Im going to toss my two cents in here. I have several friends who want to try the car tire thing but have yet to do so. They want increased wear but something bothers them enough to hold off on that idea. I believe that something is called common sense.

 

If I remember correctly, Roger Bourget designed his choppers with a car tire because there wasnt a fat enough MC tire to fit, however I also remember him stating that the bikes handled better once he was able to get MC tire mfg's to design a MC specific fat tire. Dont ask me to quote the source..I remember reading it in some chopper magazine a few years ago while on a plane.

 

Now, referring to that exceptional Gold Wing rider....well, lets just say that a fairly large percentage of us cant handle a bike like he does. He does not represent the average schmoe. His riding skills are well above average. Im not saying we are poor riders, but most of us certainly dont possess that kind of riding skill, if you understand what im trying to say.

 

I have to agree with Tarty on this one. Unless you are hell bent on doing this mod, i'd say, for the average rider, stick with the MC tire.

 

Just my personal opinion. If you have a problem with this...see Zeus:

[kbran]

Im going to toss my two cents in here. I have several friends who want to try the car tire thing but have yet to do so. They want increased wear but something bothers them enough to hold off on that idea. I believe that something is called common sense.

 

If I remember correctly, Roger Bourget designed his choppers with a car tire because there wasnt a fat enough MC tire to fit, however I also remember him stating that the bikes handled better once he was able to get MC tire mfg's to design a MC specific fat tire. Dont ask me to quote the source..I remember reading it in some chopper magazine a few years ago while on a plane.

 

Now, referring to that exceptional Gold Wing rider....well, lets just say that a fairly large percentage of us cant handle a bike like he does. He does not represent the average schmoe. His riding skills are well above average. Im not saying we are poor riders, but most of us certainly dont possess that kind of riding skill, if you understand what im trying to say.

 

I have to agree with Tarty on this one. Unless you are hell bent on doing this mod, i'd say, for the average rider, stick with the MC tire.

 

Just my personal opinion. If you have a problem with this...see Zeus:

 

Guess I'll have to agree. Don't want to see Zeus, he looks mean.

[AmnChode]

First off, I am a supporter of testing CTs on bikes....I have seen rather nice results across alot of bikes using them, from Valkyries, Wings, VTXs, and others.

 

With that said, my next statement may appear biased, but so be it. I trust the tire engineers about as much as I trust oil companies/car manufacturers. To say they do everything in OUR best interest is to be naive. They are out to make money and as much as possible. If car manufacturers made actual fuel effcient engines, oil companies would be screwed. As such, pay a little kick back here and there and *poof*, 20mpg cars vs 50...The Prius getting 50mpg is not a real achievement considering a 15-20yr old Geo Metro did the same thing (or damn close). Same principle applies in Tires except now it is the companies themselves preventing progress.

 

Tartan asks us to ask them whether it would safe to do it.....hmmm, why would a company that is shafting me for a tire that cost twice as much and lasts a quarter as long ever tell me that another tire that cost half as much and last four times as long is safe. That would be like slitting their own throat. Ask the bike manufacturer? You mean the same ones cutting deals with the tires companies for the tires to begin with. The same ones that also explicitly state pulling a trailer on a bike is extremely dangerous (that seemed to stop alot of you:whistling:). Their opinion is going to be sided on the safe side of liabilty. It is safer to say no, then yes....regardless of actual fact or opinion on the subject.

 

And I keep seeing the MT softer than CT.... click here... nuff said.

 

What is being disputed is that car tires are not designed to be ridden on their edges and therefore have less contact with the road. Less contact would mean a smaller contact patch when you need it most.

 

While the contact patch is less then going straight, the real question is whether the contact patch is actually less that the contact patch on the MT. We have to keep in mind that the contact patch is rather small on MTs to begin with. Now, I have seen where if you lay a CT and a MT on the sides simulating a lean and run them through a puddle of water, then look at the track as they leave it, the CT will have just as big of a contact patch as the MT...if not bigger in some cases. Now, while this is more of a layman's way of testing, it is still effective....

[flb_78]

An instructor for the MSF advanced course here in Texas runs a car tire on his Valkyrie and he is also considered to be one of the top Valkyrie riders in the country and has won competitions proving it and he did it on a car tire. He actually is now riding all over Texas teaching instructors for the MSF courses.

 

That's my expert.

 

This guy here may be considered an expert.

 

http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html

 

He has plenty of experience with running a car and has ridden all the the States and through Canada.

 

Running a car tire is no more dangerous then raising the bike with leveling links, lowering the rear, dropping the forks in the trees, or running a skinnier tire up front. All of it affects the handling of the machine in one way or another.

 

According to you logic, if Yamaha thought any of that was needed, then they would of built it that way.

 

I went to Nashville Auto Diesel College and graduated with honors in the 96 percentile of my class. I've been a diesel mechanic now for 10 years. I also worked in a commercial tire shop for class 8 over the road semis, so yeah, I know a thing or 2.

[Freebird]

This isn't going to end folks. Everybody just has to make their own decisions I guess. I would just say that if you have ANY doubt, don't do it.

[CrazyHorse]

This has been an entertaining post so far. Oh and I hate linked brakes.

[hig4s]

No need to get snippy. You claim facts, back them up. We all know the a car tire has a larger contact patch in a straight line, that has not been disputed. What is being disputed is that car tires are not designed to be ridden on their edges and therefore have less contact with the road. Less contact would mean a smaller contact patch when you need it most. One look at the GW picture and that proves your Flex fact to be in dispute.

 

If car tires were designed to be ridden on their sides then how come race cars are set up with high camber for oval tracks? It's to keep that flat side down and more contact with the track.

 

I'm not trying to be snippy, please don't read into the words something that isn't there. I never said car tires were designed to be ridden on their edges, I even stated that because of the side wall flex, the tire will remain flat right up until it can flex no more. That would definitely make them not a good thing on any bike that was to be leaned to extremes. But RSV have what lean angle before hard part hit the ground. Once hard parts hit and start lifting the tire off the ground, what kind of tire it is becomes irrelevant.

 

I have also stated that I wouldn't use a car tire, but I try to remain open minded as the to possibility, seeing as car tires have made amazing progress in both durability and traction over the last 30 years, motorcycle racing tires have made amazing progress in traction over the last 30 years, but cruiser and touring tires don't seem to be any better than the tires I had on my 78 Yamaha XS650 back in 78.

 

As far as those that want to know what I do, that has little to do with anything.

And experts can be wrong, experts from big corporations are always, by corporate direction, overly conservative. Yamaha states right in the owners manual that any tire other than the stock Bridgestones or the alternate Dunlops are not tested and should not be used. Virtually everyone here is using tires the experts say you should not use.

 

Tire companies will not release their secret rubber compound information, but the Bridgestone Potenza RE050s on my Acura were definitely softer than the tire on my RSV, and they lasted 40k on my car. I have tried to figure the lbs per sq in of tire patch but it just is not that easy. But it sure seems to me that as motorcyclist we are being taken advantage of and that motorcycle tires could be made to last if the manufacturers wanted them to.

[BuddyRich]

:doh::doh:

Jeeze, And I thought Oil threads were long ones. :rotf:

Guess we can group tires in there too.

 

Wish I had had some knobbies the other day...

 

[hig4s]

This isn't going to end folks. Everybody just has to make their own decisions I guess. I would just say that if you have ANY doubt, don't do it.

 

 

And that I agree with 100%

[hipshot]

REPLY #65!!!!!!!!

 

seems to me , and i have stayed out of this fracus, that we have just about "beat this dead horse", into a pulp!

 

 

professional TIRE dealers, say NO!

professional "gamblers ", say yes!

don't that just about sum it up?????

nuff said!

JUST JT

[wizard]

Does being a salesman, or even a owner of a tire shop make one a professional. I really don't think so. I'm a buyer and I work with manufacturing company's such as Honeywell, P&F, Carling, etc. I work with many engineers from these company's, to design and and supply many manufacturers, both private and government. I am not a professional in any respect when it comes to the products I buy. A engineer will not sign off any item that has been designed for a specific function for any thing other than what it was designed for. If a manufacturer in the private sector wishes for a switch or contacter, we have customer service reps which can recommend an item which will meet their needs. But, even they are not the pros. All we can do is pass on the information we get from these engineers. Its not my intention to sound like a know it all or to be snippy, but I do wonder and question what makes you a professional when it comes to what will work on anything if you have not engineered or designed the item and have not even tried it for another purpose. I know that there are quite a few professionals on this blog that know what I'm referring to, and can understand why I would ask this question. So don't take this question for anything more than it is. I'm sure you know a lot about tires, its how you make a living, your knowledge base will be quite a bit more than most others when it comes to applications recommended by your vendors, but it sounds like you will not go anything farther than what your told, just as I am limited by my vendors

[Tartan Terror]

Does being a salesman, or even a owner of a tire shop make one a professional. I really don't think so. I'm a buyer and I work with manufacturing company's such as Honeywell, P&F, Carling, etc. I work with many engineers from these company's, to design and and supply many manufacturers, both private and government. I am not a professional in any respect when it comes to the products I buy. A engineer will not sign off any item that has been designed for a specific function for any thing other than what it was designed for. If a manufacturer in the private sector wishes for a switch or contacter, we have customer service reps which can recommend an item which will meet their needs. But, even they are not the pros. All we can do is pass on the information we get from these engineers. Its not my intention to sound like a know it all or to be snippy, but I do wonder and question what makes you a professional when it comes to what will work on anything if you have not engineered or designed the item and have not even tried it for another purpose. I know that there are quite a few professionals on this blog that know what I'm referring to, and can understand why I would ask this question. So don't take this question for anything more than it is. I'm sure you know a lot about tires, its how you make a living, your knowledge base will be quite a bit more than most others when it comes to applications recommended by your vendors, but it sounds like you will not go anything farther than what your told, just as I am limited by my vendors

 

 

It makes us alot more of a professional than someone who is shooting from the hip. Its like this, We make it a point of researching and talking to the manufactures as it is our ass on the line. If I sell you a product that is wrong or dangerous and that product fails guess who is liable? You got it, us therefore it is our job to know what we are talking about not only for safety but to protect our livelyhoods. Im the one who gets sued so yes we make it a point of knowing our stuff. Is that good enough. Thats why we have the access to all the manufacturers that you may not be about to get to easily. If I didnt know all this I would long since have been out of business. I regularly attend seminars and trainings just for this purpose.

[wizard]

My point, exactly. Thank you.

[hipshot]

My point, exactly. Thank you.

 

you're welcome, len!!

now i 've done forgot who's side i'm on!

lol

just jt

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Can we change the name of this thread to:

 

Ego..are you 'TIRED' of it?

 

 

 

[dragerman]

Perhaps we should take the question outside this forum;

 

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/talk/talk.html

[Squeeze]

I agree on it has been said everything.

 

 

 

BUT (there always has to be a but)

 

 

to reiterate my Question ...,

 

...

 

Beside that, my question would be, how come that not a single Car Tire Rider hasn't had an Accident or was going down ??

 

I just can't believe that nobody went down. That is a utmost Probability and against all Numbers. Not that i would say a Car Tire would have to take the Blame of any Accident happening nor it may have contributed to such an Event, but i never read about any Mishap or anything likely. Just makes me wonder.

[Tartan Terror]

I agree on it has been said everything.

 

 

 

BUT (there always has to be a but)

 

 

to reiterate my Question ...,

 

...

 

Beside that, my question would be, how come that not a single Car Tire Rider hasn't had an Accident or was going down ??

 

I just can't believe that nobody went down. That is a utmost Probability and against all Numbers. Not that i would say a Car Tire would have to take the Blame of any Accident happening nor it may have contributed to such an Event, but i never read about any Mishap or anything likely. Just makes me wonder.

 

 

Im sure there has been and Im sure you can find that on the net too but the one thing Im sure of is this crowd wont tell you about it. They only want to state the few sources that prove they are right. I think I may need to do a little research on this case.

[BuddyRich]

If I put 4 motorcycle tires on my car can I get it to lean in the turns:rotf:

[AmnChode]

Tartan....The problem that I tried to bring up earlier is that even with all the info you get, at all the seminars and all the training.....you are still getting the info from the same companies that are screwing us on the tires to begin with. You are implying that you only know what they have told you to know.

 

But here I'll give a fine example of them flat out BSing us. Click here..... 3rd bullet from the bottom and take note of what I have bolded here:

For 15-inch motorcycle replacement tires, never mount on a 15-inch diameter passenger car tire rim. Mount only on a 15 M/C motorcycle rim. These passenger car and motorcycle rims actually differ in diameter.

Straight from the tire manufacturer...

 

Now if that was the case, the tire flb_78 showed pictures of in the first post of this very thread should have never mounted. But it did...why because the measurements are identical as well as the bead. Anybody with a doubt can go measure themselves...BUT here Dunlop blatantly said they differ in diameter...Click here for a thread that brings up this very issue where a gentleman and a few guys at the tire shop he mounted his CT at took the measurements (i.e., on of those shops full of tire professionals such as yourself)...So, why am I supposed to trust the manufacturers again?