Hannigan rear brake problem

[alwrmcusn]

I have a 2009 RSV Hannigan trike supposedly with the upgraded brakes.

Recently (about 2-3 months ago) I replaced the rear brake pads and replaced the brake fluid at the same time.

It made a big difference in braking of course and I've had no problems until yesterday.

On my way to meet friends to go ride the Dragon I noticed that the brake pedal would bottom out but when released and pressed again the brakes felt and worked normally. If the brakes were used again within a few seconds they would still feel and work as they should. But if not used for several minutes they would have to be "pumped" again.

When I got to my friends house we checked the brake fluid and it is full as it should be. That indicates no leaks.

Any ideas or suggestions on what the problem may be?

Edited May 5, 2015 by alwrmcusn

[djadam]

Did you bleed the lines? Even if you did I would try bleeding them again. Had that happen to my car once and after I bled them the 2nd time it was perfect.

[alwrmcusn]

Yes we did bleed the lines. The odd thing is the brakes worked as they should for about two months. It was suddenly yesterday that the problem commenced. We can re-bleed and see if that works. Mike suggested that the pads might not have seated properly?? Myself, I ain't a mechanical person and these things all sound perfectly logical to me.

[Carbon_One]

There's really only a couple things that could be happening here. One is you still have some air in the calipers or lines somewhere. Two would be that the master cylinder itself is starting to fail.

Larry

[alwrmcusn]

Would both of those options be likely to happen suddenly, overnight? I mean no warning, no subtle change, just suddenly!!

Edited addition:

My Hannigan kit has been a terrific product and ride and their customer service is truly excellent, so I'm not faulting Hannigan....I'm just asking for possible causes and/or solutions. Does the trike use the OEM Yamaha master cylinder or was that replaced with a different unit when it was "triked"? If it is the master cylinder (I'll re-bleed the brakes first to eliminate that possibility) then I would need a new master cylinder of course.

Edited May 5, 2015 by alwrmcusn

[Carbon_One]

With a Hannigan conversion kit you're still using the stock master cylinder. Definitely re-bleed the brakes and go from there.

Larry

[djh3]

I have had something like that happen more than once. Air in masters and lines and calipers get stuck in funny places from time to time. Try bleeding them out again.

[alwrmcusn]

Ok thanks to all who replied, this site is worth the $$, love it. I have ordered two new wheels and when they arrive my friend Mike and I will do the re-bleed and replace the wheels with the new ones.

[ragtop69gs]

What wheels are you going with ?

[alwrmcusn]

John at Hannigan gave me the specs I needed and a link to wheelpros.com. I filled in the info and came up with four choices (if I remember correctly it was four). The Metegi FF7 in black were the ones I thought would look best on my 2009 RSV.

 

[ragtop69gs]

Nice,,, can't wait to see them mounted.

[alwrmcusn]

May be a week or two or three before I get them mounted. Busy time of year. But I sure want them done before the Louisville STAR B Q.

[alwrmcusn]

Re-bled the brakes again this afternoon while the original wheels were off to install the new wheels. DEFINITELY easier to get to the rear brake calipers with the wheels off. However, re-bleeding did NOT fix the problem. I still need to about 3 outta 4 times braking do a quick pump on the rear brakes. I'm hearing that a new master cylinder might be a fix.

Here's the trike with the new Metegi FF7 wheels installed with new Nexen tires also. The old OEM wheels and tires that were part of the Hannigan installation are now for sale if anyone needs them. The tires are still in pretty fair shape and should get another years wear!

 

[Carbon_One]

Best look into the master cylinder then, You surely don't want that to fail completely when needed most. Of course you still have the front brakes but why risk damaging that beautiful 09.

Larry

[alwrmcusn]

Ordered master cylinder ...if that doesn't work I'll check into purchasing a surplus Navy anchor. A retired swabbie should be able to get a pretty good deal on one! (smile)

[alwrmcusn]

Carbon One, are you going to be at the Louisville, KY STAR B Q next month?

[Carbon_One]

Carbon One, are you going to be at the Louisville, KY STAR B Q next month?

Sorry to say, no I won't. But that also depends on the date.

I'll be at Freebirds MD in a couple weeks. Then the 2nd week of June we'll be in Maggie Valley for the 1st annual Slingshot in the Smokies for the entire week.

http://www.slingshotroadsters.com/slingshotroadsters-events

[Cougar]

Are you bleeding the RIGHT rear FIRST ?

[ragtop69gs]

Are you bleeding the RIGHT rear FIRST ?

Good point Jeff, I assumed everyone knew to start at the furthest point when bleeding brakes.

[alwrmcusn]

As a matter of fact I believe we did bleed the right (facing forward) side first both times. Why would that make a difference?

[alwrmcusn]

Took the trike to dealer this morning (reputable and reliable dealer mechanics). Did a thorough brake bleed. Darrell the tech/mech responded with almost exactly the same words about which side to bleed first! Darrell took the trike for a test and there was no change. Still needs a quick brake pump about half the time or more. Did another brake bleed, much pumping and holding! Darrell took it for another test ride and came back saying he had full brakes all the time and could lock up both rear wheels when braked hard. I have about an hour and twenty minute ride home. Great brakes for a while but as the trip progressed they slowly went back to requiring a pump and then they take and hold. Both Darrel and Lucas did a complete line check for leaks and found nothing.

When I got home I pressed the brake pedal as far as it would go, tucked in a 2x4 to hold it down and let it sit for 35 mins. Then I went out and checked for leaks. There are no leaks in the lines.

Now it seems to me that all the indications are that there is a leak somewhere. All the techs are saying it just does not seem likely that it is the master cylinder. Still I am taking it back down in the morning to have a master cylinder kit installed.

If there are any other possibilities, I (we) would surely like to hear about them.

[alwrmcusn]

Wow! Major update to this thread. The dealer did the master cylinder kit install yesterday which of course required yet another brake bleed (full flush?). When he was putting the wheels back on, one of the techs asked the other if there was a flange nut on the axle on his side. There was not! I have no idea when or how long that axle flange nut has been missing. The trike has not exhibited any handling problems but the entire right rear wheel/brake/rotor was in danger of coming off. The tech contacted Jim Gooch at Hannigan, explained everything, and was told to inspect the wheel bearings that they would most likely need replaced. The tech did, they do, and so he has ordered all the parts. Hopefully it will be ready on Friday. I'm scheduled for a Memorial Day event at Dollywood on Monday.

I keep having visions of doing about 75 down I-40 and having that assembly suddenly detach. Scrape me up and pour me in a bag!

[ragtop69gs]

I'll have to check ours! Thanks for the heads up. Glad it was found before disaster struck.

[alwrmcusn]

Let me hasten to add that I assume this is a fairly recent loss. The trike is 3+ years old so I don't believe it was left off by the conversion installer. I assume it has just over time come loose.

BOTTOM LINE: Check those nuts and bolts boys and girls!! This is the 2nd big missing nut/bolt problem for me!!

[alwrmcusn]

Wheel bearings installed, just waiting for the axle flange nut to arrive.