Let the discussion begin.

[Guest NNY]

I don’t care what you ride, I ride what fits me..... I choose my own path and respect others. The new Venture is a great bike..... for what it is.... so let go and move on about what it isn’t..... it starts to sound like whining to me! I just came away from a bunch on crying Victory owners..... at least they have a reason to *****. If you don’t like the new Venture.... no problem, ride what you ride...... just don’t ask me to wipe my huge smile off my face as I motor away on my awesome new V-Twin beast!

[RDawson]

I haven't seen anyone tell you not to like your ride. In contrast I've seen several congratulate new owners. My question was based on somebody else getting their panties in a wad over bike comparison. This thread was started about new hopes before the bike was built and is carried on to the present. Good day.

[cowpuc]

I think Don pretty well nailed the feeling of the 1-2 gen riders. Yes a lot of ragging on each other goes on in good fun, mine faster, mines better, etc. Neither one is perfect but I have a blast on both. I don't hold Ill feelings toward Yam or the owners of the 3rds at all. I don't foresee me ever owning a 3rd gen, V-twins are everywhere

 

Right there with ya Corporal Newkirk on all points except one. While I hold ABSOLUTELY no ill feelings toward ANY 3rd gen rider/owner/lover or what ever and would be PROUD to ride with and enjoy the company of any of those fine folks,, I DO hold ill feeling toward Mom Yam on this one..

Fact is,, if you read the post below from XV1100/Don concerning what could have been and what many of us were led to believe was GOING to be and my response to that post you are probably intelligent enough to easily understand why a simple nobody 1st Gen rider like myself may have those feelings...

 

I don’t care what you ride, I ride what fits me..... I choose my own path and respect others. The new Venture is a great bike..... for what it is.... so let go and move on about what it isn’t..... it starts to sound like whining to me!

 

IMHO,, it is possible for someone to "earn" the right to be whiny, especially if they have been openly misled thru marketing propaganda over something that they clearly have invested years of their passion into.. Maybe some folks would consider what I am talking about as being some form of being "spoiled"?? I can see that too,,, as a matter of fact, I really truly feel like, after spending my life seeing the world from the saddle of a 1st Gen I actually do feel VERY spoiled = what an amazing machine!! In the end,, IMHO,,, I think some of us have earned the right to be a little whiny if we want to and I certainly do not think anyone has the right to tell me (or others) to move on any more than I have the right to tell them what bike to buy and be happy with..... This almost crosses into the personal attack zone IMHO..

 

 

 

AND, Puc...making sense why they sold out much better in Ontario..and perhaps Canada as a whole country...because...the plain, basic truth of the matter...(thinking about it this morning..) is that the most popular engine format motorcycle IN Canada...are V-Twins.... Yamaha Sneak Teams saw that...and it wasn't the Raider Group that propelled the brand new, from the ground up 2018 Yamaha Venture Trans Continental....is was CROSS PLATFORM, MULTI MANUFACTURER---->PRESENT RIDERSHIP...out there on the roadways, of Canada...that propelled the first SVTC down the assembly line, headed for CANADA! Wow...I need to get another cup of coffee... It was THAT...that put them out on the roadway this summer!

 

Morning all...and especially American...who got me THINKING about this all, this morning....Have a great day, sir!

 

Joe

 

Unfortunately I witnessed first hand Yamaha's marketing of the new bikes where they introduced the Star Riders who designed the new bike and chose the V-Twin platform.. Then later, at the Americade world release I sat in a front row seat and listened to the Yamaha reps proclaiming clearly again that it was indeed the Star Riders design input that resulted in the production of the SVTC and Eluder.. Later I actually met some of these folks and reconfirmed that it was, in fact,, their input and theirs alone that did this.. No sneak teams from Yamaha up into Canada were mentioned...

This is why I keep mentioning that I wish I had access to the "Star Touring" forums as it would be very interesting to see just how many of the folks who are responsible for the new bikes design actually now are riding them..

 

Imagine if the SVCT had all the bells and whistles that it does, maintained the low centre of gravity AND had the liquid cooled 1800cc V4. There would be NO COMPETITION in the motorcycle world. Comparing a V4 SVCT to any V-twin would be like comparing Einstein to an ape.

 

and at the end of the day,,, that IS the rub XV!!! Mom Yam actually gave the new Venture "star billing" (no pun intended) with marketing words that said those words (NO COMPETITION),, they clearly stated the new bike was going to turn the touring world upside down!! It was the play on those very words that is, IMHO, a big part of what is now creating slow sales for them and continued open contriversy about whether or not the move toward as a clone to HD and chasing the Harley world, and going toe to toe with the leader in V-Twin design (HD) on MSRP was a good one or not..

IMHO as well as many others,,, just like you point out, had Mom Yam of sought design assistance from the faithful Venture owners of the past and heard what they clearly stated in threads like this one,,, I whole heartily agree/believe that there really would be NO COMPETITION, the touring really would have been turned up side down AND,, these on going contriversial debates would be one of many voices screaming ROCK ON MOM YAM instead of openly questioning her judgement!!!!!

Edited May 23, 2018 by cowpuc

[YamahaParExcellence]

I don’t care what you ride, I ride what fits me..... I choose my own path and respect others. The new Venture is a great bike..... for what it is.... so let go and move on about what it isn’t..... it starts to sound like whining to me! I just came away from a bunch on crying Victory owners..... at least they have a reason to *****. If you don’t like the new Venture.... no problem, ride what you ride...... just don’t ask me to wipe my huge smile off my face as I motor away on my awesome new V-Twin beast!

 

Talking about 2018 Yamaha Star Ventures..... Off for some Hills and mountains of Vermont...in about 15 minutes! Well...a stop first at a Timmies...THAT is tradition! I'll let those fabulous running lights, carve out the road ahead...Highway 401, to Gananoque, then over through New York...and then over to 'them thar hills of Maple Syrup Country!

 

Take care...and have your own fun, these next few days!

 

Your post has me in a singing mood; "I'm gonna preach it in the mountains, I'm gonna preach it to the plains, I'm gonna preach it to the starry sky, I'm gonna witness for the Saints!"

 

Love that spiritual....yeah..I like Gospel. Sounds great coming off of a banjo!

 

Gospel Joe

[YamahaParExcellence]

Right there with ya Corporal Newkirk on all points except one. While I hold ABSOLUTELY no ill feelings toward ANY 3rd gen rider/owner/lover or what ever and would be PROUD to ride with and enjoy the company of any of those fine folks,, I DO hold ill feeling toward Mom Yam on this one..

Fact is,, if you read the post below from XV1100/Don concerning what could have been and what many of us were led to believe was GOING to be and my response to that post you are probably intelligent enough to easily understand why a simple nobody 1st Gen rider like myself may have those feelings...

 

 

 

IMHO,, it is possible for someone to "earn" the right to be whiny, especially if they have been openly misled thru marketing propaganda over something that they clearly have invested years of their passion into.. Maybe some folks would consider what I am talking about as being some form of being "spoiled"?? I can see that too,,, as a matter of fact, I really truly feel like, after spending my life seeing the world from the saddle of a 1st Gen I actually do feel VERY spoiled = what an amazing machine!! In the end,, IMHO,,, I think some of us have earned the right to be a little whiny if we want to and I certainly do not think anyone has the right to tell me (or others) to move on any more than I have the right to tell them what bike to buy and be happy with..... This almost crosses into the personal attack zone IMHO..

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately I witnessed first hand Yamaha's marketing of the new bikes where they introduced the Star Riders who designed the new bike and chose the V-Twin platform.. Then later, at the Americade world release I sat in a front row seat and listened to the Yamaha reps proclaiming clearly again that it was indeed the Star Riders design input that resulted in the production of the SVTC and Eluder.. Later I actually met some of these folks and reconfirmed that it was, in fact,, their input and theirs alone that did this.. No sneak teams from Yamaha up into Canada were mentioned...

This is why I keep mentioning that I wish I had access to the "Star Touring" forums as it would be very interesting to see just how many of the folks who are responsible for the new bikes design actually now are riding them..

 

 

 

and at the end of the day,,, that IS the rub XV!!! Mom Yam actually gave the new Venture "star billing" (no pun intended) with marketing words that said those words (NO COMPETITION),, they clearly stated the new bike was going to turn the touring world upside down!! It was the play on those very words that is, IMHO, a big part of what is now creating slow sales for them and continued open contriversy about whether or not the move toward as a clone to HD and chasing the Harley world, and going toe to toe with the leader in V-Twin design (HD) on MSRP was a good one or not..

IMHO as well as many others,,, just like you point out, had Mom Yam of sought design assistance from the faithful Venture owners of the past and heard what they clearly stated in threads like this one,,, I whole heartily agree/believe that there really would be NO COMPETITION, the touring really would have been turned up side down AND,, these on going contriversial debates would be one of many voices screaming ROCK ON MOM YAM instead of openly questioning her judgement!!!!!

 

Respectively read, and noted. Puc, you have (and other's) every and all rights to how the 2018 release impacted you. Pretty much the same feelings for myself and my wife regarding our waiting for the 'new Wing' reveal'. All of us, our own personal sense or manufacturer 'betrayal Have a great next few days... Yeah...I easily get it...whether on a dedicated Wing forum...or on a dedicated Yamaha Venture franchise forum. Easily understood....

[Guest NNY]

Talking about 2018 Yamaha Star Ventures..... Off for some Hills and mountains of Vermont...in about 15 minutes! Well...a stop first at a Timmies...THAT is tradition! I'll let those fabulous running lights, carve out the road ahead...Highway 401, to Gananoque, then over through New York...and then over to 'them thar hills of Maple Syrup Country!

 

Take care...and have your own fun, these next few days!

 

Your post has me in a singing mood; "I'm gonna preach it in the mountains, I'm gonna preach it to the plains, I'm gonna preach it to the starry sky, I'm gonna witness for the Saints!"

 

Love that spiritual....yeah..I like Gospel. Sounds great coming off of a banjo!

 

Gospel Joe

 

Hey Joe,

You are right in my neck of woods.....or river in my case. I live in the 1000 Islands, US side Clayton across from Gan. You sound like you crossed at the TI Bridge (their doing some paving work around the bridge.....as you might have noticed!). I'd like to invite you to our riding group...it is a CANAM group with members from both nations. If you Facebook I have a link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/402219009880697/ we/I ride all over, plenty of time spent in Vermont, the Adirondacks, Ontario, PA...all over NY state and much more. Riding down to the Smokey Mountains and staying a week in September.

Ride Safe... In the Wind

[XV1100SE]

Just to summarize....

Anyone with an SVCT or Eluder....great bike ! Enjoy the ride and you are part of the Venture family.

The rest of us Gen 1 and Gen 2 will still wonder about "what might have been" but it is what it is and life goes on.

From ride reports Yamaha put a good engine in the '18 model that surpasses other v-twin touring bikes and beats the competition.

[Flyinfool]

I am sure it is just a matter of time, and not a lot of time, before a SVTC ends up next to a 1st gen at a stop light, and then we will know.........

[cowpuc]

I am sure it is just a matter of time, and not a lot of time, before a SVTC ends up next to a 1st gen at a stop light, and then we will know.........

 

Nahhh,,, we already know (C vids),,

keeping in mind that this is comparing the little 74 inch vs 113 inch big twin so its really not apples to apples,,,,, what would really be interesting is to see how that other Yamaha scoot with the 1700cc V-4 would compare to the closer in size 1800cc/113inch if loaded down with all the xtra weight on it like Tip, Tweeks and I (or other normal touring riders) typically travel.. That would be interesting..

 

big one

 

little one

[RDawson]

I am sure it is just a matter of time, and not a lot of time, before a SVTC ends up next to a 1st gen at a stop light, and then we will know.........

Oh I've been waiting on that.

[snyper316]

Oh I've been waiting on that.

Me too I will battle it out in a quarter mile with one.

 

Never ride faster then your angel can fly. I am as free as the wind on my face.

[Slynky]

I think Don pretty well nailed the feeling of the 1-2 gen riders. Yes a lot of ragging on each other goes on in good fun, mine faster, mines better, etc. I have both the 1st and 2nd gen bikes. I do wish the 07 had the power and fixed fairing of the 86, I also wish the 86 was as comfortable as the 07. Neither one is perfect but I have a blast on both. I don't hold Ill feelings toward Yam or the owners of the 3rds at all. I don't foresee me ever owning a 3rd gen, V-twins are everywhere and do nothing for me. I will still congratulate anyone who has one and likes it for finding what they wanted, they are great looking bikes no doubt. In my eye it's just another V-twin though as far as me buying one. I ride with HDs, Hondas, and Kawasakis too, I'm just as happy for them finding what they wanted. With that being said, how many of you 3rd genners would have still bought that same bike if it had 4 pistons and a radiator? I'm not asking as a joke but just wonder if Yam would've turned off many riders with it. And yes even though it's a totally new design, as long as it says Venture it'll be a 3rd gen to me, no offense intended.

Oh and by the way both of mine still have cassette players. NANNER NANNER. That's one change I think everybody wanted.

 

As a new 3rd Gen owner, I've been lurking here on the forum for a few weeks... I registered on the forum so I could respond to this question with my perspective...

 

Over the years, I've owned several makes and models of bikes. Prior to the new Venture, my most recent bike, which I still own and love is an '06 Roadliner. I have well over 100k miles on that bike and it has never given me anything but pleasure and rock solid reliability. I was window-shopping new bikes and came across the new Venture and Eluder... I had never considered a true touring bike until I saw these and instantly recognized the motor that had given me so many years and miles of faithful service. My wife was with me, so we hopped on and took a test ride on both the Eluder and the Venture. She was sold on the Venture as it provided so nicely for her comfort. That sealed the deal and I bought the bike that afternoon. I've had it for close to a month now and have zero regrets. It definitely feels a little "neutered" compared to my Roadliner, but I have quite a bit of aftermarket performance pieces added to that, so I can't truly remember how it felt stock.

 

Had I not recognized the 113 CI motor in the Venture and Eluder, I doubt my interest in test-riding a touring bike would ever have been piqued. So from my perspective, the motor is the reason I tried the bike. If it didn't have the motor I already knew so well, it's unlikely I'd have given it a chance.

 

For those of us who came from the Roadliner/Stratoliner family, the new 3rd Gens provide an attractive upgrade into the world of touring bikes.

 

Cheers!

-Rob

Edited May 23, 2018 by Slynky

[XV1100SE]

... I have well over 100k miles on that bike and it has never given me anything but pleasure and rock solid reliability. ....

-Rob

 

From your perspective, would you say that 100k miles is high mileage?

 

Not a dig by any means. Just wondering....if you found a bike with that motor and it had 100k miles, would you say it was a high mileage bike?

 

To be fair so you know where the question is coming from....some of us would say that on the V4 100k miles is "broken in", high mileage would be closer to 200k to 250k miles.

 

I've had v-twins before (last one was a '99 Virago 1100 SE - hence my screen name of XV1100SE - that I had from new in '99 until 2011) and put about 70,000 km on it. My view at that time was that 70k km was getting into the "high mileage range and better to sell it before the resale value took a big hit. Is this a true evaluation of mileage on a v-twin motor or a fallacy?

 

Open to comments from those more knowledgable than myself.

 

EDIT - did a search and the common number seems to be between 75k and 100k miles for a v-twin. These numbers were posted around the 2010 time frame frame.

Edited May 23, 2018 by XV1100SE

[Slynky]

I think this whole topic could easily become an overgeneralization of the merits of a V-twin vs a V4... there are good V4 motors and there are bad V4 motors... likewise there are good and bad V-twin motors. I know of several Stratoliner owners with 200k or more miles on their bikes without any issue, so the motor is certainly capable of that kind of mileage if properly maintained. Likewise I know of people with bikes with V4's that haven't even hit 100k... perhaps because of poor maintenance or perhaps poor engine design... but probably not just because it was a V4.

 

Back in my early years, the Chevy big-block 396 was notorious for throwing rods... that didn't mean big block V8's were bad... that motor was just poorly designed.

 

I think saying a particular type of motor is good/bad is an overgeneralization. Lifespan of a motor has far more to do with quality of maintenance, design quality, and the type of use... (highway miles are "easier" on a motor than city driving).

Edited May 23, 2018 by Slynky

[RDawson]

Welcome to the nut house. I recommend you join up, its well worth the $12. Enjoy the new ride.

[XV1100SE]

I think this whole topic could easily become an overgeneralization of the merits of a V-twin vs a V4... there are good V4 motors and there are bad V4 motors... ....

 

Was just looking for a generalized response. Agree that there are good motors and bad ones....always has been. Just interested in a comment of if you were looking to purchase a used bike and it had a v-twin (or V4)... what would you consider to be high mileage. Thinking resale value. And I agree with you that properly maintained with regular oil changes a motor could last well beyond what some would consider to be high mileage. But given you didn't know the maintenance on a bike, would you reduce the price or consider a v-twin that had 100,000 miles? In general, regardless of manufacturer or specific engine.

 

I know that some Harley owners might consider 60,000 miles to be high, simply because an engine overhaul is close to be being required. (not necessarily current Harley motor but previously).

[Slynky]

Was just looking for a generalized response. Agree that there are good motors and bad ones....always has been. Just interested in a comment of if you were looking to purchase a used bike and it had a v-twin (or V4)... what would you consider to be high mileage. Thinking resale value. And I agree with you that properly maintained with regular oil changes a motor could last well beyond what some would consider to be high mileage. But given you didn't know the maintenance on a bike, would you reduce the price or consider a v-twin that had 100,000 miles? In general, regardless of manufacturer or specific engine.

 

I know that some Harley owners might consider 60,000 miles to be high, simply because an engine overhaul is close to be being required. (not necessarily current Harley motor but previously).

 

I would consider ANY non-diesel motor as high mileage if it had more than 100k miles and I did not know the maintenance history. It wouldn't matter if it was a twin or a V4... or any other gasoline engine type.

 

I'm certainly no expert, but both motor designs have their pros and cons and I've never seen an article by a true expert saying that lifespan is substantially better for one versus the other, if maintenance, usage type, and design/build quality are equal. I think the fact that probably 80%+ of the V-twins in existence were designed by a single manufacturer with a less than stellar reliability history could have skewed public opinion of V-twins in general to the point that there is a strong public sense that they don't last as long as other motor designs. Not bashing, I've owned two Harley's and loved them both. Check the Motoguzzi forums and you will find quite a lot of posts from riders who LOVE their twins and have substantial mileage on them. Or better yet, check the Star forums for Roadstar/Roadliner/Stratoliner/Raider V-twins and see how those users have experienced the modern V-twin designs of Yamaha.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Slynky

[RDawson]

Slynky you are exactly the type of buyer I was hoping to hear from. We know the V twin turned off a lot of potential buyers. I was wondering how many came in excited for it vs how many like the SV for the rest of th design. It's just a weird curiosity of mine. Now on my point of view for Don's high mileage question the Yam V4s are well known for going well past 200-250,000 miles so 100k wouldn't concern me at all on a bike that appears to be taken care of. On an air cooled engine I'd be a little more gun shy.

Now where are the pics of that new machine? I do like the looks of em, the front reminds of a Camaro for some reason.

[American]

Slynky you are exactly the type of buyer I was hoping to hear from. We know the V twin turned off a lot of potential buyers. I was wondering how many came in excited for it vs how many like the SV for the rest of th design. It's just a weird curiosity of mine. Now on my point of view for Don's high mileage question the Yam V4s are well known for going well past 200-250,000 miles so 100k wouldn't concern me at all on a bike that appears to be taken care of. On an air cooled engine I'd be a little more gun shy.

Now where are the pics of that new machine? I do like the looks of em, the front reminds of a Camaro for some reason.

 

Actually Yamaha says the front design inspiration came from a 70's Challenger.

[Slynky]

I posted a pic of her, can add more tonight when I get home from work. Coincidentally, she is in the shop today to have the break-in service done and to add the Nav system and foglights... I got the standard version as opposed to the TC. I will be picking her up tonight on my way home.

 

I tend to look at engine reliability in a different way since I've owned so many different types of bikes with different types of engines... I've had a Suzuki Savage thumper, several twins, a V4, an Inline 4, and even a Triumph Speed Triple with 3 cylinders. I've had good and bad experiences with all of them to one degree or another... with the exception of the Roadliner which has just been bulletproof for me. It was that experience with this particular motor that led me to choosing the new Venture (and keeping the Roadliner since it's so damn much fun to ride).

 

I get the point about air-cooled vs water-cooled and there certainly is validity to that, though I'm not sure that validity fully applies in this case... In pure air-cooled vs water-cooled, the water-cooled engine will tend to have a longer life on average. This motor though is not PURE air-cooled... it, and it's predecessor motor, are hybrids and have an oil-cooler that works pretty much exactly like a radiator in a water-cooled engine. Air blows across the oil-cooler and cools the oil which in turn helps cool the engine and also assists the oil with maintaining viscosity. The stock V-twins on older HDs were PURE air-cooled unless you added an aftermarket oil-cooler and only had the jug fins to help dissipate heat. This is one of the things that led to them having a tendency toward a shorter lifespan.

 

So, IMHO, the whole air-cooled twin vs water-cooled V4 in this particular case is based on a partially incorrect premise.

[cowpuc]

As a new 3rd Gen owner, I've been lurking here on the forum for a few weeks... I registered on the forum so I could respond to this question with my perspective...

 

Over the years, I've owned several makes and models of bikes. Prior to the new Venture, my most recent bike, which I still own and love is an '06 Roadliner. I have well over 100k miles on that bike and it has never given me anything but pleasure and rock solid reliability. I was window-shopping new bikes and came across the new Venture and Eluder... I had never considered a true touring bike until I saw these and instantly recognized the motor that had given me so many years and miles of faithful service. My wife was with me, so we hopped on and took a test ride on both the Eluder and the Venture. She was sold on the Venture as it provided so nicely for her comfort. That sealed the deal and I bought the bike that afternoon. I've had it for close to a month now and have zero regrets. It definitely feels a little "neutered" compared to my Roadliner, but I have quite a bit of aftermarket performance pieces added to that, so I can't truly remember how it felt stock.

 

Had I not recognized the 113 CI motor in the Venture and Eluder, I doubt my interest in test-riding a touring bike would ever have been piqued. So from my perspective, the motor is the reason I tried the bike. If it didn't have the motor I already knew so well, it's unlikely I'd have given it a chance.

 

For those of us who came from the Roadliner/Stratoliner family, the new 3rd Gens provide an attractive upgrade into the world of touring bikes.

 

Cheers!

-Rob

 

I think this whole topic could easily become an overgeneralization of the merits of a V-twin vs a V4... there are good V4 motors and there are bad V4 motors... likewise there are good and bad V-twin motors. I know of several Stratoliner owners with 200k or more miles on their bikes without any issue, so the motor is certainly capable of that kind of mileage if properly maintained. Likewise I know of people with bikes with V4's that haven't even hit 100k... perhaps because of poor maintenance or perhaps poor engine design... but probably not just because it was a V4.

 

Back in my early years, the Chevy big-block 396 was notorious for throwing rods... that didn't mean big block V8's were bad... that motor was just poorly designed.

 

I think saying a particular type of motor is good/bad is an overgeneralization. Lifespan of a motor has far more to do with quality of maintenance, design quality, and the type of use... (highway miles are "easier" on a motor than city driving).

 

I would consider ANY non-diesel motor as high mileage if it had more than 100k miles and I did not know the maintenance history. It wouldn't matter if it was a twin or a V4... or any other gasoline engine type.

 

I'm certainly no expert, but both motor designs have their pros and cons and I've never seen an article by a true expert saying that lifespan is substantially better for one versus the other, if maintenance, usage type, and design/build quality are equal. I think the fact that probably 80%+ of the V-twins in existence were designed by a single manufacturer with a less than stellar reliability history could have skewed public opinion of V-twins in general to the point that there is a strong public sense that they don't last as long as other motor designs. Not bashing, I've owned two Harley's and loved them both. Check the Motoguzzi forums and you will find quite a lot of posts from riders who LOVE their twins and have substantial mileage on them. Or better yet, check the Star forums for Roadstar/Roadliner/Stratoliner/Raider V-twins and see how those users have experienced the modern V-twin designs of Yamaha.http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112688

 

Hi ya Slynk and ,,,, !!!!! Very glad you found us and also glad you took a second to jump in here and share your experiences with us!!!

Also,,, on the new scoot Slynk,, she is GORGEOUS!!!!

 

Some questions,,,, I too have been wondering how the response to the new Venture has been within the Star Riders as they are who Yamaha chose as designers of the new Venture. Basically wondering how many of the Star Riders have jumped on one of the new Ventures like yourself.. To date,, I have not been able to locate any forums that lead to answering that question (although I have not spent the money to join up with "Star Touring" - I guess I am just to cheap to spend the bucks just to ask the question)... Noticing you mentioning the Strat/Liner/Raider forums to be used for research - could you direct us to those forums that may hold the answer to that question?

Also, noticing your experience with the Strat (I have a little too as I have a nephew who bought a new one in 06) and your comment about not having looked at the new Venture had it not had the 113 in it.. Does that comment also apply even if Mom Yam would have named the new bike a Stratotourer or Roadliner Tourer and then put a V-4 in it?? Because of your very good past experience with your Strat,, would you have then over looked the fact that even with your excellent experiences with your 113inch air cooled, push rod big twin, if the 113 had been abandoned to promote a water cooled V-4 placed within a new bike that clearly stated it was Yamaha's all new Stratoliner and all new Stratoliner Tourer - would you then have given the V-4 a try??

I know,, I am often told I am VERY difficult to follow sometimes,, if you need me to reword my questions,, PLEASE feel free to ask...

Puc

[American]

I posted a pic of her, can add more tonight when I get home from work. Coincidentally, she is in the shop today to have the break-in service done and to add the Nav system and foglights... I got the standard version as opposed to the TC. I will be picking her up tonight on my way home.

 

I tend to look at engine reliability in a different way since I've owned so many different types of bikes with different types of engines... I've had a Suzuki Savage thumper, several twins, a V4, an Inline 4, and even a Triumph Speed Triple with 3 cylinders. I've had good and bad experiences with all of them to one degree or another... with the exception of the Roadliner which has just been bulletproof for me. It was that experience with this particular motor that led me to choosing the new Venture (and keeping the Roadliner since it's so damn much fun to ride).

 

I get the point about air-cooled vs water-cooled and there certainly is validity to that, though I'm not sure that validity fully applies in this case... In pure air-cooled vs water-cooled, the water-cooled engine will tend to have a longer life on average. This motor though is not PURE air-cooled... it, and it's predecessor motor, are hybrids and have an oil-cooler that works pretty much exactly like a radiator in a water-cooled engine. Air blows across the oil-cooler and cools the oil which in turn helps cool the engine and also assists the oil with maintaining viscosity. The stock V-twins on older HDs were PURE air-cooled unless you added an aftermarket oil-cooler and only had the jug fins to help dissipate heat. This is one of the things that led to them having a tendency toward a shorter lifespan.

 

So, IMHO, the whole air-cooled twin vs water-cooled V4 in this particular case is based on a partially incorrect premise.

 

The 113 also sprays oil on the underside of the piston as well, Diesel engines use that as well, my 106 ci Victory Cross Country Tour also was air and oil cooled and that design also sprayed oil on the bottom of the piston. Victory's 106 engine is a good engine and one rider put 250,000 miles on his before he retired it, that bike is in some motorcycle museum today. There are other documented cases of the Victory 106 engine going over 100,000 miles without problems.

 

I have no doubt this Yamaha 113 ci engine will be a long lasting durable and reliable engine as well.

[snyper316]

Slynky you are exactly the type of buyer I was hoping to hear from. We know the V twin turned off a lot of potential buyers. I was wondering how many came in excited for it vs how many like the SV for the rest of th design. It's just a weird curiosity of mine. Now on my point of view for Don's high mileage question the Yam V4s are well known for going well past 200-250,000 miles so 100k wouldn't concern me at all on a bike that appears to be taken care of. On an air cooled engine I'd be a little more gun shy.

Now where are the pics of that new machine? I do like the looks of em, the front reminds of a Camaro for some reason.

I still think of Smokey and the bandit it looks crafted after the trans-am front to back

 

Never ride faster then your angel can fly. I am as free as the wind on my face.

[Slynky]

Cowpuc - Thanks for the warm welcome! Below are some of the more popular forums for the Roadliner/Stratoliner... personally I mainly used the Delphi one. Your point about me picking a new Roadliner/Strat if they had placed the V4 in it is very good and well taken... that would have been a new engine for me and I likely would have had reservations. So, that said, I certainly understand the caution by the Gen 1 and 2 Venture owners over this change in engines. I would like to think that having come to a place like this and heard good reviews from current riders that my caution would have been eased... but I know there is no replacement for personal experience and I likely would not have been fully convinced without trying it myself. I would encourage anyone interested in the new Venture or Eluder to go introduce themselves on the Roadliner/Stratoliner forums and ask for opinions on the motor or any other point of concern. It may not sway you one way or another, but at least you will have more knowledge and that's never a bad thing :-)

 

 

https://forums.delphiforums.com/starroadliner

 

http://www.starbikeforums.com/forums/15-stratoliner-roadliner/

 

http://www.stratolinerdeluxe.com/

[cowpuc]

The 113 also sprays oil on the underside of the piston as well, Diesel engines use that as well, my 106 ci Victory Cross Country Tour also was air and oil cooled and that design also sprayed oil on the bottom of the piston. Victory's 106 engine is a good engine and one rider put 250,000 miles on his before he retired it, that bike is in some motorcycle museum today. There are other documented cases of the Victory 106 engine going over 100,000 miles without problems.

 

I have no doubt this Yamaha 113 ci engine will be a long lasting durable and reliable engine as well.

 

I posted a pic of her, can add more tonight when I get home from work. Coincidentally, she is in the shop today to have the break-in service done and to add the Nav system and foglights... I got the standard version as opposed to the TC. I will be picking her up tonight on my way home.

 

I tend to look at engine reliability in a different way since I've owned so many different types of bikes with different types of engines... I've had a Suzuki Savage thumper, several twins, a V4, an Inline 4, and even a Triumph Speed Triple with 3 cylinders. I've had good and bad experiences with all of them to one degree or another... with the exception of the Roadliner which has just been bulletproof for me. It was that experience with this particular motor that led me to choosing the new Venture (and keeping the Roadliner since it's so damn much fun to ride).

 

I get the point about air-cooled vs water-cooled and there certainly is validity to that, though I'm not sure that validity fully applies in this case... In pure air-cooled vs water-cooled, the water-cooled engine will tend to have a longer life on average. This motor though is not PURE air-cooled... it, and it's predecessor motor, are hybrids and have an oil-cooler that works pretty much exactly like a radiator in a water-cooled engine. Air blows across the oil-cooler and cools the oil which in turn helps cool the engine and also assists the oil with maintaining viscosity. The stock V-twins on older HDs were PURE air-cooled unless you added an aftermarket oil-cooler and only had the jug fins to help dissipate heat. This is one of the things that led to them having a tendency toward a shorter lifespan.

 

So, IMHO, the whole air-cooled twin vs water-cooled V4 in this particular case is based on a partially incorrect premise.

Actually Harley Davidson, by the definition explained above,, has not been pure air cooled for many many years.. They, HD, have used oil cooling by getting the oil out of the engine cases and exposed to air movement over the hot oil to cool it since way back at the beginning.. I have had many models of Harleys and can assure you guys that this is true..

Case in point, one of my most recent old Harleys, a 1942 WLA (I named her Olivia) that served in WW2 came to me from the original owners family who's Patriarch served in the European theater and owned Olivia from the time she returned to the States after her tour of duty until I purchased her and I can assure the readers here that what I am about to explain is, in fact, true 100% stock HD with no aftermarket oil coolers added.

If you look at the pictures or watch the video below you will clearly see that Olivia's fuel tank has 2 caps.. In all actuality, the cap on the right hand side of that tank is actually an access point for her oil tank - believe it or not,, it is fact that 1/2 of what appears to be Olivias fuel tank is actually engine oil. While it may not appear to the untrained eye as an oil cooler per say,, the oil tank on Olivias back was actually designed exactly with that purpose in mind - to cool the oil by air passing over it.. Most of Olivia's predecessors had a similar design of oil an oil cooler (there was a short time that HD employed a "total loss system" where the oil pump was actually no more than a syringe mounted on the oil tank half of the fuel tank and to provide lubrication to the engine the rider would occasionally "pump" the syringe which would result in oil flow thru the bearings/journals with the exiting oil exiting out on the chain/ground and NOT being returned to the tank) - even the real early model Harleys with the rectangular tanks had them..

On other HD's that I have owned,,, including Choppers I have built from HD parts,, housed their oil bags (what us old timers called their oil tanks) under their seats but exposed front and sides to allow air flow for oil cooling.

In 78 I won a brand new Shovelhead Low Rider on a job site and my Low Rider (named her Hoglia) came fully equipped with a factory HD forward mounted oil cooler that had the structure of a "radiator" as suggested above and it was, in fact, a genuine HD part..