A little regret and or remorse

[Brenner]

I know this might start some debate but for three days now I have had regret/remorse and am trying to figure out how to satisfy my needs or make this feeling disappear. I have been working on my ground up project and stalled during the paint process due to some problems that I am working through. So I decided to turn a few wrenchs and get the bike up and running and ready to ride for this upcoming month when my insurance expires on my current ride. Well my project xvz1200 has a pair of slash cut stainless exhaust pipes on it that some have claimed to be Jardine and some pics I have seen look like a MAC exhaust setup. These pipes came with my project and I honestly have not really thought anything aside from the bike will sound tough and I will enjoy it. Well now comes the regret, I put my bike together naked and synced the carbs and had it running and the more I dialed it in obviously the smoother it ran and once set to spec I was able to take it for a very small ride in my driveway (under 150' each way) to test the second gen gears under load. Well it hit me on the fifth or sixth pass, the bike does not sound like anything I am used to. It was like I was slapped in the face and I instantly had remorse that I ended up riding it back into the shop and have not touched it since. That evening my wife came home and could tell I was not overly happy but I didn't tell her what it was. She wanted to go out and I had to grab something from the garage so she followed me and I ended up starting the bike so she could hear the progress as she never heard it run before. Instantly she commented she knew why I was in my mood and could tell I would not be happy with the sound of the bike. She told me as long as she has know me 20+ years I have never had a vehicle that has not had a different sound or appearance or something different to make it stand out from another vehicle like it. She told me she felt bad as she knows I mainly moved up to the venture so she could ride the back and we could ride distances more comfortably. I told her not to worry and that I would try to make it sound tougher or like a more aggressive bike. So I would like to ask does anyone have experience or know of a way to make this bike sound tougher? I do not want an overly loud bike as it would defeat this bikes purpose but I would like to change the tone and if possible have a deep exhaust note. I am not unrealistic and expecting it to sound like a v-twin but rather something to make it throatier. Example I am not a fan of the sound the tuner cars now at days but rather love the sound of muscle cars. I prefer torque over horsepower and am not a fan of a high reving engine. I know probably not the right choice of bike for that sound but I will have to make due as I cannot afford another bike or to start over again. I await your replies as I search online for Harley mufflers etc... on ebay as a possible solution.

[Venturous Randy]

In my 20 years messing with 1st gens, I have never seen Jardines that are slashcut. I have had Jardines on my bike for about 17 years and they are a more throaty sound, probably a little louder than before. My best description of the sound is more like a small block Chevy engine with glasspacks or turbo mufflers. They do not have that "tuner car" sound.

I have been paying attention to your posts and have even talked to you on the phone and the one thing that you keep bringing up is that you do not like high reving engines. I am not sure what you mean about high revs with an engine, whether it is 5,000 RPM's or 10,000 RPM's. If you are one of those people that think 5,000 RPM's is high reving, I don't think you are going to be happy with your 1st gen Venture and I don't think your Venture is going to be happy with you. These engines were built to be run at higher RPM's and if you ride it like a V-twin, you will probably be much more happy with a V-twin. The engine I pulled from my 83 had about 165,000 miles on it and I can not imagine how many times it saw 8,000 RPM's. These engines were built for higher RPM's and they were NOT built to be lugged around. These engines do not start producing decent torque until about 4,000 RPM's and I am afraid that to you, that is high RPM's

Randy

[BratmanXj]

You'll never get a V-Twin "rumble" from these bikes. The pipes that sounded deep and throaty on my buddies SE Harley sound good (a little "loopy") at Idle on my '99 but more like a wound out glass packed small block V-8 at speed. These engines are all about RPM and not really the low-end torque monsters, 3,000 to 5,500 RPM and the cruise nicely.

 

Do HD mufflers fit a 1st Gen 1200cc?

[Chaharly]

Brenner, if you're curious about changing the sound and are worried about what itll sound like hop on Youtube and look up RSV exhausts. I know its not the same bike, but it is generally the same engine and that should give you an idea for better sounds.

 

One thing about this bike that Randy was saying is its a high winding bike. I have no problem with it, and I believe after you put some miles on the girl you'll find that you'll have no problem bringing her up to 6 maybe even 7 grand. I've never had a problem redlining ANY of my ventures, and to me its what randy says, it sounds and dare I say feels like a souped up small block chevy!

 

I hope that you enjoy your ride either way man, it'd be a shame to do all that work and not spend a little time getting to love 7k

[Brenner]

Food for thought and thank you from all who replied. Yes I am aware that this engine will not sound like a twin and not foolish thinking mufflers will change that. No I am not used to the short stroke rpm limits as they remind me of a tuner car which I prefer a muscle car. I like heavy flywheeled engines which make torque and I like the pull at low end not having to crank up the rpm to get that pull. I like cable clutches that you can feel the clutch and not the soft feeling of the hydraulic clutch. I like road feel so I ran progressive springs as recommended to reduce the cloud feel. Will I adapt? Time will tell and I guess this bike will dictate what choices I make in the future in regards to motorcycles. Am I knocking these bikes? Not a chance they are great at what they are but I suppose I am trying to make it suit me. I will never ride a crotch rocket and I honestly like the looks of a second gen much better but I build what I find and what I can currently afford. I had a choice of Honda or Yamaha and I chose the venture over the goldwing and have no regrets as I prefer the higher ride height, the v4 over the flat 4 and in my opinion the venture is more to my taste than the goldwing. Rosie1965 has posted a video of his bike with roadking exhaust in first gen tech talk forum. I am so pleased as I was considering customizing a harley muffler to change the sound to my liking and with his video I truly feel I was heading in the right direction. I really love the sound of his bike, it gives the inspiration that I am looking for. It sounds tough and not overly loud that can be ridden respectfully but when rolling the throttle you hear it coming. I am not trying to impress others with sound or paint or not jumping on the "I own the fastest bike" bandwagon but rather trying to come up with a ride that I can be happy within legal speed limits that will do what I want it to, and that does not look like every other bike that rolled off the same assembly line. This is not knocking the product or anyone who finds the stock form appealing, just that if there were a line up of bikes together I would be able to spot mine without even trying. Customization is like beauty in the eye of the beholder, dare to be a little different. Lots of different people on this forum and different mods to their bikes. I think that over the months I have been reading and noting other peoples customizations I might have expected too much from this project in regards to suiting me. I can only blame myself for possibly setting the bar too high in my expectations of this machine. I will know in the near future if it will work for me or not as it is just about ready for the road as I have signed my safety certification and am ready to plate it for this upcoming season. I just need to finish some difficult paint issues and final assembly then I will post pics of the final product. This is a learning curve in motorcycles for me as it will be my second bike I have ever insured and rode.

[Brenner]

In my 20 years messing with 1st gens, I have never seen Jardines that are slashcut. I have had Jardines on my bike for about 17 years and they are a more throaty sound, probably a little louder than before. My best description of the sound is more like a small block Chevy engine with glasspacks or turbo mufflers. They do not have that "tuner car" sound.

I have been paying attention to your posts and have even talked to you on the phone and the one thing that you keep bringing up is that you do not like high reving engines. I am not sure what you mean about high revs with an engine, whether it is 5,000 RPM's or 10,000 RPM's. If you are one of those people that think 5,000 RPM's is high reving, I don't think you are going to be happy with your 1st gen Venture and I don't think your Venture is going to be happy with you. These engines were built to be run at higher RPM's and if you ride it like a V-twin, you will probably be much more happy with a V-twin. The engine I pulled from my 83 had about 165,000 miles on it and I can not imagine how many times it saw 8,000 RPM's. These engines were built for higher RPM's and they were NOT built to be lugged around. These engines do not start producing decent torque until about 4,000 RPM's and I am afraid that to you, that is high RPM's

Randy

 

 

 

Randy, yes I remember you very well and still have your number. On my current bike (virago) if I choose to ride the speed limit at 100 km/h = 60 mph my bike revs at 4000- 4500 rpm depending on load, wind and terrain. My torque curve is very different on that bike and I would prefer it run at 3500 rpm so it is not "buzzing". This is what I mean about high revving for example if I run 60 mph and the venture is revving 6000 rpm or up then I would be unhappy and consider it a problem as I am hoping it will rev at about 4000 hopefully no more but I won't know until I ride it to test it out. I have not had the advantage of riding this bike before the build so I really do not know what to expect. Just by riding it in the driveway I can feel the torque difference and realize I need to wind it out more to get the power than what I would in a long stroke motor. I do not think I will lug the motor but rather find where it it is comfortably pulling itself with no stress, running efficiently, and not buzzing it as it comes naturally to me with my mechanical skills. I see crotch rockets cranking up the rpm and tuner cars screaming their engines and this is something that I really do not like the sound of. Yes I see Harley riders and big block cars do it too but I want to enjoy the ride and not have to wind it up to get where I am going. I do not care how fast ones ride is as they can only go so fast before they are violating the law and endangering lives. I chose motorcycles riding to calm myself and an engine revving at 6000-8000 rpm cruising will not calm me.

[Marcarl]

Ahhhh you got the right scooter there Brenner,,,, this baby will take you around town and purr doing it. It doesn't mind 5th in town and will quietly leave the limits of peoples homes with barely a buzz,, but once you get to that road that calls for,,,,, let me goooooooooo,,,, then drop a gear or two,,,, grab a handful of the 'twist and go' annnnnd,,,,,, sitdown,shutup,and hangon. You might even be able to keep up with a Spyder.

[Chaharly]

Randy, yes I remember you very well and still have your number. On my current bike (virago) if I choose to ride the speed limit at 100 km/h = 60 mph my bike revs at 4000- 4500 rpm depending on load, wind and terrain. My torque curve is very different on that bike and I would prefer it run at 3500 rpm so it is not "buzzing". This is what I mean about high revving for example if I run 60 mph and the venture is revving 6000 rpm or up then I would be unhappy and consider it a problem as I am hoping it will rev at about 4000 hopefully no more but I won't know until I ride it to test it out. I have not had the advantage of riding this bike before the build so I really do not know what to expect. Just by riding it in the driveway I can feel the torque difference and realize I need to wind it out more to get the power than what I would in a long stroke motor. I do not think I will lug the motor but rather find where it it is comfortably pulling itself with no stress, running efficiently, and not buzzing it as it comes naturally to me with my mechanical skills. I see crotch rockets cranking up the rpm and tuner cars screaming their engines and this is something that I really do not like the sound of. Yes I see Harley riders and big block cars do it too but I want to enjoy the ride and not have to wind it up to get where I am going. I do not care how fast ones ride is as they can only go so fast before they are violating the law and endangering lives. I chose motorcycles riding to calm myself and an engine revving at 6000-8000 rpm cruising will not calm me.

 

At 60 my bike runs around 3700 and you can't even feel or hear it

[videoarizona]

Brenner, I feel your pain....

 

I have had the same feelings, coming from a vtwin world. But gotta say, the more time I put in the saddle the more impressed I am with the 1st Gen. I wish I could explain how nice it is to be riding with some HD guys and gals and they twist the throttles and I leave them in the dust. Yea they are noisier, but I have stock, quiet POWER! I can't even hear my bike running when I'm sitting at a light next to these guys! But from being embarrassed... to now being impressed...it's been a year of adjustment.

 

So hang in there... and I hope you come to enjoy the handling and smooth, quiet sounds of a Venture running 4 grand on the tach and knowing that a quick twist and downshift will put you in century land quicker than.......(Yikes!)

 

david

[Brenner]

Thanks guys sometimes all I need is a little reassurance that I am headed in the right direction when I am in the dark of a project and can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. I am second guessing myself as again I do not know what to expect but with these replies it gives me a little spark of inspiration. If I was able to ride it down the road and size it up for myself I would be able to answer my own questions but it will not be insured until April and until then I have to finish it so it looks respectable. I am not happy with the paint as I have had a few issues and made a few mistakes but I am no painter and teaching myself as I go along. Some of my intended add ons will have to wait until I have more patience and made a final decision to install them. I will still be looking for a low priced set of harley pipes as I honestly love the sound of them on this engine but who knows once I get this beast on the road and open them up maybe I will change my mind. I really do not know what to expect with the different gear sets I have run.