Wrecked my 1993 Royale tonight - have some questions?

[syscrusher]

A young kid working as a Jimmy John's driver was at the curb and really not moving as I traveled 3/4 block at 25mph. Just as I reached him he hit his left turn signal and then turned in front of me, headed to a driveway to turn around, as I was driving by. He started lying about things and if it goes to court he'll probably claim I was illegally passing him on a residential street by then. Little by little he's changed his story so far. My view, he negligently failed to check his side view to ascertain that it was safe to pull into lane much less to cross traffic to driveway on opposite side of street. I had the police come out but officer said he is supposed to write a ticket if he can but he didn't see it and didn't feel able to write a ticket. He didn't even record our respective views on the accident at the time. So much for professional witness. He might still be useful if there is a court appearance, but it would be nice if it didn't come to that I suppose. It seems that police here don't write tickets to protect motorcyclists from disregard of car drivers.

 

The kid's dad says he wants to possibly try to save the kid's insurance by paying me on the side for damages. I may have bent forks, anti-dive busted off, bits of signal plastic and other stuff all about. I haven't had a good daylight look at it yet but it rolled all the way over onto the left side cowling so I expect bad things. I had removed side plastics but also engine guards while I'm working on some stuff.

 

1. Should I have this painful, firm, tuna can sized lump on my thigh checked out?

2. Should I try to deal with this guy or just go to my agent? Got Liability only.

3. Please give me a ballpark estimate of costs if you're able, sorry the description is so vague but I need orders of magnitude.

4. I have the blue color for 1993, what other years had this same color and what is it called?

5. What am I not even thinking of that I should be concerned over?

 

The car insulated the young kid from the accident while I took it on physically with my motorcycle and myself.

 

[cowpuc]

Well,, having raised kids and knowing how things happen out on the roadways,, I think I am pretty safe in thinking what you just described was truly an accident (meaning the kid was not out to get you - he was probably just doing his job looking for the place to drop off a pizza - NO EXCUSE FOR DRIVING POORLY THOUGH!!).

That said, I am one to keep the courts out of stuff if possible...

Blue Book shows your scoot at 2800 in perfect shape, I would look the bike over - if you hit hard enough to bend forks and have glass damage, assume it totaled (if the frame is tweeked at the triple tree THAT alone will total it from an insurance standpoint). If it were me and I had a really really good idea that I was basically ok physically and that the boy was also ok, I would show the father the book value and tell him that it would take 2 grand to buy you out... You can always fix the scoot yourself or sell the it outright on here and make up the difference..

You might want to record the conversation with the father about it all, him offering to settle out of court is probably a pretty indication that he and his son know that it really was the boys fault and may be considered admission of quilt if it ever did end up in court..

About the injury,, I too have had some VERY nasty thumps with lumps and had em heal up just fine, I also have had MAJOR back injury stuff that I didnt even realize was there when it happened.. I did a few days later though.. Tuff call on that one!!

[Venture n Dixie]

 

1. Should I have this painful, firm, tuna can sized lump on my thigh checked out?

I say yes even if it costs you. My wife was rear ended 15 years ago. Thought her neck was "just sore" been in pain since and getting worse. Don't know if a doc could have done anything but a little compensation could have helped in PT and who knows what else lies ahead.

2. Should I try to deal with this guy or just go to my agent? Got Liability only.

I'd ask your agent how to handle it. Sounds like you risk getting jerked around without good representation. Especially since the police were so lazy. (IMO)

5. What am I not even thinking of that I should be concerned over?

When my daughter wanted to deliver pizza our agent said it was a violation of our policy and they'd cancel if she did and not be responsible for any damages. There are special policies for delivery drivers. Some stores use them some don't. Since dad is worried, sounds like he falls in the uncovered catagory to me.

 

Do get the bump checked out and documented.

[cowpuc]

Oh, by the way Sys,, I am very sorry to read about this whole incident - while it is common thought that any accident that we are able to walk away from is a good one - I personally cant think of any accident that I call exactly good!! I am glad to hear that you and the boy are both ok though and wish you nothing but the best in getting the whole thing resolved!!

[Prairiehammer]

 

 

4. I have the blue color for 1993, what other years had this same color and what is it called?

 

The color is Star Blue Metallic (primary) and Enticer Blue Metallic (secondary). Only 1992 and 1993 Ventures had this color. In fact, ALL 1992 and 1993 US Ventures were this color.

[Flyinfool]

Sorry to hear that this happened but glad that you are still walking and talking.

 

Don't forget that the blue book value does not include any accessories that have been added.

 

You may want to find some comparable bikes and use their asking prices as the value, because that is really what it is going to cost you to replace yours. Don't forget to add sales tax and any other costs associated with the replacement. This should not cost you anything.

 

As far as calling your insurance agent, since you only have liability there is not much your insurance can do other than put down on your insurance record that you were involved in an incident.

 

But by all means document all communications with the kid and/or his dad. Either get it in writing or record it if verbal. I learned the hard way that when it come time to actually write the check, the agreement can change dramatically.

 

As soon as it is available get a copy of the police report to see exactly what the official description of the accident is. Contact the officer to fix any glaring errors.

[BlueSky]

Most kids always have excuses for their failures. Kinda reminds me of our prez.

 

I agree that you should not contact your agent. He won't help, but will make a note of it that will be held against you.

 

If you can't document conversations any other way, write down everything that was said with dates and keep a file.

[Shamue]

Feel bad for your incident. My thought is to contact your insurance company and let them sort it out with the other driver's insurance. The Father can always pay for the repair to save his son position. Sounds like you were in the right and the kid was doing what he always does, goes and then looks. Delivery driver around here do the same when parked at the curb always in a hurry.

Especially since you may have a injury that may need attention in the future.

Hope it all works out and your heal quickly.

[Sailor]

Don't know about there but here I believe it is illegal to turn left over a solid line. Check the road. Pictures are gold. If possible get pictures of any damage to the side of his car. This would show he was turning at the time. Lack of heavy damage to the car would show you were not speeding. Take pictures of the road at the site. There may be debris showing the exact spot and the absence of skid marks also show you were not speeding and had no warning or time to hit the brakes.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Sailor

[Semi-retired]

A young kid ......was at the curb and really not moving as I traveled 3/4 block at 25mph. Just as I reached him he hit his left turn signal and then turned in front of me,.......as I was driving by.

if it goes to court he'll probably claim I was illegally passing him on a residential street by then.

My view, he negligently failed to check his side view to ascertain that it was safe to pull into lane much less to cross traffic to driveway on opposite side of street.

I had the police come out but officer said he is supposed to write a ticket if he can but he didn't see it and didn't feel able to write a ticket.

He didn't even record our respective views on the accident at the time. So much for professional witness.

 

The kid's dad says he wants to possibly try to save the kid's insurance by paying me on the side for damages. \

 

1. Should I have this painful, firm, tuna can sized lump on my thigh checked out?

2. Should I try to deal with this guy or just go to my agent? Got Liability only.

3. Please give me a ballpark estimate of costs if you're able, sorry the description is so vague but I need orders of magnitude.

4. I have the blue color for 1993, what other years had this same color and what is it called?

5. What am I not even thinking of that I should be concerned over?

 

Hey, buddy....

Were you drunk at the time?

 

Unless you were.....there's no way this kid should not have been charged.

 

Call me immediately at 905-938-3553.......Your leg and your financial future could depend on this.

 

Do you have an incident # or police report for a motor vehicle collision?

 

Go to the hospital NOW and have your leg checked out........and call and have police respond again at hospital.

 

Did you identify that you have a personal injury at the scene? Doesn't matter.......do it now......at the hospital.

 

If you don't want to spend the money calling me.........send me your ph number in a private message and I'll call you and give you blow by blow instructions on what to do.

 

Michael

[syscrusher]

Thanks for all of the responses, I really appreciate it!

 

I took a look at it and I can't tell if the forks are bent or not. The radiator may be leaking. The cowling seems to be tougher than I thought, it's got a scuffed edge that's barely noticeable. I had the rotor covers with the lights on them and the light is gone from the right side. The top of the anti-dive valve was ripped off of the right fork. It's spewing oil and sucking air. There was a hole in the door of the car I'm assuming was made by the lower part of the anti-dive. There's tire marks on the front of the right side exhaust pipes from the front wheel. The front fender was broken from it's mounts so I tore it off so I could ride it the dozen or so blocks home. It pulled right badly when doing that. Sitting in the garage on the kickstand it's leaning far to the left like the forks elongated or something else is bent. Maybe the forks are pushed rearward which would change the rake angle.

 

Hey Cowpuc, you mentioned whether the frame could be bent at the neck, how easy is it to do that?

In Nebraska if damages total over $1000 a report must be filed with State Patrol so if I settle with them it kind of needs to be below that or the kid's insurance will go up anyway.

[Semi-retired]

Sorry to hear that this happened but glad that you are still walking and talking.

 

Don't forget that the blue book value does not include any accessories that have been added.

 

You may want to find some comparable bikes and use their asking prices as the value, because that is really what it is going to cost you to replace yours. Don't forget to add sales tax and any other costs associated with the replacement. This should not cost you anything.

 

As far as calling your insurance agent, since you only have liability there is not much your insurance can do other than put down on your insurance record that you were involved in an incident.

 

But by all means document all communications with the kid and/or his dad. Either get it in writing or record it if verbal. I learned the hard way that when it come time to actually write the check, the agreement can change dramatically.

 

As soon as it is available get a copy of the police report to see exactly what the official description of the accident is. Contact the officer to fix any glaring errors.

 

Not entirely correct.........there's LOTS your ins agent can do (IF he wants to keep you as a customer).....including contacting the police to ask why the other driver wasn't charged in such a blatant case of unsafe driving......AND chasing down the offending driver like a dog in the street to get HIS insurance information and filing a claim against his insurer.

 

I'm curious why "we" aren't proceeding full tilt against this kid.........unless WE were under the influence, or some other "mitigating" factor?!?!

[Semi-retired]

Thanks for all of the responses, I really appreciate it!

 

Hey Cowpuc, you mentioned whether the frame could be bent at the neck, how easy is it to do that?

In Nebraska if damages total over $1000 a report must be filed with State Patrol so if I settle with them it kind of needs to be below that or the kid's insurance will go up anyway.

This kid isn't YOUR nephew, is he? (Just wondering why you're being so nice to him at YOUR expense.)

 

I could understand that he might be the COPPER'S nephew.....what with getting off Scott-free and all!

[syscrusher]

 

I'm curious why "we" aren't proceeding full tilt against this kid.........unless WE were under the influence, or some other "mitigating" factor?!?!

 

Michael,

 

I hadn't had a drink or anything else. I'll give you a call in about half an hour. I had told the kid's dad that he could contact me until then if he wanted to make me an offer to pay and I want to see if that's the way it goes. I do wonder if the laws in Canada would be substantially different, but I am interested in what you have to say.

 

The only mitigating factor is that I fear the kid's dad is going to try whatever it takes to weasel out of the responsibility for this. I've been trying my agent this morning but calls not answered. I can generally discuss the big picture with him without fear of incrimination until I tell him to file a formal claim.

[Chaharly]

Really sorry about your accident! I see you're from nebraska too, its been a rough year for us Nebraskans wreck wise! Honestly, one thing that noone's said so far is pictures. I would certainly take ALOT of pictures of the bike, his car, and you. I understand why you guys wouldn't want to get the insurance involved, but it may just come down to it. So documentations going to be good.

 

About the bump, the only thing I can say is you SHOULD go to the hospital... I turned down the ambulance ride after my wreck and by the time we had gotten to Norfolk, 40 miles away and about an hour and a half later, I was sort of regretting not taking the ambulance. I had a huge welt on my leg as well and they told me I may have broken a shin. The worst thing I can see coming from your leg is what happened to my elbow. I didnt break but I had a hematoma on it about the size of the softball which REALLY REALLY hurt! So thats kind of up to you.

 

Sad thing is everyone makes mistakes, but insurance is there FOR THE MISTAKES. If the dad would offer me 2k for the bike, but doesnt want to get insurance involved, make sure you're not going to need a two thousand dollar cast on your leg. If you're healthy enough, I'd certainly take the 2k.

 

Like i said though, sorry about your wreck! Thats one of those that is TOTALLY unavoidable by you and really just bad luck! I hope to see you back on the road with a big grin on your face soon!

[syscrusher]

The color is Star Blue Metallic (primary) and Enticer Blue Metallic (secondary). Only 1992 and 1993 Ventures had this color. In fact, ALL 1992 and 1993 US Ventures were this color.

 

Do you know what the blue colors on an '89 were? They look similar anyway.

[Prairiehammer]

Do you know what the blue colors on an '89 were? They look similar anyway.

 

They appear similar, but are different colors. The following shows what years and markets enjoyed the Dull Blue Cocktail (primary) and Dark Greyish Blue Metallic 1 (secondary):

 

1989 US ROYALE DULL BLUE COCKTAIL/DARK GREYISH BLUE MET.#1

1989 EUROPE DULL BLUE COCKTAIL/DARK GREYISH BLUE MET.#1

1990 US ROYALE DULL BLUE COCKTAIL/DARK GREYISH BLUE MET.#1

1990 EUROPE DULL BLUE COCKTAIL/DARK GREYISH BLUE MET.#1

1991 CANADA DULL BLUE COCKTAIL/DARK GREYISH BLUE MET.#1

[cowpuc]

Thanks for all of the responses, I really appreciate it!

 

I took a look at it and I can't tell if the forks are bent or not. The radiator may be leaking. The cowling seems to be tougher than I thought, it's got a scuffed edge that's barely noticeable. I had the rotor covers with the lights on them and the light is gone from the right side. The top of the anti-dive valve was ripped off of the right fork. It's spewing oil and sucking air. There was a hole in the door of the car I'm assuming was made by the lower part of the anti-dive. There's tire marks on the front of the right side exhaust pipes from the front wheel. The front fender was broken from it's mounts so I tore it off so I could ride it the dozen or so blocks home. It pulled right badly when doing that. Sitting in the garage on the kickstand it's leaning far to the left like the forks elongated or something else is bent. Maybe the forks are pushed rearward which would change the rake angle.

 

Hey Cowpuc, you mentioned whether the frame could be bent at the neck, how easy is it to do that?

In Nebraska if damages total over $1000 a report must be filed with State Patrol so if I settle with them it kind of needs to be below that or the kid's insurance will go up anyway.

 

Hey Sys, in sharing my opinion here, please keep in mind that I am farrrrr from any form of an expert on any of this stuff and that, including my articulation of thought, this opinion just comes from a number of years from playing with both dirt and street bikes (only dirt bikes cause I may use some words that I used in setting up my MX bikes in years past)..

 

Its quite possible that your bike is setting higher/leaning left more because of fork stiction.. Simply the inability of the fork upper tube to travel thru the bushings in the lower legs because of being bent or twisted. You could straddle the bike, make sure there is no air in the forks, push the front wheel against a wall and press up and down on the bars and feel how easily the forks slide. If you feel a stickyness in the movement - good chance the tubes are having a hard time passing thru the bushings. Forks tubes can also move in the triple tree, even to the point the the tree itself can get out of alignment - usually you can see this if ride the bike and look carefully at see if the handlebars are perpendicular with the front wheel when going straight down the road. If their not, it doesnt mean the forks are bent, it could just be a matter of loosening the tree clamps, putting pressure on the front wheel (cant tell you how many times I have loosened clamps and torqued a front end against a tree until the bars were straight) and retighten..

Unfortunately, because of the weight involved with these streetbikes, it really doesnt take much of a hit to tweek a neck and ruin a frame. Again, remember - this is OPINION, I think the insurance industry standards have gotten to the point where even a mark on the frame of bike after an accident is enough to consider the bike a total. I only say that because I have seen MANY really really nice BIG DOLLAR Harley's being sold at auction with "salvage" titles and nothing more than a small indentation in the frame where the crash bar was once connected.. Most frame damage is detected in this way, by visual exam (looking for stress cracks in paint at weld joints and the like). Personally, if I am looking at a questionable bike, I like to have a buddy ride the bike, I lay down on a nice flat paved area (school parking lots work great for this) and have my buddy ride toward me on the scoot in question. Look down the axis of the wheels coming at me and see how the bike is tracking.. It is amazing how easy it is to see a tweeked neck in wheel alignment! Believe it or not, I have seen these big heavy bikes that have - under 20 miles an hour - been lost in a corner, wadded up in a field (didnt hit a car), twisted the front end in a high side event with enough force that the tweeked neck moved the alignment out over an INCH!! I have a hunch that it all depends on the dynamics of the crash but, yea,, it dont take much to tweek a neck, IMHO..

 

Now the next question that for some reason I sense someone out there squinting their eyes and wanting to ask.. So Puc,, if you KNEW the neck was tweeked,, would you ride it anyway? If I KNEW the neck was tweeked, I would look closely at the frame and make sure that I was satisfied that the front end wasnt going to fall off LOL, no "kinks" in frame tubes or welds that needed rewelding.. If it was just a tweek - you betcha!! A dog tracking bike would go well with the weeds that normally hang under my scoots, the pieced together exhaust collector and the mud covered stickers,, BUT THATS JUST ME!!

[turtle]

I think you want to call your agent and report it to him in case you have medical issues down the line. And since they don't want to turn it in to there company if something goes south you would be on the hook. Sorry it happened but don't make 2 mistakes for trying to beanice guy

[syscrusher]

Well I got a message from my insurance people saying that they had opened a claim and that he's saying I was passing him in the left lane when he was making his left turn from the right lane proper. I hate liars, especially when their lies cause me trouble. My agent says that they have to back me up if it goes to court but this is looking difficult now. I'm going to go pick up the police report and see what he wrote........

[pbjman]

That stinks! Whether they are lying or simply mistaken, I hope the truth comes out in your favor!

[Semi-retired]

Well I got a message from my insurance people saying that they had opened a claim and that he's saying I was passing him in the left lane when he was making his left turn from the right lane proper. I hate liars, especially when their lies cause me trouble. My agent says that they have to back me up if it goes to court but this is looking difficult now. I'm going to go pick up the police report and see what he wrote........

 

Fight fire WITH fire, Michael. If that little weasel of a kid starts bull****ting about what lane you were in.....request that the coppers go back out to the scene (with whoever else, presumably the kid, wants to tag along) and have the cop reconstruct the scene and the movement of vehicles (my Ontario copper buddy specializes in this and developed a little hand-held device to simulate vehicle movement in crash scenarios.....but your situation should be a simple "drawing on paper" of what happened.)

 

EVEN IF you DID move somewhat into the other lane.........EVEN IF.....(and he'll never prove that)......you would have done it trying to AVOID HIM......because he was making an unsignalled turn.....(he didn't signal, right....he has NO PROOF of that.....your word against HIS). Even if he DID signal, he didn't check to make sure the way was clear.......OBVIOUSLY, or you wouldn't have been hit.

 

This kid is a lying little ****....and it's gonna come back on him!!

 

Like I said on the phone....and in my PM.....don't take any crap from any of these guys. Just calmly say "My attorney will be in touch."........and then.........HAVE YOUR ATTORNEY GET IN TOUCH!!

[Flyinfool]

Since they are lying already, it is obvious they intend to screw you. Take all steps to protect yourself.

 

If dad comes back and asks why you are escalating, just let him know is is because kid is lying and you will not take his BS.

[cowpuc]

Yep,, what a bummer,, people teaching their children not to accept responsibility when they make a mistake... Sounds crazy but I think this is one of the very basic things that is causing so much trouble for all of us in the world today...

Mans gotta do what a mans gotta do Sys!!!!

[syscrusher]

I was thinking that it could work in my favor that he's lied now. I may challenge him to polygraph but I also think it speaks for itself. Experienced motorcycle riders DON'T pass cars on left that have their left turn signals on if the car is moving. I tried that once when I was sixteen but not again. No, I passed him because I thought he was trying to merge into the lane and would certainly wait till things were clear, looking in the mirrors to make sure. He was at the curb, not in the lane. I did see him signal and said so but I couldn't have stopped by then anyway. He gunned it when he went into his turn, the officer asked him if he was turning into the driveway across the street and he said he was but I think he was trying to do a quick U-turn. I couldn't get the official report, it wasn't ready yet. Will try again tomorrow and going to doctor to look at my big bruise and discuss some other aches and pains. I knocked on one of the neighbors door who could have seen it all but was told no one did.

 

Thanks folks, I'll update if anything happens here. I've got other motorcycles I can ride so that's good but I was really trying to get ready for some touring on the Venture and now I'm further from it. I'll also have to wait to see what the terms end up being, I don't want to put in more time on a motorcycle that gets totaled and the sell-back price too high, etc. This sucks.