1984 Venture Royale

[rwhitehead]

I have a 1984 venture Royale, this past weekend while coming up to a red light went to down shift and I can not go lower then 4th gear, talked to dealership he will not touch my bike because of how old it is and to get parts for it. I do not have the knowledge, time or money to rebuild the transmission so I was wondering would it be better to part out the bike or just sell it? I know that being a old bike there is people that would love to have the bike.

[rwhitehead]

[Freebird]

You may be jumping the gun. The fix may be very simple. There are a number of things that could be causing this issue. It could be the pins have fallen out of the drum due to a star washer tab. There are others here who will reply with more detail as I've not actually had to do that job.

 

If you are determined to just sell the bike and not mess with it, you will need to become a supporting member to post it in the classifieds.

[rwhitehead]

If I can get it fixed and not cost me a arm and a leg to get fixed I would rather do that

[cowpuc]

I totally agree with Freebird response R,, what you are describing is actually not that uncommon with almost all metric motorcycles (dirtbikes and street). Most of them (including your Venture) have a small lever mechanism attached to the shifting arm that bumps against one of a few pins that are imbedded into the end of the shift drum - this is what rotates the drum that the shift forks ride in which causes the forks to change positions to move the gear sets around..

Fortunately your Venture is like most if these selectors, if not all, and is have been located outside of the transmission area, making fairly easy to repair.. Unfortunately, the selector mechanism is located under the clutch basket on our Ventures, this makes it a little more difficult to get to BUT no where near as time consuming as pulling motors and splitting cases.. The job can be done leaving the engine entirely in the scoot and with minimal part removal - the pics I am about to share are of an engine out of the bike but this is not necessary. Here is a link to really good write up found in our Tech Section.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?40713-Clunky-Shifting

 

If you look closely at the pics pay special attention to the 2nd and 3rd pic - you can clearly see the "pins" Freebird is referring to. Also look at the other pics and you will see the arm that rests down on these pins.. I have ran into a number of issues dealing with exactly what you are talking about and can tell you that almost 100 percent of times I have repaired a bike with the symptoms you are describing, the solution is found within the mechanism you are looking at.. It is not always the pins though (although this is VERY common) - I have seen broken mechanism arms - have brazed a few in bad situations (usually from someone coming down on a shifter off a jump), broken retainer springs (VERY COMMON), cam follower that holds the drum in place wears out (less common)..

Sooo,, what to do.. That is entirely up to you.. Our mainstream shops around here will not work on bikes older than 8 years old either - its hard but working on the stuff can be a lot like working on old plumbing - more hassle than its worth (from a business standpoint). On the same token though, there are many smaller shops around here (and some dern good ones too) that will work on just about anything - I wonder if you have that in your location? You will probably need one to spin off the clutch hub nut for you, maybe.maybe not.. Another option would be for you to remove the clutch cover, take a peek inside and see what you think.. Never hurts to look,, besides,, it aint going any where like it is!! Never know, you might get inside there and find out it aint so hard and you will be our next VR Venture Guru!!

 

PS and just a little inside gear head FYI,, if you do decide to take a shot at repairing it (they are great bikes R, getting older so they require some wrench spinning but hey - thats half the fun!!) you will probably find yourself needing a shop manual - save the bucks for the shop manual and pay the dues here - there are some guru's around here that Yamaha should have hired to write the manual!!

 

Hope this helps!

Puc

[Morev4]

Let me know if you need parts, I can help

[Du-Rron]

And Yamaha knows about this and says the following:

 

[camos]

Besides the pins that have been mentioned, perhaps the shift difficulty is due to a lack of lubrication in the shift arm pivot. A few drops of engine oil just might make a difference. Always try doing the easy things first.... right?

[MiCarl]

And Yamaha knows about this and says the following:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]98935[/ATTACH]

 

And then they superseded the shift sector with one that does not use that sheet metal plate to hold the pins in.

 

Cowpuc is correct, there is a greater than 90% probability you either broke the sector or had the metal tabs open up and let a pin fall out. It's a moderate skill level job that can be done in your driveway without draining the oil, but you do have to remove the clutch. An extra pair of hands helps - the mechanism has several spring loaded parts that need to be held out of the way to get the shift sector in and out. The parts are still available. We do one or two every year in my shop.

 

If you can find a shop do do it it should be about a $300 repair.

 

If you do it yourself or have it done get the new shift sector that captures the pins without the sheet metal guard. It'll save you doing it again.

[cowpuc]

Besides the pins that have been mentioned, perhaps the shift difficulty is due to a lack of lubrication in the shift arm pivot. A few drops of engine oil just might make a difference. Always try doing the easy things first.... right?

 

ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY 100 PERCENT RIGHT ON TARGET!!

 

EXCELLENT POINT CAMOS!!!

[MiCarl]

If you can shift between 4 and 5, but downshifting from 4 the lever moves fully down but the transmission doesn't shift it will be the shift sector. Every other part involved also is used in shifting between 4 and 5.

[Prairiehammer]

The shift sector (or as Yamaha calls a "segment") from the Second Gen Venture: 4NK-18185-00-00, is a direct replacement for the sheet metal captured First Gen shift segment.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Prairiehammer

[Du-Rron]

And then they superseded the shift sector with one that does not use that sheet metal plate to hold the pins in.

.

 

Yeah, I kinda think my point was that the dealer should have known about this TSB and should not have spouted $$$$$ right off the bat scaring the hopitey out of a customer to the point of making that customer considering selling or parting out his bike. The dealer could have still made a dollar and had a satisfied customer by bringing up the shifting situation like we all have.

[rwhitehead]

Very true but the shop also said because of last time my bike was in the shop and we could not get a part new (got lucky and found it on E bay) they have changed the policy of working on anything older then 15 years. Also only has one mechanic in the shop.

[Wizard765]

When replacing the shift sector you can get the cast one for a V-Max (early 2000s) I believe there is locktite on that screw and you need to heat it up then use an impact on it to get it loose. I used a hand held one and a Hammer.. Never have to worry about it again.. Actually not a difficult job at all. You don't even need to drain the oil if it's on the side stand. I would have a look in there and see. Sometimes the pin is loose and sometimes it comes all the way out and is gone so you also need the pin.

 

Little story here.. I had arranged a ride I was leading a few years ago on a Sunday after church.. Well on the way to church I had the same thing happen to me but it wouldn't go past 2nd.. so I thought the tranny was toast. Got her home and started calling people to cancel the ride and posted on here about the problem.. GeorgeS and Squeeze replied right away with what the problem was.. so I took the cover off the clutch and took a look. Sure enough a pin was just hanging there so I pushed it back in and bent the retainer back over it.. Luckily I didn't ruin the gasket so I put her back together and called everyone back again. Had an AWESOME day with good friends and thanked those on the site here.. The $12 was peanuts compared to the knowledge, help and friends I've made here..

In the winter I got the new segment and replaced it..

[rwhitehead]

OK thanks for the feedback,getting the manual this week and will take a look on Sunday to see what I need. Hopefully I can get my ride back up fairly quickly, again thanks all for the information. Will let everyone know when I take a look this weekend what I see.

[MiCarl]

As promised, I'm going to try and walk you through it. Use the pictures in the service manual and their torque specs for reassembly. We just did an ATV this week so I think I'm current, but pay attention as you go and ask questions if something doesn't seem right.

 

1) You can drain the oil, but if you work on the side stand you'll lose very little oil. Put something under the right side crank case cover to catch any oil that drips.

2) Remove the RH body panel (the one with the rubber attachment strap at the bottom) and the cover over the oil fill (2 screws).

3) Remove the RH crankcase cover, lay your bolts out some way you can keep track of where they go on reinstall. The cover likely won't pull off, if it's been together awhile the gasket will stick it together. DO NOT PRY! Tap around the cover (at the seam with the crankcase) with a soft face mallet. When the cover starts to separate the sound will become dull. Do it several places and you should be able to pull it off.

4) The shift sector is behind the clutch - near the bottom rear. You should be able to see it. You can have your helper work the shift lever so you can see the mechanism that rotates the sector. Your missing pin will be from the area where the hooks in the mechanism are passing through the shift sector. You should see the pin sticking out or the bent tab where it escaped. Or it's possible the shift sector is broken (like the ATV we just did) and you'll see a chunk missing. If you see pieces laying around below the clutch fish them out.

 

IF YOU DON'T SEE THE PROBLEM STOP HERE AND TAKE PICTURES OF THE SECTOR. POST HERE FOR OPINIONS ON WHETHER YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK.

 

5) Put the transmission in 5th gear.

6) Have your assistant hold the brake pedal down while you break loose the six screws holding the clutch springs.

7) Your assistant can release the brake. Back each of the six screws out a turn or so. Repeat until the spring pressure is removed. You need to work them all out together like that so you don't break anything from uneven force on the pressure plate. Once they're all loose you can remove the screws and springs.

8) I think there is specific alignment between the pressure plate and clutch basket. Check the clutch assembly section of the service manual and find the. This will help you understand how it needs to be assembled.

9) Remove the pressure plate but leave all the clutch plates in the basket. UNLESS you want to measure them all and fully service the clutch while in there (consult the service manual). For the shift sector job I believe they can stay put and you won't have to sort them out on reassembly.

10) In the center of the clutch is a bearing assembly. Carefully lift it out, noting how it goes back on reassembly.

11) In the center of the clutch is a nut. It has a special lock washer with tabs that prevent the nut from turning. You need to bend the tabs back to turn the nut. You will need a new washer on reassembly (90215-25218-00).

12) Have your assistant really bear down on the rear brake, this will hold the transmission from turning while you break that center nut loose. CAUTION, if there isn't enough braking force the motorcycle may move. Make sure you don't pull it off the side stand. Remove the nut and discard the lock washer.

13) Now grab behind the clutch basket (Yamaha calls it Primary Driven Gear) with your fingers and use your thumbs to hold the clutch plates in. You can pull off the clutch basket, clutch boss and clutch plates as an assembly.

 

At this point the shift sector and internal shift mechanism should be clearly visible. Have your assistant move the shift lever so you can see how things work. Take a good look (or even a picture) so you can get all those various arms back into place later.

 

14) Now it's best to get the transmission into neutral. The transmission doesn't like to shift while it's not turning. Rotate the transmission input shaft (at the center of the clutch) back and forth while you turn the shift sector toward neutral. You can tell which direction that is by having your assistant try to downshift - rotate the sector the same direction the mechanism is trying to turn it. After you get it to 3rd gear your assistant will probably be able to down shift it to neutral for you.

15) Now you need to get that torx bolt out of the center of the shift sector but you don't want to apply a lot of force to the shift drum or forks. On the one we just did we were able to get a small pry bar into the protrusions on the end of the sector to hold it but you have the old style sector and might not be able to do that. Try to find some way to anchor it.

16) Part of the shift mechanism is probably in the way of getting onto that torx screw. If your assistant holds the shift lever up or down it'll move things to where you can get in there.

17) Remove the torx screw. As pointed out earlier it has red loc-tite on it and heat might be necessary. Make sure not to overheat any of the springs that reside in the area. Also, don't strip that screw or you open a whole new can of worms.

 

If you used heat to get the screw out stop here for a half hour and let things cool down.

 

18) Various spring loaded parts of the shift mechanism will be in the way of getting the shift sector and its components out. Your assistant can help hold things back with a long screw driver while you get it out.

 

You need to recover all pieces of the shift sector. If you don't have them fish around in the crankcase with a magnet to try and recover them. If that doesn't work they might be stuck to the magnet on the oil drain plug.

 

Now you need replacement parts. The parts in the fiche are 26H-18561-01-00(PLATE, SIDE 1), 4NK-18185-00-00(SEGMENT) and 4NK-18141-00-00(PLATE, STOPPER) plus the 6 pins. Order all three (the PLATE, STOPPER you have may not work with the new model segment) plus any pins that are lost or damaged. The SEGMENT is a new part number and I believe it eliminates PLATE, SIDE 1. PLATE, SIDE 1 is inexpensive so you might as well get it in case I'm wrong. Also replace the torx screw if you damaged it and include a new gasket in your order.

 

Assembly is pretty much the reverse of disassembly. One pin in the sector is longer than the other 5, it locates the sector on the shift drum and needs to be in the proper hole. The service manual will help you sort this out. There also might be one hole in the sector that doesn't get a pin - again, the service manual is your friend.

 

Getting the new sector in around the shift mechanism requires some gyrations and help getting those various spring arms out of the way. Take your time and make sure you get it right. Remember the red loc-tite on the torx screw.

 

Good luck - it's not as bad as the detailed description makes it seem.

[OutKast]

i got the second gen one piece part and the clutch upgrade kit w/ gasket both from skydoc_17. You have to pull the clutch basket anyway. On any first gen, might as well do both at same time and never have to go back in!

[Prairiehammer]

Now you need replacement parts. The parts in the fiche are 26H-18561-01-00(PLATE, SIDE 1), 4NK-18185-00-00(SEGMENT) and 4NK-18141-00-00(PLATE, STOPPER) plus the 6 pins. Order all three (the PLATE, STOPPER you have may not work with the new model segment) plus any pins that are lost or damaged. The SEGMENT is a new part number and I believe it eliminates PLATE, SIDE 1. PLATE, SIDE 1 is inexpensive so you might as well get it in case I'm wrong.

 

Great write up, Carl!

 

However, the parts requirements should be modified. If the new style segment 4NK-18185-00-00 is used, then the Plate, Side 1 cannot be used in conjunction with the new segment. Also, there is no need to order a new Plate, stopper. It does not require replacement to use the new style segment.

Most importantly, though, is the requirement for new dowel pins. The old style dowel pins are too long to fit into the new style segment. One will need to order five short pins (93604-12037-00) and one long pin (93604-16092-00), or one could cut down the old dowel pins, I suppose.

 

These new dowel pins (93604-12037-00) are available on eBay: http://tinyurl.com/qf6xesl

And here for the longer dowel (93604-16092-00): http://tinyurl.com/q3tpegt

In case your dealer doesn't have them.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Prairiehammer

[MiCarl]

Great write up, Carl!

 

However, the parts requirements should be modified. If the new style segment 4NK-18185-00-00 is used, then the Plate, Side 1 cannot be used in conjunction with the new segment. Also, there is no need to order a new Plate, stopper. It does not require replacement to use the new segment.

Most importantly, though, is the requirement for new dowel pins. The old dowel pins are too long to fit into the new style segment. One will need to order five long pins (93604-12037-00) and one short pin (93604-16092-00), or one could cut down the old dowel pins, I suppose.

 

The first gen fiche is not showing those pins. It's possible it's deficient. Wouldn't hurt to have them.

[OutKast]

Use the second gen parts. Absolutely. Positively. For sure. REVIEW THE SECOND GEN FICHE.