Young children as passengers

[Brenner]

I inadvertently posted in the wrong forum I wanted at first but here it is corrected.

 

 

I am not a seasoned rider as of yet but am learning quickly and those I ride with tell me that it looks as if I have been riding for years. I am constantly trying different options on my rides and different setups. This year I plan on learning how to tow with a motorcycle. I do not have a lot of experience with passengers and have only had my wife on the back of a bike with me. My next few weeks are for me to get to know my venture project bike and to learn it well. Once comfortable I will take my wife and again learn how the bike is with a rear passenger. Now comes a question to those who have had experience with your children as a rear passenger. I have a god child who has no experience on anything motorized aside from some time on my atv with me last year. Her parents are very inactive and do not spend time with her and it shows as I find she can easily be distracted and it shows she is not observant enough to recognize the dangers on a motorized vehicle. Her parents do not let her play outside or explore nor ride her bike as they would rather put in a dvd for her and do their own thing. I am not saying they are bad I am saying that the have no ambition to let her learn new things and in my opinion "grow". I have no children myself and have spent my time with my nieces and nephews and learned that the things we have done and experienced is something they have always remembered even better than I can. So what I am getting to is that I would like to try to teach her to ride with me and introduce her to things her parents never will. She is 7, very tall for her age, and has relatively no experience aside from the time I have taken with her whether riding a bicycle or atv. If I am outside she usually finds her way to come see what I am doing and usually it takes some time for her parents to notice her absence. I own a couple of houses in a row in the city and her parents are my tenants and live next door so it easy for her to find me. I really am not embellishing this and want to involve her with my riding hobby as I have in the past with my nieces and nephews. My fear is that bikes do not have a seat belt and have been considering coming up with something to keep her in the seat just in case she tries to move out while I am riding. She learned quickly on the atv and was comfortable but I had her in front of me in case I had to control her but the rear of a bike is a new thing for me. I just want safety until I can trust her and know how she will act. Any recommendations?

[Du-Rron]

I would say -no- to anything keeping her in the seat. Make sure you have plenty of medical insurance. Start with short trips of a couple of miles or so and see how it progresses from there. Can she ride a bicycle on her own? That will help her understand.

 

I was not a passenger at age 7, but I was riding on a Honda Trail 90 by myself when I was 9.

[oldgoat]

Riderz Ragz Inc, Makers of the BackRider Belt child riding belt harness

 

child safety belt goes around you and the child. check it out?

[slowrollwv]

I have had my granddaughter on my bike when she was seven. I like others said did short trips until I was sure she could ride and be safe. I had her to set close to me with her arms around my waste so I knew she was not moving around. Now she rides with me every chance she gets.

[Bert2006]

Please make sure that you have her parents permission to take her riding. Otherwise you are opening yourself up for a shxxxload of trouble.

[SilvrT]

Make sure you have plenty of medical insurance.

 

Don't know how medical insurance in your country works but up here it only covers "you", not someone else. What is needed is liability insurance coz if in an accident and she gets hurt, that is what will protect you (and her).

 

We have a law up here that states a child cannot be a passenger on a motorcycle if BOTH feet CANNOT rest flat on the footrests. Additionally, footrests are not to be altered from factory positioning to accommodate.

[Mike G in SC]

Oh for the old days (70's). At 3-4 my son would ride on the tank of my 400 Kaw. I would strap a military belt around him and hook him to my belt and clamp his feet with my legs and go ride. Yes, we both wore helmets.

And yep, rode him around town with folks pointing and waving.

 

That was then. Now,,, well good advise above. A lot of liability is in play. I would even have a signed note from her folks and proper insurance.

 

But, not trying to be critical, from what you have said, you need more time with your wife on the back to get 100% confident with a full sized (nothing personal Ma'am) rider.

You do not want to have an accident with a child and be able to blame your own skills.

[Oldodge]

My daughter rode short trips with me at that age. My concern here is "I just want safety until I can trust her and know how she will act. " If I could not 100% trust that she do what she is instructed I think she is not ready for this yet. I commend you for taking an active interest in the child, but I would suggest other activities until you feel confident that she is ready.

[Marcarl]

You are opening a big box of trouble,,, but I can understand where you are coming from and going. I have a daughter, married, 5 kids. She has ridden with me once and enjoyed it, her husband rides, all her kids now ride moto-cross. At one point I was going to take her oldest son to MD in Ohio, an all day ride, but she said, no-way, it's too far. I did not ride any of her kids after that. The relationship I have with my family is more important than a ride on a bike. If something would have happened on that ride, that is something that would always be between us, even if there had been no complications. So be careful how you handle your relationships. Her parents don't seem to be very active at this point, but,,,, wait until something happens to her that can be blamed on somebody else, anybody else,,,, then you'll see activity that has never been seen before. I can understand what you are trying to do for her, and blessings in your endeavor.

Further: her feet must reach the boards flat footed, she must learn how to mount and dis-mount properly without fail, she must be able to follow instructions as to what to do and what not to do and do it at the right times, or you two, both of you, will end up in the soup. Taking a curve and having her lean the wrong way is enough to get you out of your proposed track and end up in a totally different location then you might have first intended, and if that is in the opposite lane, then that is an issue.

While you are in motion, 30km or faster, you can tell her she can move and wave and do almost anything (except jump off), but when in slow speed or stopped she needs to be a 'bag of wheat', no motion, no waving, no shifting, AND no getting off until she's ok'ed it with you. In corners she is also to be a 'bag of wheat' and sit where and how she was put, no leaning off one side or the other, just to stay with the axis of the bike.

Make sure she is all leathered up, properly fitting helmet, jacket, lowers, boots, gloves. Not just some cheapos, but descent stuff, it'll not only protect her, but you as well, incase of a miss-hap.

Get used to riding 2-up before you take her, experience on your part will help tremendously. By this I mean, at least a couple of day-long rides with a full sized passenger.

You will be giving her a life value that will stay with her for a long time, possible memories that will help build her character and self esteem, but it needs to be done well,,,, one little screw up and you'll wish that you had chosen a different path.

[bongobobny]

IMHO wait until the girl expresses interest herself in going for a ride...

[Sailor]

Way back when I had a Yamaha 400 and a girlfriend with two young daughters. They wanted to ride on the bike. I made it a rule that as soon as their feet could reach the foot pegs I would take them. Every couple of days they would climb on the bike to check. Finally they reached and by then they were used to being on it.

I would never attach anyone to the bike. In an accident you want to part ways with the bike not be dragged along.

[Brenner]

Thanks all. Many points have been brought up that I have considered. I do have consent of both the parents as honestly as sad as it is they prefer to not have to watch her. She has been asking to go for a ride and is tall for her age but I have been telling her only when she is bigger. Thank you about the foot peg reach as it was something I have not considered fully yet and will definitely look into. I am her god parent and spend more time with her with new experiences than her parents do. I put her on her first bicycle, and the first to put her in a pool. Will they turn on me in an event? Yup you never know. taking time to learn to ride and handle the bike with my wife first? Well yes as mentioned in my original post is absolutely necessary as I will not attempt this until I am comfortable that I can hold the bike with a passenger who does not work with me. I am not one just to throw a child into something like this and expect it to be okay and as mentioned earlier I have gone through this with 5 other children over the last 20 years on snowmobiles, atv's, and mini bikes. Each time I let them get comfortable on the machine not running then start off with baby steps as I do recognize together we need to walk before we run. I am a little more concerned with the street bike only due to my limited riding experience. I have taken as many steps as I can think of including proper fitting gear and will be educating her to the best of my ability about the does and don'ts I expect of her. The link shown for the child harness is something I have not seen before and it is something I will research further. I also understand the concern of harnessing a child to the bike in case of an accident and will not attempt it. With the input I have received here I believe I might test her by allowing her to ride behind me on my atv in a field to see if she will listen and hold on to me. With this test I might be able to see if I can trust her in a lower speed scenario. If she can adapt and listens well after a few successful rides later in the summer I might be more confident in taking her on my bike. I am not foolish and expect to take her for a long ride the first few rides as I will slowly take longer and longer rides to see how she reacts to the trips. I am happy to be able to bounce ideas off the members of this forum when I am unsure or inexperienced in something and find it a great resource. I take all recommendations in a serious manner and think them through thoroughly. I believe I will be successful in the end but do not know when we both will be ready to take a trip.

[stickhandle2]

All great advice above, remember too that as great a bike as the Ventures are they are big and heavy, get used to riding the venture on your own and then get used to and confident with an adult passenger.

[Marcarl]

I guess the word that concerns the most is 'in-experience'. You used it, we didn't, so it's how you feel. May I suggest that you first need to feel more at home solo, before you attempt to grow beyond that?

[Flyinfool]

Spend a LOT of time in a parking lot practicing slow speed maneuvering where you are making turns at full lock on the steering and not putting your feet down. On most normal side streets you should be comfortable making U turns with out even a thought of putting your feet down. This is all before even your wife gets on the back. Then do it all again with the wife.

 

Before your first ride with a passenger, go to your local home improvement store and buy 2 big bags of play-box sand and strap that to the back seat. It will get you used to the extra top heavy feel, and sand don't wiggle, and if you do go down sand is cheap.

 

Cover the crash bars with some old garden hose and have the wife wiggle around while stopped. You should also know how to pick the bike up if / when it does fall. Be sure to let us know so we can explain the dropped bike donation.

 

Get of copy of the DVD "Ride Like a Pro", watch it, do it, watch it again. Repeat.

 

Even better would be to take an advanced rider course.

 

I had a situation where while at an event another parent asked if I would take their child on my bike since I was alone, and they had more kids than bike seats. These children were all VERY experienced bike passengers and loved to ride. I had to decline since it had been about 30 years since I had a passenger with me, and we would be riding roads unfamiliar to me and more technical than what I am used to.

[Nemo]

I would like to suggest a set of arm rests for the bike.

[bill in mn]

Use to bring my daughters for short rides all the time . one ride I felt her helmet bounce of me , she was falling asleep with the vibration I guess. Bought a sissy bar after that. And I could pin her against it and she never flew off the back.

[Brenner]

Thank you all for the concern and advice. My comment on my inexperience is that of not having a passenger on a bigger bike like my venture. I have had some experience with my smaller bike with having my wife on the back on a few trips of 2 hours or more so I am not totally blind going into this. I would just rather be over prepared and worried for no reason rather than ignore it and take a chance and someone get hurt. I noted today that my god daughter was playing on her bike so went out and I had my her climb on my venture today to see how well she will fit on it and was pleased to note that she can reach the foot rests comfortably and she fits the seat where she can use the backrest properly. After that I took a roughly 20 block walk with her while she rode her bicycle beside me. Mom and dad did their own thing as always and we went on our way. We are working on where to look on the roads when crossing the street and where to stop and wait for cars so we do not get hurt even on a bicycle. She is listening well and I have spoken to her parents about my need to trust her and that anything can happen when the time comes. I honestly can say that I will not attempt this until I feel comfortable with my abilities of this large bike. The recommendation of the "Ride like a Pro " are those that I have sought out earlier as they sell the videos on ebay. I am lucky enough to have found out that my neighbour who rides a goldwing is apparently part of a group or chapter of a goldwing club and he tells me he is an instructor on teaching skills of slow maneuvering. Last year I asked for some advice to try to build my skill set but was not able to set a date to try to learn. This year he has been watching my projects progress and has made a few more suggestions that I will attempt to practice and learn. I have been in attendance at a few Harley "Test our Metal" events and participated in the "How to lift a dropped bike" tutorial. I do not think there would be any major difference between manufacturers. All in all I am not irresponsible as some might think and I listen to all recommendations even those that I already have considered. I will build my skill set as I truly believe you never stop learning and often those who think otherwise are those who put themselves and others at risk.

[Ride2much]

Your ability and confidence,will shift to your passenger,they will sense it,feel it and react to it. In essence they will do what they feel you do,from correctly leaning to incorrectly tensing up at the wrong time. First you need to become one with the bike, then take on a passenger and teach them, then you two have to become one with each other. I started taking my daughters for rides on my dirt bike at an early age. I took them on my road bike when they turned eight years old, starting with short rides and then a daddy -daughter camping bike weekend every summer from then on. You should have seen the look on their college room mate faces when I would pick them up..Now we all ride together,along with two son-in-laws. These are times that make life everything! Go for it, do it right and be safe. R2m

 

Edited March 29, 2015 by Ride2much

[Flyinfool]

I do not think that anyone was trying to down play any knolage or experiace you may have. When in doubt, to much detail is far better than assuming something.

[PBJ]

having ridden with my own children I can only tell you what we did. But first thing to remember is they were our children. This young girls as a god child and the child or a tenant feels already like shakey ground. but more concerning is your lack of experience with road bikes and your getting into a rather large bike like the venture. Thinking about riding with this child at this point should be waaaaay down your list. You will have a big learning curve with the bike alone its weight and how you alone will handle it. Ride alone. Ride with your wife. Give yourself at least a season of riding with the venture. As others have said look into what your insurance says about non family member passengers. Also know your riding area. I can see riding up and down your street with the child. Maybe a round the block but any farther might not be fare to you as a new road rider on a 800lb. touring bike. For me the answer to riding with my children was a sidecar. Which has its own set of rules and dangers. More things to learn but rewarding if learned properly. Others here have said everything else I've thought of too. If it was me I'd wait until I know my bike better.

[Venturous]

My first advise is be sure you have complete confidence in your riding skills before you take on precious cargo. You will know when you feel this confidence. I rode with my two sons starting when they were about 5 years old on my '02. Hard to believe they are now 17 and 18 years old already. These rides are some of our fondest memories together. I would take them tent camping along Skyline Drive and they both attended Rolling Thunder several times.

 

I did add two accessories specifically because of riding with them. On one long ride, as we neared home, I came to a stop sign. As I slowed, I felt the entire weight of my oldest son fall against me. He fell completely asleep. I realized I needed to do something to keep him from rolling out of the seat. A seat belt was out of the question for me. I had crashed on that '02 and knew that getting thrown clear of the bike was a good thing.

 

What I did first was add a set of armrests made by Tripmasters. These are the same design that Slowrollwv later replicated and sold. I tightened them down so they would only swing out with great force.

 

I then added a set of passenger riding pegs by DiamondR Accessories. I also tightened these so I could flip them in the straight position. This way, my little riders had a place to set their feet instead of dangle them.

 

The foot rest and armrests gave protection against rolling off seat should they doze off, yet not locked them in should I go down.

 

Attached is picture from 2005 of my then 8 year old son with me at Rolling Thunder. You can see the armrests and foot pegs I mentioned.

 

Edited March 30, 2015 by Venturous

[Chaharly]

I've ridden on the back with Dad for many, many miles. I think it helped to mold me into who I am today and I think it is great to get kids into travel rather than video games and TV.

 

I think after a few short rides your confidence will go up along with her experience and I think you'll have a great time

[Brenner]

Thanks all, it really is appreciated and I am listening. My original plans to take her were not until I had a few months and quite a few miles under my belt and yes on roads that I already know well. Even with me moving up to this larger bike I plan to start to learn to ride and test this bike the same way I did my first ride. I start out on short rides and gradually make the trips a little larger and larger until I feel I can trust myself and the bike as I honestly believe we have to be as one (the bike and I). I do want to take a long trip but I really do not think it is in the cards as I feel I would prefer to take the time to learn so much more. I would like to learn this bike well this year and attempt to pull a trailer. I am assuming it is different than pulling with a 4, 6, or 18 wheeled vehicle. Yes I have my truck license and have driven many different vehicles and combinations but I do really feel a bike would be different. Remember this bike I have has been a junk yard dog or so to say as it is made of multiple bikes and the conversions or upgrades will effect the way the bike handles and or the characteristics and reliability of the bike so I do believe I need to learn this bike and its quirks and or shortfalls. I express my concerns on reality and like to think I realize that anything can happen and at times does. I prefer this approach rather than thinking I am above these concerns and chance myself on having an accident or causing injury. Look on the roads today too many people think they are above the possibility of this and the accident and death ratio prove this. If people took responsibility, educated themselves properly, and were accountable for their actions the world would be a much better and easier place to live. This is my belief.

[cowpuc]

I have spent an enormous amount of time crossing this country on a motorcycle with my kids in tow since they were very young. Our lives have been positively and deeply affected by these adventures in ways that are almost unheard of in todays times. For some reason, when the interplay that happens between a rider and his motorcycle includes a willing child - magic happens!! Now if you spread that thought across the natural, almost divine, connection between a Father and his daughter (my son rode many miles with me too but it seems like there is something different about the connection between a Dad and his daughter(s) ) amazing relationships are born!! I say all of that so you, Brenner, understand that I REALLY do understand what this whole thread is all about!!

As hard as this is for me to say, and NOTHING against you or anybody else, knowing what I know about road tripping on a motorcycle with a young girl in tow,, I would advise against it as long as it involved a girl child who was not my actual daughter.. There are just way to many things that can happen.

An area of concern, IMHO, are how Laws and Law Enforcement have gotten so sticky over the years. An example of this is it used to be that if a person on a bike had to go pee pee really bad, you could just pull off the road, find a tree and go.. Now adays, if the wrong person see's you, and wants to cause you some BIG trouble, they can and they do!! That goes for children in your custody too - they do the "crime" - you do the time!! I have heard of folks now being placed on the "Sexual Offenders" list just because their young child went pee pee outside and when questioned about it, mentioned that he had seen his Daddy do this with his Dad ending up with some healthy legal bills and a quick trip to the list.. If something like this happened and you had a child (especially of the girl type and she was not your daughter) with you,, Lord only knows what might happen.. This is just the tip of the ice berg of things that I see having the potential of happening Bren.. Please KNOW that I am NOT implying anything wrong in what you are suggesting - I TOTALLY get it..

Now if we were talking about you adding a side car, taking the child AND your wife along on a cross country tour.. HECK YEA!!!!!

All that said,, THAT is just my opinion! If you decide that you are going forward with the ride,, remember that children dont see things like you and I. Cater the rides to her liking, I used to place an old couch cushion between my kids and I when they were little. Then I would lean against it and it would hold them clamped in place. You can get creative with a cushion - cut it to the correct height it can have "pockets" sliced in it for packs of Green Skiddles and Gummy Worms (if my daughters were sitting here next me reading this they would start crying from the memories of this - HAPPY TEARS) and even a place for a water bottle and her very own cheap little digital camera. My kids would sleep for hours back there with either their head laying on the edge of the cushion or leaned back on the bedroll on top of the truck, (thankfully) we never even had a near miss.. Personally, I have always been one that likes to lean on my riders - I like the contact because it constantly lets me know what they are doing.. Perhaps that is one of the really great things I LOVE about my 1st Gens is that they actually seem to have a little less room between riders and seem a little more conducive to leaning on each other instead of using a back rest..

This is a good thread - THANKS for having the guts to post it up - LOTS TO THINK ABOUT!!

Edited March 31, 2015 by cowpuc