Valve Adjustment Questions

[1sttenor]

I have a couple of questions before several of us head to the Smokys in June. In reality how often should we be checking the valve adjustment, and is there a tech article for it that I can't locate? Thanks Guys

[BOO]

Not sure about the Tech article, there probably is one somewhere on the site.

I have had 4 different Ventures and never had a valve shimmed. I'm guessing at the mileage but the 4 bikes combined had 310,000 miles put on them.

I know there is a recommended mileage to have the valves checked on the new bikes but I think the customer has to pay for that and it wouldn't be cheap I'm guessing.

Maybe someone else will chime in with some different ideas.

Jerry

[BradT]

Checked a couple at 50-60,000 miles and they were still within specs.

 

I would not worry too much about them. Not sure what the recomended time to check them is.

 

Brad

[big mike]

I have a couple of questions before several of us head to the Smokys in June. In reality how often should we be checking the valve adjustment, and is there a tech article for it that I can't locate? Thanks Guys

My owners manual says to check valve clearance every 26,600 miles or 42,000 km, and to check and adjust while it is cold. According to my Clymer manual you have to have several specialty tools and the engine has to be out of the bike. If you have any questions let me know and i'll try to get any info to you that I can.

 

Big Mike

[James Ardrey]

I had mine checked at the recommended 26,000 mile interval on my 97 RS and my 03 Venture and they were both in perfect specs. I understand that they are seldom out of adjustment due to the design and I will probably wait until I have at least 100,000 mi. before I check again. You do not have to remove the engine from the frame for this procedure. The engine has to be cold and to have it done is around 200.00 dollars. I only did it on my 03 to avoid voiding the warranty. It has about 65,000 miles on it and it starts and runs great. No signs of valve problems.

[hig4s]

Checking the valves on almost any bike is not that tough.. And adjusting them on the RSV shouldn't be that tough either,, they are shim in bucket, you need a special tool to hold down the valve while you are changing the shim, but unlike more modern bikes (Including 1800 'Wings) you don't need to remove the cams to change the shims. I think it is the same tool you needed to change the shims in the old Yamaha 650 and 750 Secas which I probably still have around somewhere.

 

Another reason to not want them to modernize the RSV.

[1sttenor]

Thanks Guys. I was wondering. I have no problems, plenty of power, smooth, no popping, just great. I was wondering if anyone did need to have them looked over.

[schultzb1]

I recently purchased a 97 Royal Star Tour Classic with 12,600 original miles. The bike looks as new, was running perfectly, idled smoothly at a low rpm and carburated and excellerated smoothly.

 

At the advice of Steve, my motorcycle, ATV, and boat mechanic for the last 25 years, I decided to give it a complete tune-up as the plugs were original and the tires needed to be replaced from old age. I am glad I did.

 

My mechanic (an independent gentleman who had worked several years as the lead mechanic at a large Yamaha dealership) found 3 intake valves that were out of spec (tight). Two were slightly tight, and the 3rd was actually out of spec. He has all the Yamaha service tools and was able to easily swap out the shims for the correct size to set the valves back to spec.

 

The bottom line is that I am glad that I had this done instead of waiting until the 26,600 mile (42,000 km) service interval.

 

Steve has also had experience swapping in V-Max cams into Royal Stars. The owner at the dealership he worked at had their very 1st Royal Star (his personal ride) modified as such by Steve.

 

I showed Steve (the mechanic) the threads from "pegscraper" on fitting the 32mm carbs. He thought that it was a "pretty neat" conversion, especially the custom turned carb bases, and also noted with interest the use of the V-Boost system actuated manually.

 

Bottom line, service your ride and don't ignore the valves. Any solid valve system needs to be checked as all valve trains wear, even those as well designed and understressed as the V-4 in the Royal Stars and Ventures.

 

Ironically, my Royal Star appears to be a cosmetic match to the "Pegscraper's" ride. Now iif it just had the "suds" like his has......

 

 

 

Keep the shiny side up and Ride like the other guy can't see you!!

[2Whlsrollin]

Brought mine new Dec "05" and have not had the valve's adjusted. The bike has 57 thousand miles now. Runs great, but the thought of having this done keeps popping in my head. Wanted to get some feed back from ya'll to see if this is something that needs done. Does it void your warranty not having it done?

[Ponch]

Valve adjustment is required at 24,00 miles (per dealer). I don't know how it might affect the warranty, but at $400.00, I chose not to do it. Motor runs great and doesn't make noise.

[Marcarl]

The adjustment can go out in 2 ways, tight and loose. If it becomes loose you will hear the clatter and being a little loose is not a real big issue, mostly caused by cam wear,(not very likely) it just causes a little more noise and may hamper performance a little, you maybe not even notice.

Being tight on the other hand is more common, and is caused by valve seat wear or the valve seating better after being used for some time. If it's too tight, the valve will not seat long enough to cool properly and then you end up with a burnt valve, and maybe a burnt valve seat and that is a problem,,,,, lots more than $400.00,,, and will adversley effect performance, enjoyment, and fuel mileage, and it doesn't get better over time.

[BigBoyinMS]

Valve adjustment is required at 24,00 miles (per dealer). I don't know how it might affect the warranty, but at $400.00, I chose not to do it. Motor runs great and doesn't make noise.

 

As far as warranty is concerned, they can only deny that part that wasn't done. In other words ... if they require a valve check at 24k and you burn a valve at 25k then they may deny that but if the rear diff breaks they can't deny that because you didn't check the valves.

And even then they have to show that not getting the check-up resulted in the failure.

Edited October 11, 2008 by BigBoyinMS
additional clarification

[Guest JGorom]

I had mine checked at 30,000 miles...three of my intake valves (4,1,and 2) were too tight. Cost was $200.00. When valves are too tight they do not make any noise so if your waiting to hear noise you may have to wait until a valve burns out. I'm not saying it will...these bikes are usually in spec when it comes to the valve clearance...but for me $200 is cheap insurance against a major expense. The vast majority of time they are too tight by the way.

 

My bike was running very well before I had them checked...only problem...my mileage dropped considerably. After checking the carbs and bike for poor vacum, I did a carb tune-up that brought back some of my lost mileage, but the mileage was still off by quite a bit. I should point out that I check my mileage with every fill up and had seen the mileage drop considerably over three tankfuls. I also always use Mobil gas so it was not a gas issue.

 

I have only run one tankful through my bike thus far and the mileage has returned to previous levels. The dealer I used owns his own shop and was a former racer, his dad owned the shop before him...bottom line...he knows how to tune and wrench. His son is the current USA flat track #1 rider for the past two years in his age group. Dad is his wrench and teacher. When I had it done I asked him to do the job which he agreed. His is a wonderful Christian man and has always treated me fairly. Anyway...I just wanted to say that $200 is a lot of money for me right now...but I'm really glad I had it done because I had some valves that were out of spec on my bike.

Edited October 11, 2008 by JGorom

[CMIKE]

From racing the Yamaha YZ250F all these years we checked and adjusted the valves on our racing bikes. They to have the shim and bucket with dual camshafts. The Yamaha 250F is a tank of a engine and has a reputation of staying together with its 5 valve design. In fact just like the Venture...rock solid engine. I ran a 06 250F almost 100 hours before the bike indicated they needed adjustement. Power usually stays the same...the only indication you get...it will all of a sudden begin to be hard to start. You may have to push it off to crank it first thing in the morning but after that...all will be well for the rest of the day. The intake valves stretch causing them to tighten up. You could physically measure them and see how much they stretched after removed. These are titanium valves. I ran that 06 engine till I ran out of tolerance and added all the shim thickness I could. It was always a strong engine. I sold it before I had to install new valves and seats. I was afraid I was gonna snap off and ruin the engine. Unless you run the snot of it all the time...usually the valves would stay in tolerance. I have an 07 250F now with a lot if upgrades in the engine (different cams, high compression piston, inginition box) and the valves get checked regularly just to keep it in top running order. With a engine that has a rev limter set at 14500 RPM...and hits it regually what do you expect.

 

Since I have only owned a Venture since Sept of last year I was wondering where do you get the shims to adjust the valves on the Venture. For the motorcross engines Hot Cams makes a shim kit, (two boxes of every shim you could posslible need $85 - 250F shims 7.48 MM dia.or 450F 9.48 MM diameter) so when you take it down to check them if there is a problem you just took care of it while you were in there. I also have a spread sheet where you record the gaps along with the shim installed and it will tell you what new shim you need to get it in tolerance.

Is there a place you can buy an assortment of shims you need to do a valve adjustment or do you have to tear it all down to check them then order which shims you need to get them in spec then tear it back down to do the work. Do most dealers keep these shims in stock? I know you need some special tools to remove the shim/bucket but I have always did this in the past and why stop now?

Warranty...may be an issue but...I think I would do a better job on it than most dealers mechanics I have ever dealt with. On the 250F all I ever seen only half assed done the job right.

 

Give me some input on this.

[hig4s]

www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1541

 

standard SOB 25mm shims. Same one the old Kaw Z1s and Yamaha Secas used. kit available here

 

individuals available from Z1 or from Bike Bandit.

[Squeeze]

I wouldn't buy a Shim Kit. You never will get use out of at least half the Shims in such a Kit.

 

Mostly you'll need 260, 265 for the EX and 280, 275, 270 for the IN Valves. The 280/275 are common and mostly come out of the Factory Settings and pile up over several Settings and 260, 265 and 270 are running low.

 

So my Advice would be: buy 1 with 250, 3 with 255, 6 with 260, 8 with 265, 4 x 270, 4x275, 2x 280, 1x285, 1x290. That should cover all you need for one Motor and you will have some left over for the next Time.

 

Or you check the Clearances on all Valves, take those out which need replacement, count out the interchangeable and order the missing Remainders. Might take Week until you can finish the Job, though.

[hig4s]

Or you check the Clearances on all Valves, take those out which need replacement, count out the interchangeable and order the missing Remainders. Might take Week until you can finish the Job, though.

 

That is how I did it on my last bike, but it had shim under bucket (SUB) and I had to remove the cam, so I just waited until I got the new shims to put it back togeather..

 

Back on my old Seca's first valve adjustment, after I measured and knew which needed to be replaced, I pulled every shim, wrote down its size and where is was, then put the bike back together and rode it until the new shims arrived. After that, because I had written down what size was in every spot, I could just pop the valve cover, measure and and know what size to order. funny thing was, I waited until well past the normal time for that first valve check on the Seca and most of them needed to be adjusted, at the same time I added an oil cooler. After that, through many miles and several checks, it never needed an adjustment again. But I still think it was a good idea.

[Marcarl]

For me,,,,,,,,I just did the measuring, took the now non-needed shims to the dealer, told him which ones I needed, and gave him the the ones I didn't. Cost me a whole bag of Pepperettes.

[jhw47]

I checked mine at 75,000 miles and found one exhaust loose and 3 intakes a bit too tight. At 25,000 & 50,000 they were in spec. It doesn't take long to check them if they are in spec. Takes a bit longer if they are not.

I borrowed a shim kit with the tools from BuddyRich on this site. Don't know if he is still loaning it or not.

I would suggest you check them just for peace of mind. Maintenence is cheep, repairs are expensive.

[V7Goose]

I will never advise someone to go beyond the recommended maintenance intervals from the manufacturer, but the fact is, most engines will go well beyond the recommended interval for a valve adjustment before it has a problem - here is why:

 

The recommended intervals are based on AVERAGES, and that average is not for when an engine breaks (or burns a valve), but for when an engine shows the need for an adjustment BEFORE it burns a valve. Therefore, if half the engines show at least one valve needing adjustment at the recommended interval, the other half will have all the valves in spec. This is why so many people can say they had their valves checked and all were good. That does NOT imply you are safe to ignore it. Here is an example, using all completely made-up numbers just for the sake of an example -

 

The manufacturer knows, based on their own longevity testing, that a particular engine usually does not suffer any valve damage until at least 50,000 miles, and those that are damaged by 50,000 miles usually begin to show an out of spec measurement by 30,000, so that is the recommended check interval. If they are all checked at 30,000 miles and adjusted if needed, only a very small number will ever suffer damage from misadjusted valves. But if the engines are not checked until 50,000 miles, quite a few more will be out of spec, and some will be damaged. The odds may still be in your favor that your particular engine will just be out of spec by that time, but you still have an increased risk of damage if you choose to gamble on it.

 

I know that the Venture uses a different tool for adjusting the valve shims than the majority of other modern Yamaha engines. Some comments above say it is the same as certain older Yamaha engines, but I personally have no knowledge of that. I think there is a valve shim kit and tool that has been making the rounds among members here for no cost - if you can use the shims there, great, else buy what you need and contribute any shims you remove to the kit when you pass it on. I have not used this, so I am just going from memory - a simple search of the forums should turn up more info on it.

 

Bottom line for me is that it is always best to follow the suggested maintenance interval.

Goose

[Squeeze]

... and most of them needed to be adjusted, at the same time I added an oil cooler. After that, through many miles and several checks, it never needed an adjustment again. But I still think it was a good idea.

 

 

This has nothing to do with the added Oil Cooler. It's Kind of normal, you need to check /set the Clearances mainly because the Valves hammers itself into the Valve Seat, thereby hardening the Contact Surface. Once this done, there no additional Damage to the Valve/Seat Combination until you let the Clearance run out of Specs and the Seat starts to built up Oil Cole and the Valve is starting to get weak, because of Overheating.

 

The only real Problem here is, and I'm absolutely with Goose here, one won't hear anything wrong in the Valve train as the Clearance will get tighter and tighter over Time. No ticking sound, nothing ...

[stevel]

Any one know of a good thread to view for valve adjustment help for 97 RSTD?

[wizard]

Stevel, I read on another website that checking your compression is a good indication of your valve clearances, a way to save pulling the covers off of your motor. He said that if the compression was within spec., no adjustment is necessary. It was stated that if the valves were in spec. and the compression was off, it might be a carbon build up on the rings that could be removed by a yamaha product added to the gas, I would suspect something like the Seafoam everyone here recommends. I believe that everyone on this website understands the value of valve adjustments, but I have never seen a write up of the procedure on this site. I just read your post and saw that nobody answered your question. I hope this helps.

[RandyR]

Stevel, I read on another website that checking your compression is a good indication of your valve clearances, a way to save pulling the covers off of your motor. He said that if the compression was within spec., no adjustment is necessary.

 

Compression is not going to tell the whole story.

 

If the clearance is too great then you will have good compression (probably).

 

 

But the timing of the opening and closing of the valves will be out of design spec. For instance: the valves won't be opening soon enough, and won't stay open long enough for the proper fuel/air intake, nor for complete exhausting of the burned gases.

[MiCarl]

Confucius Say:

 

"Time from too tight valve lowering compression to valve or seat damaged is shorter than grasshopper life."

 

In other words, when a tight valve shows itself as low compression you are probably already royally screwed.